Reformationist
Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Thanks!
I agree. If grace is earned, it ceases to be grace and becomes a debt to God. It becomes the wages of our obedience.
God bless
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does baptism save???
- Thread starter new2calvin
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Thanks!
I agree. If grace is earned, it ceases to be grace and becomes a debt to God. It becomes the wages of our obedience.
God bless
If you want to understand the necessity of baptism in the NT you have to see the importance God placed on water in the OT. The OT was the "school master" to bring us to christ.
The OT is full of types of baptism, and in each instance, the water washed away the sin just as Paul claimed it would in Acts 22:16. Consider the children of Israel when they went through the Red Sea. The bible says they passed through the sea but the Egyptians were not able to do it because they did not do it in faith. The Egyptians represented sin and bondange who were "washed away" with the water. Noah, built an ark and saved him and his family by obeying the voice of God. Again, the sin was washed away by water. The last example I offer is the tabernacle in the OT that God had moses build according to strict instruction. The OT tabernacle was a type of our salvation today. There was the brazen altar for the sacrafice for sins. After killing the animal the priest were commanded to wash lest they "die". There was no skipping the water washing before the priest could go into the holy place or the Holy of Holies.(Exodus 30:20-21)
The bible is plain about the importance of baptism and even commands us to be baptized (Acts 10:48).
Many people read Romans 4 and use that as proof text that we do not have to lift a finger to be saved that Jesus did it all for us. Jesus did do all the work and it is grace alone through faith that saves, but the faith the saves us is NOT alone. God has always commanded response to His word which was the true sign that the hearers had faith. Faith without works is dead. Faith ALWAYS manifests itself by action. You cannot have one without the other. Again, we are saved by faith alone, but the fact that God's word compels us and prompts us to obey His command to be baptized does not make it "works" for salvation. It's all God that is moving us. Does not this agree with the scripture that it is God who works in us according to His will? How then can I take any credit for His grace that is moving me to repentance and water baptism? I can't.
Is faith for salvation a mental assent or understanding that I carry in my head or heart? If that's what the bible teaches, then so be it. But if it teaches that faith/belief ALWAYS manifests itself in action - and I believe it does - then we must believe the bible. Put another way, we are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone i.e. there is always a response or action associated with it. Hebrews 11, the faith chapter, supports this definition of faith/belief. Would Noah have been saved if he didn't move with fear and build the ark? To say I have faith and not appropriate and apply God's word is not faith. There is no such thing.
Romans 10:16 makes the point that exactly validates what I'm saying. They did not "believe" because if they had, the would have "obeyed the gospel". Faith and obedience are inseparably linked so that you can never have one without the other. If a man has faith/belief in the gospel he will repent and be baptized the way we are commaned to be. This also agrees with all the accounts of baptism in Acts. When they heard the gospel and "believed" it, they were immediately baptized. Why? Because it was commanded by God that we be born of the Water and the Spirit.
Romans 4 speaks of faith/belief without the deeds of the law, yes. But that is not saying that there is no action taken on our part to receive God's salvation. The key is whether you think your works are saving you or whether your faith in God manifested in obedience is saving you. That is the point of Romans 4. The Pharisees still believed it was their actions saving them and not faith in God. They were already shown how they could never completely do all the law. We obey God's commands and are baptized because it is required by God but our faith is in God and what HE has done, not what I am doing. Don't you see?
When Abraham was justified before circumcision, circumcision was not a requirement yet. Yet the scriptures plainly tell us that by faith he left His homeland, believed God's promises and obeyed God's voice. And it was because of this obedience that God performed his promises for Abraham.(Genesis 22:18, 26:4-5 Heb 11:8).
I'll finish with this story from the bible which illustrates what I am talking about. Naaman was a Captian of the Host of Syria who had leprosy in the OT. He went to the prophet to be healed of his condition. The problem was, he was prideful and when God told the prophet what to tell Naaman so he could be healed, he didn't want to do it because he felt it was beneath him. God had told him to go wash himself in the Jordan river 7 times. In the end, he did it and was healed. Why was he healed? There was nothing majical about the water. He was healed because he obeyed Gods instruction and that was the way God chose to cleanse him. Its the same with baptism.
I'm sure this will stir up a hornets nest and I'm not trying to be confrontational but this is the truth of God's word.
The OT is full of types of baptism, and in each instance, the water washed away the sin just as Paul claimed it would in Acts 22:16. Consider the children of Israel when they went through the Red Sea. The bible says they passed through the sea but the Egyptians were not able to do it because they did not do it in faith. The Egyptians represented sin and bondange who were "washed away" with the water. Noah, built an ark and saved him and his family by obeying the voice of God. Again, the sin was washed away by water. The last example I offer is the tabernacle in the OT that God had moses build according to strict instruction. The OT tabernacle was a type of our salvation today. There was the brazen altar for the sacrafice for sins. After killing the animal the priest were commanded to wash lest they "die". There was no skipping the water washing before the priest could go into the holy place or the Holy of Holies.(Exodus 30:20-21)
The bible is plain about the importance of baptism and even commands us to be baptized (Acts 10:48).
Many people read Romans 4 and use that as proof text that we do not have to lift a finger to be saved that Jesus did it all for us. Jesus did do all the work and it is grace alone through faith that saves, but the faith the saves us is NOT alone. God has always commanded response to His word which was the true sign that the hearers had faith. Faith without works is dead. Faith ALWAYS manifests itself by action. You cannot have one without the other. Again, we are saved by faith alone, but the fact that God's word compels us and prompts us to obey His command to be baptized does not make it "works" for salvation. It's all God that is moving us. Does not this agree with the scripture that it is God who works in us according to His will? How then can I take any credit for His grace that is moving me to repentance and water baptism? I can't.
Is faith for salvation a mental assent or understanding that I carry in my head or heart? If that's what the bible teaches, then so be it. But if it teaches that faith/belief ALWAYS manifests itself in action - and I believe it does - then we must believe the bible. Put another way, we are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone i.e. there is always a response or action associated with it. Hebrews 11, the faith chapter, supports this definition of faith/belief. Would Noah have been saved if he didn't move with fear and build the ark? To say I have faith and not appropriate and apply God's word is not faith. There is no such thing.
Romans 10:16 makes the point that exactly validates what I'm saying. They did not "believe" because if they had, the would have "obeyed the gospel". Faith and obedience are inseparably linked so that you can never have one without the other. If a man has faith/belief in the gospel he will repent and be baptized the way we are commaned to be. This also agrees with all the accounts of baptism in Acts. When they heard the gospel and "believed" it, they were immediately baptized. Why? Because it was commanded by God that we be born of the Water and the Spirit.
Romans 4 speaks of faith/belief without the deeds of the law, yes. But that is not saying that there is no action taken on our part to receive God's salvation. The key is whether you think your works are saving you or whether your faith in God manifested in obedience is saving you. That is the point of Romans 4. The Pharisees still believed it was their actions saving them and not faith in God. They were already shown how they could never completely do all the law. We obey God's commands and are baptized because it is required by God but our faith is in God and what HE has done, not what I am doing. Don't you see?
When Abraham was justified before circumcision, circumcision was not a requirement yet. Yet the scriptures plainly tell us that by faith he left His homeland, believed God's promises and obeyed God's voice. And it was because of this obedience that God performed his promises for Abraham.(Genesis 22:18, 26:4-5 Heb 11:8).
I'll finish with this story from the bible which illustrates what I am talking about. Naaman was a Captian of the Host of Syria who had leprosy in the OT. He went to the prophet to be healed of his condition. The problem was, he was prideful and when God told the prophet what to tell Naaman so he could be healed, he didn't want to do it because he felt it was beneath him. God had told him to go wash himself in the Jordan river 7 times. In the end, he did it and was healed. Why was he healed? There was nothing majical about the water. He was healed because he obeyed Gods instruction and that was the way God chose to cleanse him. Its the same with baptism.
I'm sure this will stir up a hornets nest and I'm not trying to be confrontational but this is the truth of God's word.
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Reformationist
Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Yes, be baptized. However, sin is never washed away by water. It is only through the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ that we are redeemed.
We do not lift a finger to be saved. If we had to that would mean that God needs us to complete the work of Christ on the cross. Our sanctification, however, is an ongoing process, dependant on God's continuing action in our lives, and consisting of our continuous struggle against sin. Our salvation, however, is exclusively God's work.
God bless
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"If grace is earned, it ceases to be grace and becomes a debt to God. It becomes the wages of our obedience."
Yup, that's right, just like confession with the mouth, its important, but not nessisary for salvation or mutes would be "screwed".
Yup, that's right, just like confession with the mouth, its important, but not nessisary for salvation or mutes would be "screwed".
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