Sex Before Marriage (confused)

Memory's Flame · Dec 6, 2002

This is a rather touchy subject, but one I feel I must bring up :help:

[SHADOW=purple]First Some Background[/SHADOW]

I was raised Lutheran from the day I was born. I have two very loving parents who raide me in the church and taught me to love god. In Junior High I seperated myself from the church.  (and have been struggling ever since to come back) My boyfriend, who I love very much, and I have been together for almost seven years now. Our relationship has had it's ups and downs, but we are very much in love

 [SHADOW=deeppink]Now For the Problem[/SHADOW]

This past August Ryan and I moved in together. I discussed this heavily with my parents, my family, my pastor at church and friends. I feel this was the right decision as I love him. Now here's where many of you will probably disagree with me. We have a very sexual relationship. It's not so much sexual as "making love" and we discuss this often. I have actually discussed this with my pastor back home (10 hours away) and he and I have had many conversations over this.

I strongly feel that I am doing nothing wrong. I love Ryan, he loves me and we plan on someday marrying (legally in the state of Colorado where we live we are Common Law MarrieD) and I feel that my relationship with God is growning since we have been together, because I feel closer to him. HOWEVER. I don't think he has something against our sexual relationship; I think that he sees our side and understands...although many of you probably disagree.

 

seebs · Dec 6, 2002

I guess I'm not clear on why you're bringing this up; looking to start a fun debate, or asking advice about a problem you forgot to mention? What do you mean by "plan on marrying"; you're legally married, you seem to feel you have a relationship that God blesses... What part of "marriage" do you feel you haven't done?

BTW, in case no one else says it: I'm glad you're happy, and I am sure God is happy too.

Memory's Flame · Dec 6, 2002

Maybe I should have better explained...

We are "common law" married; which is considered a legal marriage in Colorado. But have not said vows in a church.

I have been reading about how many people here are against "sex before marriage" and felt the need to question my own actions; as well as share my views

Amy · Dec 6, 2002

Since you are legally married, Jacque, I'd think "sex before marriage" topic does not apply. Some Christians go and get married in court, and then confirm their vows in a church later. I personally wouldn't do that, but that still makes the two people legally and officially married.

God bless,

Amy

seebs · Dec 6, 2002

Originally posted by JacqueB
Maybe I should have better explained...

We are "common law" married; which is considered a legal marriage in Colorado. But have not said vows in a church.

I have been reading about how many people here are against "sex before marriage" and felt the need to question my own actions; as well as share my views

Don't get too caught up second-guessing yourself; in the worst case, you're sinning, just like everyone else, and your sins will be forgiven.

Many people have never had the chance to say vows in a church, and saying vows in a church is not enough to marry you; it sounds like you're married in your heart, which is what God generally cares about.

Mr.Cheese · Dec 7, 2002

The danger is that a sexual relationship or a physical relationship bypasses the foundation builders. It becomes the foundation of the relationship. it dominates the relationship. Sex is the icing on the cake. When the relationship is all icing, problems are going to arise eventually. I think this happens to a lot of people.
Your situation is interesting. Wanting or desiring someone is not bad. A lot of people thing that messing around is evil. Well, no, it's normal for two people to want to do that. But there is a time and place for it.

I highly recommend a book, which you'll have to dig for because it is out of print, called "Solomon on Sex." It was written by someone with the last name of Dillow.
Fantastic book.

KeepTheFaith15 · Dec 7, 2002

i personally dont agree with sex before marriage because thats not the way god intended it to be.

DeputyDan · Dec 7, 2002

Mr. Cheese points out a very real fact. You should take it to heart.

Also, why not get married? Perhaps your relationship isn't as strong as you think and you are afraid to bring it up or Mr. Right may leave? Don't know just asking?

HesMyAll · Dec 7, 2002

God has a word for sex outside of marriage...its called fornication, and the Bible says to flee fornication.

God is not going to judge us by how we feel about it but by what His word says about it.

Mr Cheese made a very valid point.  Without that commitment between you, the young man, and God, your relationship is based on sex.  Sex has never been a very strong foundation to build a relationship on.

 

cynjo59 · Dec 7, 2002

Originally posted by Hesmyall
God has a word for sex outside of marriage...its called fornication, and the Bible says to flee fornication.

God is not going to judge us by how we feel about it but by what His word says about it.

Mr Cheese made a very valid point.  Without that commitment between you, the young man, and God, your relationship is based on sex.  Sex has never been a very strong foundation to build a relationship on.

 

I have to stand with Hesmyall on this one. God states firmly His position on and his definition of fornication. What happens when children enter this relationship? What happens when one or the other of you meets someone else- there is no binding committment. What happens if this isn't the man God intended for you and then you meet the one He did intend? I certainly do not condemn you- I understand your position, having been in a somewhat similar situation. Even though I married the guy and am still married to him I do wish that I had waited til actual marriage before giving myself sexually.

Athlon4all · Dec 7, 2002

The danger is that a sexual relationship or a physical relationship bypasses the foundation builders.

Exactly. The kind of love that the world promotes which is centered around sex/kissing/etc, is self-centered love, not the true agape love described in I Corinthians 13. I would encourage you to stop the sexual part of your relationship. Because 1. right now, it seems that you are walking a very thin line between not sex and sex (which honestly, I think sexual contact of any kind outside of marriage is agains the bible), and the Bible teaches that, if you aren't going to divorce, once you have sex with another, you are married to him (Exodus 22:16 says "And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. "). '
2. You really need to exam,ine your relationship to see if it is based on the world's "if it feels good to you it's love" kind of love, rather than the true love that God has for, us and is described in I Corinthians 13:4-8a "Love suffers long and is kind, love does not envy, love does not parade itself, is not puffed up, does not behave rudely, does not seek its own (that's a big thing IMHO), is not provoked, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in inquity, but rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things, love never fails"

Memory's Flame · Dec 7, 2002

Let me clarify a few things...

We are not married because we don't have the money to have a wedding just yet. I'm not afraid that he'll leave, we've been together for seven years...

But marriage is a touchy subject... we are "Common Law" married, and plan on marrying as soon as we can save up enough money to have a "proper" wedding (we don't want our parents to pay for it.)

As for sex being the basis of the relationship; it is FAR more than that... we love each other VERY much and are best friends first, lovers second.

seebs · Dec 7, 2002

Well, I'm afraid I can't help much; it sounds to me like you've got your stuff in order.

HesMyAll · Dec 7, 2002

Originally posted by JacqueB
Let me clarify a few things...

We are not married because we don't have the money to have a wedding just yet. I'm not afraid that he'll leave, we've been together for seven years...

But marriage is a touchy subject... we are "Common Law" married, and plan on marrying as soon as we can save up enough money to have a "proper" wedding (we don't want our parents to pay for it.)

As for sex being the basis of the relationship; it is FAR more than that... we love each other VERY much and are best friends first, lovers second.

Does God recognize your "common law" marriage?  Jesus attended a "wedding feast".  A marriage occurs when 2 people make vows to one another and to God.  The Bible also says to obey the laws of the land.  Where I live common law marriage is no longer recognized.  Things can get too sticky from a legal stand point where there has not been documentation of the marriage.

seebs · Dec 7, 2002

Originally posted by Hesmyall
Does God recognize your "common law" marriage?

"common law" marriages are themselves a reflection of a social tradition rooted in the understanding that people became married before God, even in times when no priest were available.

KeepTheFaith15 · Dec 7, 2002

im afraid your not gonna get too many agreements on this one girl many think it's against god's word to have sex before marriage, and im one of them i mean why rush the marriage. give it time and you shouldnt even be lovers second, you shouldnt be lovers at all till your married.

HesMyAll · Dec 7, 2002

Originally posted by seebs
"common law" marriages are themselves a reflection of a social tradition rooted in the understanding that people became married before God, even in times when no priest were available.

They may be a reflection of social tradition but even in biblical times they had WEDDINGS.  I don't think God is going to judge us by our social traditions.  He's going to judge us by His word.  His word says that sex outside of marriage is fornication.

When Jesus met the woman at the well he told her to go and get her husband.  She said she had no husband.  Jesus said she had spoken right; and that she had had five husbands and the one she had now was not her husband.  She could have called it a common law marriage but she couldn't lie to the Lord.

seebs · Dec 7, 2002

Originally posted by Hesmyall
They may be a reflection of social tradition but even in biblical times they had WEDDINGS.  I don't think God is going to judge us by our social traditions.  He's going to judge us by His word.  His word says that sex outside of marriage is fornication.

Actually, the specific definition of "fornication" changes with social norms over time.

The thing is, "weddings" aren't what make you married.

When Jesus met the woman at the well he told her to go and get her husband.  She said she had no husband.  Jesus said she had spoken right; and that she had had five husbands and the one she had now was not her husband.  She could have called it a common law marriage but she couldn't lie to the Lord.

That's not what I think this tells us; what it tells us is that what people *think* is a "marriage" is maybe not always a marriage.

There are people who have had wedding ceremonies, and who are not married in God's eyes, and there are people who have had no ceremony, but who *are* married in God's eyes. God cares about what's in our hearts, not which civil authorities have our signatures on file.

We were (well, I was, anyway) raised in a culture where we assume that marriage is a civil institution, or a church one. It's neither; it's a relationship between two people and God.

HesMyAll · Dec 7, 2002

God's definition of fornication NEVER changed.  I don't think He is going to judge us according to our "social norms".  Weddings are a ceremony where a man and a woman publicly acknowledge their convenant with each other and with God.  

People who have had wedding ceremonies are married.  They made covenant vows before man and God.  To say that God would not consider them married is to give someone an excuse to go ahead and get divorced if they decide they no longer want to be married. 

People really should be careful what they vow.  The Bible says to pay what you vow.  Not look for an excuse to get out of it.

Originally posted by seebs
Actually, the specific definition of "fornication" changes with social norms over time.

The thing is, "weddings" aren't what make you married.

That's not what I think this tells us; what it tells us is that what people *think* is a "marriage" is maybe not always a marriage.

There are people who have had wedding ceremonies, and who are not married in God's eyes, and there are people who have had no ceremony, but who *are* married in God's eyes. God cares about what's in our hearts, not which civil authorities have our signatures on file.

We were (well, I was, anyway) raised in a culture where we assume that marriage is a civil institution, or a church one. It's neither; it's a relationship between two people and God.

Rising_Suns · Dec 7, 2002

Have the two of you ever had a long period of time where you both concsiously and consistently restrained yourselves from sex?

See, this is how "no sex before marriage" builds your relationship. By consciously restraining yourselves from sexual relations, you build the control and will power over your impulses with each other, making your marriage much more healthy and pure...Because when you are married, you should not have sex whenever YOU feel like it. You should only have sex when both of you want to in the passion of a moment (not like waking the other person up in the middle of the night). So if you have been trained to restrain yourself, you won't go downhill by smothering the other person sexually (this goes for men mostly). One day you could find yourself having sex and not making love. It's good to prepare for that not to happen.

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