Hi Scott. I'm a bit disappointed that you folded so quickly.
They are not entirely different. I would say that less than 5% of doctrine is different.
Balderdash! Contradictions and conflicts about, Scott! Modern Christians violently disagree on issues of soteriology, eschatology, epistemology, pneumatology, harmatiology - you name it. Heck, the guy who runs these forums doesn't even believe that Preterists are "orthodox"! Sheesh!
quote:
That would make God "the author of confusion", and the Bible says He isn't.
No it wouldn't. Man is responsible for that.
Exactly. Man is responsible for it, which means that
I should not believe everyone who claims that the Holy Spirit resides in him.
But if I show the FRUITS of the SPIRIT...then it is shown.
But if
I also show the fruits of the spirit... what then? You'll have a bit of a problem, won't you?
You do know that Christadelphianism is not an orthodox system of theology, right?
No, I know nothing of the kind. What I
do know, is that Christadelphians believe exactly as the 1st Century Christians did.
You guys do believe that:
Jesus had a sinful nature The Christadelphians, What They Believe, by Harry Tennant, The Christadelphian, England, p. 74 - this is a Christadelphian book.
Yep! And by the term "sinful nature", we believe that Christ
was capable of sin. We do
not believe that he
did sin, and we do
not believe in "Original Sin", so we do
not believe in "sin nature" as taught by mainstream Christianity. So when we say that Christ had "a sinful nature", we mean only that
he was capable of sin, but did no sin at all, and was therefore a perfect sacrifice for sin.
Curiously enough, many Trinitarians also believe that Christ was capable of sin.
Jesus needed salvation, (Christadelphian Answers, ed. by Frank G. Jannaway, The Herald Press, p. 25 - another Christadelphian book ).
Yep! He needed salvation
from death. That's why God
granted him immortality, remember? He had
done no sin, but he was
still mortal, so he had to be
saved from death.
And guess what? That's exactly what the Bible tells us...
Hebrews 5:7.
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared
He had to be
saved from death, and he
prayed for it with strong crying and tears. And he
was heard in that he feared.
Jesus is not God in flesh (Answers, p. 22).
Yep! We believe in "the man, Christ Jesus", as Paul calls him.
That Jesus' atonement was not substitutionary (Answers, p. 25; What They Believe, p. 71).
Yep! We believe that Christ's atonement was not a
substitute for us, but a
sacrifice for sin. He did not die as our
replacement, but as our
sacrifice.
And guess what? That's eaxctly what the Bible says:
Ephesians 5:2.
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savor.
There's not a single word in the Bible about Christ being our "substitute."
I have no interest in discussing theology with a Christadelphian, who doesn't even believe that Jesus Christ was the Word from the beginning.
That's a total cop-out.
If you'd like to start a thread showing how you are orthodox, you can begin one on the "unorthodox" thread. (Ironic, huh?)
Hah! Like you'd listen anyway!
Since we begin from different places, we won't agree on baptism.
No, that's a fallacy of equivocation. I begin from a different place to that of the Church of Christ guys, and I
still agree with them on baptism.
The fact that you deny the Holy Spirit indwells people is, well, sad, actually.
Well, I'm sorry that you feel this way, but I'd rather listen to Scripture than the words of men.
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
And just what makes you believe that this "spirit" is the Holy Spirit, matey?
Here, read this:
Romans 2:28-29.
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
The word "spirit" here refers to a
mental disposition; an attitude, or a frame of mind.
Ephesians 4:20-24.
But ye have not so learned Christ;
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The word "spirit" here refers to a
mental disposition; an attitude, or a frame of mind.
Philippians 1:27.
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
The word "spirit" here refers to a
mental disposition; an attitude, or a frame of mind.
It is exactly the same with your quote from
Romans 8. There is absolutely
no justification for claiming that the "spirit" referred to in
Romans 8:9, is the Holy Spirit. If anything, the very context itself militates against such an interpretation.
