Recognizing sodomites, thieves, and murderers are bad...

If you think that something is bad then you should voice your opinions.
However, you should be prepared for people to have differing opinions to you.

Following that you should be able to back up your claims.
It is demonstrable how theft and murder are damaging to society.
Homosexuality is a very different to these.

i'll agree with you on murder and stealing (who doesn't?) but for sodomy to be "bad" it would have to involve someone other than consenting adults. Otherwise they're not hurting anyone and it's none of my business.

Autumnleaf said:

It seems like there is a stigma to recognizing what is bad. This seems silly to me. If something is wrong we should speak and act against it to make it go away, so long as it is bad for society. Right?

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Who then gets to be the decider of what constitutes bad especially when it is something like sodomy which for most people is acceptable, a gray area for some and a crime worthy of death to others.

I suggest that you start by jailing heterosexuals having premarital sex. Then you must invade the homes of married heterosexuals who are having sex for any reason other than procreation. If people are having oral sex, that's sodomy - again, off to jail. And we will throw all the gay people in there as well. And then once we have jailed the majority of the population, we will have no more room more murderers, and thieves, so then, rather than tolerate people living their lives in their own homes, you will have people whose crimes do not exist unless they have a victim to kill or steal from, and if you are the last person left, guess who's gettting a bullet in the head just to take your flat screen TV?

And you think that is a good idea?

I don't understand this: the people that claim that they don't want Big Government want the government to invade even our private sexual lives.
You don't get anymore Big Government than that.

Beanieboy said:

I suggest that you start by jailing heterosexuals having premarital sex. Then you must invade the homes of married heterosexuals who are having sex for any reason other than procreation. If people are having oral sex, that's sodomy - again, off to jail. And we will throw all the gay people in there as well. And then once we have jailed the majority of the population, we will have no more room more murderers, and thieves, so then, rather than tolerate people living their lives in their own homes, you will have people whose crimes do not exist unless they have a victim to kill or steal from, and if you are the last person left, guess who's gettting a bullet in the head just to take your flat screen TV?

And you think that is a good idea?

I don't understand this: the people that claim that they don't want Big Government want the government to invade even our private sexual lives.
You don't get anymore Big Government than that.

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It is BY LAW that Gay Culture is being FORCED onto an unwilling populace.

GLBT's are seeking BIG government to force their sexual tastes be accepted BY LAW, by all.

You don't get anymore bigger goverment that that.

Autumnleaf said:

It seems like there is a stigma to recognizing what is bad. This seems silly to me. If something is wrong we should speak and act against it to make it go away, so long as it is bad for society. Right?

Click to expand...

HEY, wait a minute. ANOTHER gay thread?

What about:

Sojourner1
Society Team
On the journey home

Join Date: 27th January 2004
Location: California
Posts: 16,286
Blessings: 37,327 [Bless]
Blog Entries: 10
Reps: 1,427,113,777 (power: 1,427,134) Announcement on Homosexuality Threads
There have been many, many threads started in E&M on the topic of homosexuality in the last couple of weeks. The FSG's state:
From this point on the Society staff members will be closing or merging new threads that are created that are on the same topic of a thread that is currently open. If the topic is not being discussed then the thread will be allowed to stay open. For example, if any more threads are created on the topic of Proposition 8 they will be either closed or merged into a current thread on Prop. 8. We understand that there are different aspects on the topic homosexuality that could merit their own individual thread, but this aspect should be significantly different in order for the thread to remain and not be closed or merged with another.

If your thread is closed by staff you will receive a PM from a staff member and your thread will be closed by a mod hat explaining the reason for it's closure. If your thread is merged with another thread you will also receive a PM from staff letting you know that your thread was merged.

We will not be creating a subforum for Debates on Homosexuality in the E&M forum. We will be actively limiting the number of threads that are discussing this topic. You may ask any questions for clarification on this, but please do not use this thread to vent your frustration at staff or other members (groups of members) on this forum.

I was going to respond, then I thought: Wasn't there some sort of big announcement about these kind of threads...

Polycarp_fan said:

It is BY LAW that Gay Culture is being FORCED onto an unwilling populace.

GLBT's are seeking BIG government to force their sexual tastes be accepted BY LAW, by all.

You don't get anymore bigger goverment that that.

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No, by law we are being forced to accept them as equal individuals just like everyone else, who are free to pursue life and happiness and live in liberty.

It doesn't matter if you don't like their sexual tastes, some people don't like your religious tastes and they have to live with it as well.

They are no more "forcing" than blacks were forcing racists to accept them as equals under the law.

Polycarp_fan said:

It is BY LAW that Gay Culture is being FORCED onto an unwilling populace.

GLBT's are seeking BIG government to force their sexual tastes be accepted BY LAW, by all.

You don't get anymore bigger goverment that that.

Click to expand...

Your arguments are slowly deteriorating into hysterics.

Have you spoken with a therapist about your pathological need to misrepresent others' arguments in the exact way that makes you the most angry?

Polycarp_fan said:

It is BY LAW that Gay Culture is being FORCED onto an unwilling populace.

GLBT's are seeking BIG government to force their sexual tastes be accepted BY LAW, by all.

You don't get anymore bigger goverment that that.

Click to expand...

I was was wondering the same as Teddy KGB. Have you sought therapy? Because you should.


Immediately.

Slowly?
That's very generous of you.

Autumnleaf, I think we agree that thieves and murderers are bad because they harm others. Could you explain exactly how sodomites harm others?

Andreusz said:

Autumnleaf, I think we agree that thieves and murderers are bad because they harm others. Could you explain exactly how sodomites harm others?

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If you have pictures, please PM them.

Autumnleaf said:

It seems like there is a stigma to recognizing what is bad. This seems silly to me. If something is wrong we should speak and act against it to make it go away, so long as it is bad for society. Right?

Click to expand...

People try to give such little credit to Christians on this website that even recognizing rightfully vilainized vilains as bad has become hard to get done.

The devil was just a rational egoist...

Ryal Kane said:

If you think that something is bad then you should voice your opinions.
However, you should be prepared for people to have differing opinions to you.

Following that you should be able to back up your claims.
It is demonstrable how theft and murder are damaging to society.
Homosexuality is a very different to these.

Click to expand...

Well, it isn't.

And it doesn't even necessarily have to be purely damaging to society but also merely damaging to the person.

I do not want to be trendy but you can point out that when sodomy and sexual decadence entered most civilizations it did begin marking their downfalls.

Why?

The society forgets its most basic moral tenets.

Nathan45 said:

i'll agree with you on murder and stealing (who doesn't?) but for sodomy to be "bad" it would have to involve someone other than consenting adults. Otherwise they're not hurting anyone and it's none of my business.

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Do these people carry influence over the society?

Riddle me that.

What does their influence mean to society?

jmverville said:

And it doesn't even necessarily have to be purely damaging to society but also merely damaging to the person.

Click to expand...

Please explain how sodomy has damaged me.

jmverville said:

I do not want to be trendy but you can point out that when sodomy and sexual decadence entered most civilizations it did begin marking their downfalls.

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This is nonsense. Ancient Greek civilization lasted many centuries, and homosexual relations were considered acceptable, and often honorable (e.g. the Theban Band). The plains Indians recognized that some people were homosexual, and even had homosexual marriage (in what is today the USA!).

jmverville said:

Do these people carry influence over the society?

Riddle me that.

What does their influence mean to society?

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Well, some of the greatest artists, thinkers and inventors have been homosexual or bisexual: Socrates, Plato, Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Turing ... to name just a few. And if you admire military types, well, there's Frederick the Great and Alexander the Great. And lots and lots of ordinary homosexual people live productive and useful lives as doctors, nurses, educators, architects and in a thousand other professions.

In some ways, I think that society in general has become quite immoral. For example, I think the child sex trade overseas is downright nauseating. I think the fact that there is so much violence and rape in the United States, which is affluent, there is still poor in an abundant, even wasteful country, there are 1.4 uninsured citizens that can't afford a doctor when they are sick, is very wrong.

However, we have also shed a lot of past darkness. We no longer have slaves, nor think owning another, beating another, whipping another, hanging another, or raping another human being is ok simply because of their skin color. We haven't heard of a man who convinced everyone to work together to kill 6 Million Jews, and think what they were doing was ok.

So, I don't know if society is really eroding if we report more rape, or violence, or racism, because before, racism existed, but people thought it was ok. Even rape or child molestation often went unspoken because family did not want others to know, or did not go to the police. When blacks were lynched, again, it went unreported, because people convinced themselves that blacks, slaves, weren't a real man, but 3/5 of one. And I remember when gay bashing was common during the 80s, when guys would joke about taking baseball bats and going down to some cruising area to beat people. The "Gay Panic Defense" is slowly being seen for what it is - trying to justify murder, and pictures like this:

are seen for what they are: murderous hearts, not justified, not moral.

There is a hard to watch video: Licensed to Kill that looks at the issue of people who target gays to murder:

When we think about how society reinforces its laws, we usually think of law enforcement agencies doing what they're contracted to do in protecting people and property. But there are other kinds of laws and other kinds of enforcers. Arthur Dong's documentary Licensed to Kill explores the "laws" — sometimes written, sometimes simply understood — against homosexuality and the men who take it upon themselves to rid the world of what they've been trained to think of as a weak, disposable group — gay men. In this graphic look at a loose subculture of murderers of gays, Dong exposes not simply a group of rampaging sociopaths but, more importantly, a society that carefully creates them.

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It was especially hard for me, because I remember the murder that happened in Minneapolis, and how fearful people were, wondering if they would be next just walking home for the store.

So, while one may argue that acceptance of gays is a sign of the deterioration of a society, the murderous rage that was there before was no sign of morality. If the hatred is replaced by understanding, of compassion, of tolerance, or respect for the person simply because they are a human life, then I don't see that as a step downward.

jmverville said:

People try to give such little credit to Christians on this website that even recognizing rightfully vilainized vilains as bad has become hard to get done.

The devil was just a rational egoist...

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making up villainy to attack is not really worthy of bein recognized. much less praised

Well, it isn't.

And it doesn't even necessarily have to be purely damaging to society but also merely damaging to the person.

Click to expand...

can you even prove this nonsense? can you show that sodomy is damaging to society or people?
the only thing i can think of is the same nonsense that christianity has claimed for the last 2000 years, "it harms your soul"
that's it, only christians that accept that will find it persuasive, but they already believe it to begin with!

I do not want to be trendy but you can point out that when sodomy and sexual decadence entered most civilizations it did begin marking their downfalls.

Why?

The society forgets its most basic moral tenets.

Click to expand...

oh please, have you ever read any history that isn't written to make it look like "the gays did it"?
the roman empire did fine for what? 1500 years? plus the 500 were it wasn't an empire?
pederasty wasn't something they invented 100 years before the empire collapsed, so you can stop pretending that it wasn't around for 1500 years

Do these people carry influence over the society?

Riddle me that.

What does their influence mean to society?

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a lot of people, many of them that helped advance us to the point that we are at.
if it wasn't for a lot of the people that happened to practice what you seem to hate, we wouldn't be talking about this stuff in the comfort of our homes on computers

The interesting thing that I find about Christians when talking about "sodomy", and since we aren't talking about heterosexual sex, let's just call it what I believe was the OP's intent: gays and lesbians, that often, repenting of homosexuality seems to be the priority concern with these same Christians.

On another site, self proclaimed Christians would plead over and over, "Please, repent of your sin!" It was the one sin that they were concerned about. They didn't ask other heterosexuals if they were having premarital sex, oral sex, etc. It was only repenting from homosexuality that they were concerned about.

However, were I to be able to take a pill and suddenly become a heterosexual, I would still be a heterosexual Buddhist. When I brought this up, confused about why changing my sexual orientation, or at least, my sexual acts to those with people of the opposite sex more than making Jesus my Savior, they told me not to dodge the question.

And then they claimed to know God, to be a model of Christianity.

If no one is listening, it's because you are talking nonsense.

Please explain how sodomy has damaged me.

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Oh that's easy. Since you're gay, that means you're incredibly promiscous. It also means since you're having all this sex outside of marriage, you're unhappy. And I'm guessing you have a whole bunch of STD's?