Must the Temple of Jerusalem be Rebuilt?

Athaliamum

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I'm pretty sure that those references you have used to refer to the Torah as a yoke are completely out of context, this seems to be an issue for you LLJ (but not just you). It looks like you've just done a word search for the word "yoke" and flung it in pre-textual form to suit your needs.

"Therefore" is yet another qualifying word. Therefore, you need to include at the surrounding sentences in order to qualify it.

Deut 48:47 "Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee."

So the qualifying context is this: Because you haven't submitted to God out of a loving and happy heart but out of duty and following the motions without much thought, therefore He will put a yoke on your neck. It does not say that the Law of God, Torah, is a yoke. This is an extravagant jump through the attitude of self-authority that has no foundation in this verse, this verse is about serving with love and without love it becomes a yoke. This would apply to any form of worship, messianic, Jewish or not.

Also the way you have referenced Revelation is interesting. While the Greek Lexicon for zugon can be translated as "Yoke" it can also be translated as "scales". It is also interesting that pretty much all translations do reference it as "scale" in this scripture, based upon it's context, and not as you have in order to provide weak evidence.

Context: vs 6 "And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

As the post sentence begins with the qualifying word "AND", and is talking about measuring things, the word "zugon" has been contextually and rightly translated "scale" not "yoke" in the previous sentence.

Anyway this thread is not about whether one believes that Torah is still valid or not to the modern day believer (that's a completely different thread), however Torah at least must be *understood* in it's intention and implementation eventually by all those who wish to know their master better. The Temple and it's rebuilding, even the temple of heaven and understanding the complexities of Jesus' sacrifice can not be fully understood removed from it's foundation, for it at the very least creates context.

A scripture without a context creates a pretext, and a pretext can be used to prove *anything*.
 
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Regarding Ezekiel chapters 40-48, they aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen, but could be a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still under the Old Covenant (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (Ezekiel 42:13, 43:19-25, 44:27-29, 45:17-25, 46:20), which were completely abolished by Jesus Christ on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant law (Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:18-19, 2 Corinthians 3:7-13). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all of the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23).

When Jesus returns, he will build a New Covenant temple in Jerusalem before which animal sacrifices will be offered (Zechariah 14:20-21, 6:12-13), but not for sin. They could be offered in thanksgiving. And Jesus could build the temple according to the blueprints of Ezekiel chapters 40-48, but excising the parts about animal sacrifices for sin. Another possibility is that animal sacrifices for sin will be made, but only as a remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice, like how communion is now partaken of in remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice (Luke 22:19). The practice of communion could cease at Jesus' return (1 Corinthians 11:26).

---

If the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel succeed in building a third Jewish temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, it could be seen by God as a valid temple, just as the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem was seen by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53), a temple building co-existing as the temple of God alongside the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and alongside the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19), and alongside the temple of the church as a whole (Ephesians 2:21), and alongside the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews would build a third Jewish temple, and would perform animal sacrifices before it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12); that's why he still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19). This isn't to say that the (Jesus Christ rejecting) motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews would be holy before God, but that a Mosaic third temple in itself and Mosaic animal sacrifices in themselves would be holy before God because the Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus Christ and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for all of our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28, 2 Corinthians 3:6-18).

---

Regarding Acts 7:48-50, it (like Acts 17:24) means that God is too big to dwell only in temples made with hands (2 Chronicles 2:6), not that God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands. For God did dwel in Solomon's temple (1 Kings 8:11), just as he dwelt in the second Jewish temple (Matthew 23:21).

---

Regarding Hebrews 8:2, it refers to the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), which is the "true" literal temple building in the sense that the earthly literal temple buildings of the Jews have been only shadows/copies of it (cf. Hebrews 8:5).
 
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Carey

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"So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place[FONT=Arial, helvetica] (let the reader understand),[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica] then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica](Cf. Mat 24:15-18)[/FONT]

The 'hidden' message of Mat 24:15-18........LET THE READER UNDERSTAND.


This writing explains in detail that St. Paul taught that the Church is the Temple. Do not wait for the Temple of Jerusalem to be rebuilt prior to preparing for the Tribulation. It may never occur.


Must the Reconstruction of the Temple of Jerusalem Precede the Second Coming of Jesus Christ?

http://www.call2holiness.org/ReconstructionoftheTemple/ReconstructionoftheTemple.htm


We should prepare now, for that which will be upon us very soon!

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7292676

.

Here is what many Jews believe concerning the temple and sacrifices.

A man, whom I shall call Ted, wrote me and attempted to prove to me through various arguments that Jews have changed Judaism into another religion. I shall, with Hashem's help, debunk those and other arguments.
First, I want to clarify the basis of the issue. Jewish Law states that in the normal course of things we may not permit what Judaism has forbidden, nor may we repeal or abolish what is obligatory. We may often forbid what is permitted, but not always. There are restrictions on doing that as well. And when we may add a restriction, it must always clearly be a Rabbinical restriction, and never treated as a Biblical restriction.
We consider forbidding the permitted when necessary an ineluctable part of Judaism. It is part and parcel of the process of keeping Judaism alive. And it has worked successfully for over 3,300 years.
However, permitting what was forbidden, or rejecting what was obligatory -- those are actually changing Judaism in forbidden ways.
Now to discuss Ted's points.
Ted's first "proof" was that we no longer offer animal sacrifices. Therefore, he concluded, there is nothing wrong with changing Judaism. He used this to justify not observing those elements of Judaism he did not wish to keep.
There are a number of fundamental mistakes with that line of reasoning.
The reason we do not bring sacrifices today is because the Torah forbids us to bring sacrifices anywhere outside of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. (See my article about this, Why Do We No Longer Bring Sacrifices?) Since the Romans destroyed our Temple and sent us into exile it has been forbidden for us to bring sacrifices. Therefore, we are actually obeying the Torah by not bringing sacrifices. It is certainly not a product of our deliberately changing Judaism. Quite the contrary: it occurred against our will.
Three times a day we pray that Hashem restore to us the land of Israel, the Holy Temple, the Davidic kingdom, true divine rule, the system of Elders and the Sanhedrin (the highest Jewish Court), among other things. When these things are restored to us, the Holy Service at the Temple will be reinstated, and we will once again bring sacrifices. In fact, we pray explicitly for that to happen as well, when we say, three times a day, "Return the Service and the fires of Israel to Your Temple Sanctuary, and their prayers please quickly willingly accept with love.... This is an integral part of the Amidah prayer, which we pray three times a day. (The "fires" is a reference to the fact that some sacrifices were burned on the altar, either completely or in part.)
It is important to understand that our exile was forced upon us by outsiders. The fact that another culture conquered us does not mean that we have the right to change Judaism. If you read analytically what Ted wrote, you will see how his contention is not logical. What Ted was unknowingly saying, when you look at the historical perspective, is this: "Since the Romans kicked us out of the Holy Temple, and against our will we cannot keep the sacrifices, we may therefore willingly change anything we want in the Torah." How does that follow?

http://www.beingjewish.com/unchanged/changed.html
 
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Carey

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Here is what many Jews believe concerning the temple and sacrifices.

A man, whom I shall call Ted, wrote me and attempted to prove to me through various arguments that Jews have changed Judaism into another religion. I shall, with Hashem's help, debunk those and other arguments.
First, I want to clarify the basis of the issue. Jewish Law states that in the normal course of things we may not permit what Judaism has forbidden, nor may we repeal or abolish what is obligatory. We may often forbid what is permitted, but not always. There are restrictions on doing that as well. And when we may add a restriction, it must always clearly be a Rabbinical restriction, and never treated as a Biblical restriction.
We consider forbidding the permitted when necessary an ineluctable part of Judaism. It is part and parcel of the process of keeping Judaism alive. And it has worked successfully for over 3,300 years.
However, permitting what was forbidden, or rejecting what was obligatory -- those are actually changing Judaism in forbidden ways.
Now to discuss Ted's points.
Ted's first "proof" was that we no longer offer animal sacrifices. Therefore, he concluded, there is nothing wrong with changing Judaism. He used this to justify not observing those elements of Judaism he did not wish to keep.
There are a number of fundamental mistakes with that line of reasoning.
The reason we do not bring sacrifices today is because the Torah forbids us to bring sacrifices anywhere outside of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. (See my article about this, Why Do We No Longer Bring Sacrifices?) Since the Romans destroyed our Temple and sent us into exile it has been forbidden for us to bring sacrifices. Therefore, we are actually obeying the Torah by not bringing sacrifices. It is certainly not a product of our deliberately changing Judaism. Quite the contrary: it occurred against our will.
Three times a day we pray that Hashem restore to us the land of Israel, the Holy Temple, the Davidic kingdom, true divine rule, the system of Elders and the Sanhedrin (the highest Jewish Court), among other things. When these things are restored to us, the Holy Service at the Temple will be reinstated, and we will once again bring sacrifices. In fact, we pray explicitly for that to happen as well, when we say, three times a day, "Return the Service and the fires of Israel to Your Temple Sanctuary, and their prayers please quickly willingly accept with love.... This is an integral part of the Amidah prayer, which we pray three times a day. (The "fires" is a reference to the fact that some sacrifices were burned on the altar, either completely or in part.)
It is important to understand that our exile was forced upon us by outsiders. The fact that another culture conquered us does not mean that we have the right to change Judaism. If you read analytically what Ted wrote, you will see how his contention is not logical. What Ted was unknowingly saying, when you look at the historical perspective, is this: "Since the Romans kicked us out of the Holy Temple, and against our will we cannot keep the sacrifices, we may therefore willingly change anything we want in the Torah." How does that follow?

http://www.beingjewish.com/unchanged/changed.html

Today the fragile peace that prevails on the Temple Mount grows more and more tenuous to this hour. Certain groups are clearly preparing to build a Third Temple. The Government of Israel is determined to keep things as they are. Christians who take their New Testaments seriously believe the Third Temple will indeed soon be rebuild and the status quo is bound to change. The power and influence of a billion Muslim are committed not only to maintaining control of the Temple Mount, but moving out to conquer of all of Israel and then the world in the name of Allah. Bible believers know how the story will end, but the unfolding of the story is exciting indeed - almost on a daily basis.

The above information was mostly taken from news releases, brochures and reports of events in Jerusalem from 1967 to about 1990. Some of this material is not up to date. Web sites for some of the groups described above are listed on the Temple Mount home page. For current events and news items regarding the Temple Mount see Recent Events, (Fall 1996).

http://www.templemount.org/tempprep.html
 
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Codger

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Why the Temple will never be rebuilt.


The Tabernacle/Temple was based on three different ideas. The basic layout was reflected by the garden of Eden. Added to this was a picture of heaven and also God's plan of salvation – very ingenious.

The later temples were based on the tabernacle. The first one was built by Solomon - David's son. It was destroyed when Israel went into captivity in Babylon for their endless idolatries.

When the Jews came back from the captivity in Babylon, they wanted to rebuild the temple, but they were in a quandary. The writings of Ezekiel were widely known, but these specifications were so undefined that they finally decided to build a copy of Solomon's temple with a few items taken from from Ezekiel's temple. (Artscroll Mishna commentary)

God serendipitously sent Jesus to the cross to atone for the whole world. But on the day of Pentecost Peter preached a very significant sermon to all of Israel. He said that they crucified the messiah – but now all could come to him for forgiveness – thousands did. God gave Israel 40 years (30AD to 70AD) to repent. In those 40 years the Disciples and Apostles went to all of the known world as a witness.

In 66AD the end times had come - for this was the year of the beginning of the Jewish revolt against Rome. When Jesus died the New Covenant was established in his blood. The Old Covenant place of meeting was no longer needed as the New Holy of Holies was now within the believers. The old Holy of Holies was symbolically the place in the garden where God walked and talked with Adam and Eve. The rending of the Veil of the Temple opened the gates to the Garden once again. God once again walks and talks with all of his people.

God gave Israel many, many signs in that 40 years. It has been recorded that before the fall of Jerusalem a bright light appeared over the alter for about an hour and removed to the summit of the Mount of Olives for a period of 3 ½ years – the Shekinah. The massive doors of the Nicanor gate (Gate Beautiful) swung open at night by themselves – it took twenty men to open them normally. A sound of many voices said that they were departing hence. The scarlet cord never turned white in all those 40 years. In the scapegoat ritual the priests drew by lottery the black stone all 40 times – never the white. The western light (center – Edersheim) on the huge menorah in the Holy Place would go out every single night. This light was symbolic of Jesus and was never extinguished in the Holy Place. God gave Israel all kinds of signs pointing them to the Cross of Jesus. The Shikinah glory departed the Mount of Olives just before the destruction of the Temple never to return again. With the destruction of the temple the Old Covenant and all of its animal sacrifices and rituals were done away with - like the placenta after the birth.

The Jews have been trying to return to their homeland and rebuild the Temple since 70AD when Israel was destroyed by the Romans – so the idea that the Jews are only recently inspired to return to Palestine is an error - this is nothing new. The problem that they have had is that they have always been an occupied minority and could never get the acquiescence of any government long enough to accomplish their goals – until the USA came along that is. The Jews have tried to do a restart all through history, but God has continually frustrated their efforts. They have made three attempts of record; and the closest they came to rebuilding the Temple was under the Emperor Constantine, who had given them permission to do so. But under pressure from the Christian leadership he was convinced that he had made a mistake. He recanted and had the ears cut off of all the priests and craftsmen, so the work stopped. A deformed person was not allowed to build the temple. So the works fell into ruin.

In the ruins of the partially rebuilt Temple was a section of the western wall of the Holy of Holies. This was the original or real “wailing wall” of the Jews. On the first day of Passover, while the Jews were meeting in a cave used as a Synagogue under the ruins of the Temple site - the wall suddenly collapsed. The significance of this event is that this was the day that Jesus was crucified long ago. Another “arrow” pointing to something – the cross.

Even today the Jews are still totally frustrated in their forth attempt to rebuild the Temple because of the fact that the Muslims have control of the so called “temple mount.” This makes their plans impossible because of the potential violence of acquiring the "temple mount" from the Muslims. Actually, the complete temple was totally destroyed in 70AD just as Jesus predicted – not one stone was left upon another. What they are calling the "temple mount" today is in fact the Fortress Antonia. This is born out by hundreds of historical records. If they weren't so dogmatic on their beliefs - they could start tomorrow on their new Temple simply by moving a few things on the south side of the Fortress Antonia including a highway. In Jesus' day Fort Antonia was a heathen city within the city and the place was loathed and detested. Now they pray by the western wall - if only they knew.

The answer is that God only has one plan of Salvation – there is no optional one that reverts to the closed covenant of the past. He is herding the Jews through pressure back to the cross and not backward to the old system of symbolic rituals, which all depicted the Spiritual realm of the coming Messiah.

When I see how God has frustrated all four or maybe more unrecorded attempts so far - I am convinced that the Temple that the Radical Jews and the Christian Zionists of today so earnestly desire because it is a major prerequisite of their complex Eschatological beliefs. The Temple will never be rebuilt again based on the history of God's dealing with the Jews.

Larry
 
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gwynedd1

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Why the Temple will never be rebuilt.


The Tabernacle/Temple was based on three different ideas. The basic layout was reflected by the garden of Eden. Added to this was a picture of heaven and also God's plan of salvation – very ingenious.

The later temples were based on the tabernacle. The first one was built by Solomon - David's son. It was destroyed when Israel went into captivity in Babylon for their endless idolatries.

When the Jews came back from the captivity in Babylon, they wanted to rebuild the temple, but they were in a quandary. The writings of Ezekiel were widely known, but these specifications were so undefined that they finally decided to build a copy of Solomon's temple with a few items taken from from Ezekiel's temple. (Artscroll Mishna commentary)

God serendipitously sent Jesus to the cross to atone for the whole world. But on the day of Pentecost Peter preached a very significant sermon to all of Israel. He said that they crucified the messiah – but now all could come to him for forgiveness – thousands did. God gave Israel 40 years (30AD to 70AD) to repent. In those 40 years the Disciples and Apostles went to all of the known world as a witness.

In 66AD the end times had come - for this was the year of the beginning of the Jewish revolt against Rome. When Jesus died the New Covenant was established in his blood. The Old Covenant place of meeting was no longer needed as the New Holy of Holies was now within the believers. The old Holy of Holies was symbolically the place in the garden where God walked and talked with Adam and Eve. The rending of the Veil of the Temple opened the gates to the Garden once again. God once again walks and talks with all of his people.

God gave Israel many, many signs in that 40 years. It has been recorded that before the fall of Jerusalem a bright light appeared over the alter for about an hour and removed to the summit of the Mount of Olives for a period of 3 ½ years – the Shekinah. The massive doors of the Nicanor gate (Gate Beautiful) swung open at night by themselves – it took twenty men to open them normally. A sound of many voices said that they were departing hence. The scarlet cord never turned white in all those 40 years. In the scapegoat ritual the priests drew by lottery the black stone all 40 times – never the white. The western light (center – Edersheim) on the huge menorah in the Holy Place would go out every single night. This light was symbolic of Jesus and was never extinguished in the Holy Place. God gave Israel all kinds of signs pointing them to the Cross of Jesus. The Shikinah glory departed the Mount of Olives just before the destruction of the Temple never to return again. With the destruction of the temple the Old Covenant and all of its animal sacrifices and rituals were done away with - like the placenta after the birth.

The Jews have been trying to return to their homeland and rebuild the Temple since 70AD when Israel was destroyed by the Romans – so the idea that the Jews are only recently inspired to return to Palestine is an error - this is nothing new. The problem that they have had is that they have always been an occupied minority and could never get the acquiescence of any government long enough to accomplish their goals – until the USA came along that is. The Jews have tried to do a restart all through history, but God has continually frustrated their efforts. They have made three attempts of record; and the closest they came to rebuilding the Temple was under the Emperor Constantine, who had given them permission to do so. But under pressure from the Christian leadership he was convinced that he had made a mistake. He recanted and had the ears cut off of all the priests and craftsmen, so the work stopped. A deformed person was not allowed to build the temple. So the works fell into ruin.

In the ruins of the partially rebuilt Temple was a section of the western wall of the Holy of Holies. This was the original or real “wailing wall” of the Jews. On the first day of Passover, while the Jews were meeting in a cave used as a Synagogue under the ruins of the Temple site - the wall suddenly collapsed. The significance of this event is that this was the day that Jesus was crucified long ago. Another “arrow” pointing to something – the cross.

Even today the Jews are still totally frustrated in their forth attempt to rebuild the Temple because of the fact that the Muslims have control of the so called “temple mount.” This makes their plans impossible because of the potential violence of acquiring the "temple mount" from the Muslims. Actually, the complete temple was totally destroyed in 70AD just as Jesus predicted – not one stone was left upon another. What they are calling the "temple mount" today is in fact the Fortress Antonia. This is born out by hundreds of historical records. If they weren't so dogmatic on their beliefs - they could start tomorrow on their new Temple simply by moving a few things on the south side of the Fortress Antonia including a highway. In Jesus' day Fort Antonia was a heathen city within the city and the place was loathed and detested. Now they pray by the western wall - if only they knew.

The answer is that God only has one plan of Salvation – there is no optional one that reverts to the closed covenant of the past. He is herding the Jews through pressure back to the cross and not backward to the old system of symbolic rituals, which all depicted the Spiritual realm of the coming Messiah.

When I see how God has frustrated all four or maybe more unrecorded attempts so far - I am convinced that the Temple that the Radical Jews and the Christian Zionists of today so earnestly desire because it is a major prerequisite of their complex Eschatological beliefs. The Temple will never be rebuilt again based on the history of God's dealing with the Jews.

Larry

Hi Codger,

I had not known about under Constantine but I am familiar with Julian the apostate who was half brother to Constantine. He was a pagan who apparently wanted to weaken Christianity by creating a Jewish temple to prove God favored Jews over Christians . Interesting how then the temple was considered to defy the message of the Gospel by Christians of that day. Earthquakes and fire prevented that attempt. I wonder who was behind that divine intervention?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08558b.htm


I think Muslims are the least of their problems. If you want to see a comedy of disunity let us see "Israel" decide on the priesthood. Many Jews are atheists others think they should never build a temple and the one's that do will need to find decedents of Aaron. Does anyone really think Israel will actually conform to the Law and animal sacrifice anytime soon? Its not easy to actually follow the Law and the idea they will have all Jews doing this in Israel is really much more difficult than I think most people have considered.
 
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Codger

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Hi Codger,

I had not known about under Constantine but I am familiar with Julian the apostate who was half brother to Constantine. He was a pagan who apparently wanted to weaken Christianity by creating a Jewish temple to prove God favored Jews over Christians . Interesting how then the temple was considered to defy the message of the Gospel by Christians of that day. Earthquakes and fire prevented that attempt. I wonder who was behind that divine intervention?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08558b.htm


I think Muslims are the least of their problems. If you want to see a comedy of disunity let us see "Israel" decide on the priesthood. Many Jews are atheists others think they should never build a temple and the one's that do will need to find decedents of Aaron. Does anyone really think Israel will actually conform to the Law and animal sacrifice anytime soon? Its not easy to actually follow the Law and the idea they will have all Jews doing this in Israel is really much more difficult than I think most people have considered.

One Rabbi I heard some time ago said that no Jew living today can trace his ancestry back more than 300 years. How then could any of them be varified as a descendant of Aaron? Many many problems. If I remember correctly the first attempt was in the days of the Bar Kochba rebellion of what? 135AD. Too lazy to look it up.

Larry
 
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Jesusmyfriend

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The Antichrist never ruled for 42 months in 70 Ad after the temple was destroyed. Jesus never reterned after 1,290 days according to Daniel 9 from the moment of desolation. No Antichrist has ever required a buying or selling mark.

The temple must be rebuilt in order for the Antichrist to rise to fulfill 2nd Thess Chapter 2.
 
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zeke37

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hi guys and gals...I haven't read the whole thread but has this been mentioned yet?/?

in the NT, we are taught that we are the temple of God...so if Satan sits in the temple of God...where is he sitting??? certainly not in a building, even if he is in Jerusalem, claiming to be God YHVH...think about it!

those that believed his flood of lies will truly believe that he is God, and worship him as Such...sending their prayers to that false one in ignorance...instead of to Our Father....that would take away the daily oblation wouldn't it, because it is our prayers and love that God considers as sacrifice today, not burnt offerings, right?


something to consider...no actual building required at all...and again, we are taught that we are the temple of God...
 
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gwynedd1

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The Antichrist never ruled for 42 months in 70 Ad after the temple was destroyed. Jesus never reterned after 1,290 days according to Daniel 9 from the moment of desolation. No Antichrist has ever required a buying or selling mark.

The temple must be rebuilt in order for the Antichrist to rise to fulfill 2nd Thess Chapter 2.


Hi Jesusmyfriend,

There were plenty of false prophets to choose from locked up in Jerusalem at that time.
Also Jesus said he is coming with the cloud which any Old Testament reader knows is judgment and not a literal appearance of God. God appears in many ways. Simply read Revelation 2-3 and notice all the places Jesus might come in judgment. One reads exactly like 2 Thessolnians 2 .

Revelation 2
16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.​
Does sin and bring Jesus sound right? God may come in different ways. Its a pretty strong indication Jesus may judge different places at different times.

Jeremiah 29
10 For thus says the LORD: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place.​
Did he start walking around Babylon? No, and when Jesus says he is coming with the clouds its not like that either. Acts 1 for salvation is a different matter entirely.
 
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gwynedd1

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hi guys and gals...I haven't read the whole thread but has this been mentioned yet?/?

in the NT, we are taught that we are the temple of God...so if Satan sits in the temple of God...where is he sitting??? certainly not in a building, even if he is in Jerusalem, claiming to be God YHVH...think about it!

those that believed his flood of lies will truly believe that he is God, and worship him as Such...sending their prayers to that false one in ignorance...instead of to Our Father....that would take away the daily oblation wouldn't it, because it is our prayers and love that God considers as sacrifice today, not burnt offerings, right?


something to consider...no actual building required at all...and again, we are taught that we are the temple of God...


Hi zeke37,

I think Paul was really trying to express the real temple with the expression that he sits showing himself as God.

Anyway the temple is built since Gentiles could not seek the Lord without it.


Acts 15
16 ‘ After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.’[b]​
 
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A Witness

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Must the Temple of Jerusalem be Rebuilt?

Daniel 9:27 says, "He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him and the NT in Matthew 24:15-16, says, "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation',spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15-16 clearly state the Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount will be rebuild. The real question is 'when' it will be rebuilt and by 'whom'? The 'when' is sometime before the antichrist (the Sea Beast of Rev. 13:2-10) comes there. Before his coming, some form of sacrifices (grain or blood) must be taking place by the Jewish priests to be stopped.

The 'who' could be the antichrist, the Israelis, some international group or just maybe the elect angels of God. Why do I propose that the angels may rebuild the temple? Because Mark 14:58 says, "I [Jesus] will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man." And further, Acts 17:24 says "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands."

IMO it is possible: (1) the peace treaty (covenant) will be signed (triggering the seven years of tribulation); (2) shortly thereafter angels will build the temple on the temple mount in three days; (3) the Israelis will commence religious ceremonies there including sacrifices; (4) these sacrifices will be halted by the antichrists or his army's coming; and (5) the antichrist (the Sea Beast) will then set up his abomination that causes desolation on a wing of temple.
 
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zeke37

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Hi zeke37,

I think Paul was really trying to express the real temple with the expression that he sits showing himself as God.

Anyway the temple is built since Gentiles could not seek the Lord without it.


Acts 15
16 ‘ After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.’[b]
interesting, consider that in ACTS15, the temple in Jerusalem was still standing.....it was not pebbles and bropken structure...not for many years after that


so therefor the point is not a literal temple of brick and morter...is it? Remember that when those words were spoken, the temple stood!!!!

this is not a literal temple of bricks and stone.....nope. we are the temple of God, and through the election, will the rest of mankind come to know the Lord.
 
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Must the Temple of Jerusalem be Rebuilt?

Yes, for Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem during the coming tribulation.

It will coexist with the church like the second temple did (Luke 24:53) and like the temple in heaven does (Revelation 11:19).

It could be built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem by the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel after they clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Shortly after the ultra-Orthodox Jews complete the temple, the Antichrist could attack and defeat them and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22). Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26, Daniel 11:23) permitting them to keep the temple and to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it for at least seven more years (Daniel 9:27), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there.

But then, only two or three years after making the seven-year treaty, the Antichrist could break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36).

The current, secular government of Israel has been very careful to protect the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque ever since Israel took military control of the Temple Mount back in 1967. For the Israeli government knows that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were to destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the third holiest sites in Islam) in order to clear the Temple Mount for the building of a third Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the state of Israel, because Muslim armies and militias worldwide could in their total rage descend on Israel en masse in an all-out jihad, attacking Israel simultaneously from three directions, overwhelming its defenses and quickly overrunning its tiny territory, defeating it completely.

While the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel are no doubt aware of this danger to Israel should the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque ever be destroyed, they believe that the third Jewish temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the first and second Jewish temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could eventually be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a perfectly ultra-Orthodox, city-state of Israel within the walled Old City of Jerusalem (which contains the Temple Mount), and build in it a third Jewish temple before which they can restart the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices and perfectly keep every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law.

The ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel are currently very well-armed, as they are allowed by Israel to even have machine guns for self-defense against the Palestinians. If the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel start to get squeezed out of their settlements in Samaria and Judaea (also called the West Bank), especially around Hebron and East Jerusalem, because of some "peace deal" handing the whole kit and caboodle over to a Palestinian "state", the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel, in their rage and desperation, could ultimately resort to violence.

They could mass in their tens of thousands, all armed with machine guns, and led by three huge bulldozers they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem and go up onto the Temple Mount and completely destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. They could then begin to build the third Jewish Temple and declare the walled Old City of Jerusalem to be a purely ultra-Orthodox "city-state of the True Israel", where the Mosaic law will be the law, and where no non-kosher person or thing will be allowed within Old Jerusalem's "Holy walls".

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements, something else that could help tip the scales so that the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel will become violent is the rising up of a false, miracle-working ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel. He could rise up and say something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take religious control of the Holy Temple Mount and rid it of all the vile abominations which the heathen have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the reaction of the heathen when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place He determined from the time of our father Abraham.

"Our God gave us back the Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount? Let us rise up, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"


With such rhetoric, accompanied by his working of amazing miracles (cf. Matthew 24:24), a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel could whip up the ultra-Orthodox Jews there into a religious frenzy, so that they will all with great zeal, and without any fear, march in their tens of thousands upon the Temple Mount, and take total control of it, and then rejoice there and dance and sing holy hymns to God "for His great and mighty Victory".

Something else that could help tip the scales with regard to the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant. It could be found, for example, buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark's buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step").

The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the secular Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see the discovery of the Ark as (in their words) "an unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a strong motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

Fearing that some ultra-Orthodox Jews could nonetheless somehow discover the top secret location of the buried Ark, and go there in the dead of night and dig it up without a permit from, or any notification to, the Israeli government, the government could have placed armed guards and surveillance cameras to watch over the buried Ark's location day and night.

But if the buried Ark's location is found out by some ultra-Orthodox Jews, they could round up tens of thousands of their fellows, all armed with machine guns, and they could suddenly swarm the location, overwhelm any armed guards there, and hold off any subsequently-arrived IDF troops long enough to get the Ark out of the ground. Once it's out and the IDF troops actually see it, it's unlikely that they're going to try to stop the ultra-Orthodox Jews from parading it to the Temple Mount; they'll be in such awe.

Also, once the ultra-Orthodox Jews make it to the Temple Mount and begin destroying the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, it's unlikely that the IDF troops are going to open fire on their fellow Jews, slaughtering tens of thousands of them. And if the troops employ tear gas in an attempt to disperse the ultra-Orthodox Jews, this could be thwarted by the ultra-Orthodox Jews having brought along their gas masks (which could have been issued to them by the Israeli government itself, back when there was a fear that Saddam Hussein would send Scud missiles into Israel with chemical-weapons payloads).

So the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the complete destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. And so the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the subsequent, retaliatory destruction of the state of Israel at the hands of enraged Muslim armies and militias.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Must the Temple of Jerusalem be Rebuilt?

No. Some "temple" may be built there but it won't be "the temple of God" spoken of in the scriptures. Only a few will see the real Temple.
:)
What do you mean by the "real Temple"? Just curious

Matthew 24:1 And coming-out, the Jesus, He went from the Temple, and toward-came the disciples of Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple
[Revelation 14:8]

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the Temple that to stones ideal and devoted-things/ana-qhmasin <334> it hath been adorned He said.......

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one, follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Why does the passage say "let the reader understand" if the fulfillment is straightforward?

there's no need for a temple . but there will be a city .

Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
 
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hlaltimus

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The temple does not have to be rebuilt as far as God is concerned for spiritual/ceremonial/redemptive purposes of anyone now, but.....

If the Jewish community did covet the reinstitution of temple worship, then they need not rebuild the temple of old, as a solid, stationary temple was never something that God had commanded in the first place. "The law of the Lord is perfect", and that law no where commanded that any facility other than a tabernacle or tent facility ever be used. David himself took the initiative to build a fixed, permanent structure and God eventually allowed him to do so, but since "the law of the Lord is perfect", God's previous command to use a glorified tent reflected a perfect facility, while a permanent, solid structure reflected an imperfect facility relative to this life in God's eyes. Our faith is the same as that of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: Pilgrims, sojourners dwelling in tents to more properly illustrate that this world is not our true home, and that we must always be willing to pull up our tent stakes and move on to higher ground in point of our communion and knowledge of the God whom we seek. The fixed temple of Solomon would have been a good idea if this world were heaven where there is no higher ground of moral perfection in the worshipers of God, but since this is surely no heaven, our status of communion with God must always be that of adaptability in point of progressive holiness in sanctification. The Lord knew what he was doing when a tent facility was commanded to be used, and only allowed David and Solomon the wish to constuct a fixed, solid temple to illustrate the double status of worship both here and in heaven to come: An imperfect and movable status unto perfection, and a perfect and immutably fixed status in perfection. A tent is a far better illustration of the believer in this life pursuing the God of Abraham than a temple is, yet a temple is still a far better illustration of that state of fixed, moral perfection which all true believer's aspire to and daily seek through their mediator Christ Jesus until we all finally arrive at that perfect state of worship in heaven.

The Jewish people need not reconstruct a temple facility built upon Mount Moriah on two counts, not one.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Why does the passage say "let the reader understand" if the fulfillment is straightforward?

there's no need for a temple . but there will be a city .

Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
:thumbsup: :amen:
 
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CryptoLutheran

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If, and that's a fairly large if, a temple was rebuilt on the Mount I don't believe it will have any significant import for Christians, except for those who are big on end time scenarios involving its construction. If it could be done peacefully, then rad. But it would only have real significance for the Jewish community, and from what I understand many Jews have no vested interest in rebuilding it. There are many who actively oppose it believing that it will have to wait for when Messiah comes, and others who largely regard it as unnecessary today.

If it can be done peacefully, then again, awesome. My only vested interest, as a Christian, would be that there be no bloodshed over it.

In peace let us pray to the Lord.

YouTube - The Great Litany of Peace (Blessing of the Water)

-CryptoLutheran
 
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