Seven year Great Tribulation period.

Mark2010 said:

I seriously cannot see what people claim is so false about what Jen has said. She is the ONLY one who backs up all of her posts with scriptures. And most of her arguments make sense if you are open-minded to hear them out.

Click to expand...

Just because someone can post tons of scripture doesn't make them even near being right, or even come close to the context of what a verse is really saying. As far as she is the ONLY one who backs up all of her posts with scripture is a falsehood. There are others also.

YES, I know people can take scriptures and twist them to say some contorted things, but I honestly do not believe this is what she is doing at all.

Click to expand...

Do you REALLY know the bible from cover to cover? Does the Holy Spirit bring scripture to your mind while reading a post that will refute what the poster stated? If you can answer yes to this Honestly, then you are getting there.

Everyone has the right to their own beliefs and opinions and I certainly have never opposed that. But it just seems strange to me that so many are attacking her.

Click to expand...

Yes, we all have a right to our own beliefs because God gave us all freewill. I even have a few that some may think are way out there themselves, but they don't affect a persons salvation or I don't blast them all on here....just Obama being the Antichrist . When it comes to leading people astray and posting false doctrine though, then I and others are going to say something. Call us strange that way, but even Jesus called things as they were. As an example, if a person is Phariseeical, a deceiver, proud and boastful, or has the spirit of jealousy etc, I'm letting them know that I see that spirit in them. That isn't being judgmental either, but to exhort them to do something about it...biblical also. God gave some of us the gift of discernment, and all of the church of being able to test the spirits, biblical once again....sadly most don't use it. If that person doesn't do something about it after being exhorted, then that's their downfall not mine God bless.

If anyone thinks that what I am saying is wrong, PLEASE correct me. I do not want to mislead anyone. Show me with scripture where I am in error.

Is this really a good witness to the outside world as to what Christians are all about? I mean if I logged on here not knowing anything and wanting to learn, I would probably run for the door as fast as I could.

HisdaughterJen said:

If anyone thinks that what I am saying is wrong, PLEASE correct me. I do not want to mislead anyone. Show me with scripture where I am in error.

Click to expand...

from what I've gathered in the few days of posting in this section is that you are unwilling to see whats actually written in them

ppl who twist scripture resort to sentences from multiple verses taken out of context and strewn together in a way that seems to support their argument

this is why I often post fairly big chunks of scripture...cause I think its essential in capturing what is actually being said

&Abel said:

from what I've gathered in the few days of posting in this section is that you are unwilling to see whats actually written in them

ppl who twist scripture resort to sentences from multiple verses taken out of context and strewn together in a way that seems to support their argument

this is why I often post fairly big chunks of scripture...cause I think its essential in capturing what is actually being said

Click to expand...

Examples of scripture that I'm "unwilling to see what's written", please?

I go with the 3 1/2 year in which we will have both the blessings from God poured out like never before and the curse of man upon us.

We aren't currently in the chapter 11 part of
Revelation because the ultra-Orthodox Jews haven't
yet rebuilt a temple in Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1),
and the Antichrist hasn't made them give up the
outer court of that temple to the Muslims (Revelation
11:2a) so that the Muslims can worship in their Al
Aqsa Mosque at the southern end of the Temple Mount.
Also, the two witnesses haven't then come on the
scene, two or three years later, to prophesy and
perform amazing miracles during the 42 months, or
1,260 days, of the world-reign of the Antichrist
(Revelation 11:2b-6, cf. 13:5-8, 12:6).

---

The coming tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18
could last about seven years, for the 3.5-year world-
reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 12:14) won't start
until the latter half of the tribulation, after all
of the events of Revelation chapters 6-9 have
happened.

Shortly after the start of the coming tribulation,
when the Antichrist first comes upon the world scene
(Daniel 11:21), the Antichrist will "cut" a seven-year
peace treaty (Daniel 9:27a,26a, 11:22-23a) with a
false ultra-Orthodox Jewish Messiah who will be ruling
the Old City of Jerusalem with his followers. This
treaty will permit the ultra-Orthodox Jews to keep a
temple they'll have rebuilt, and permit them to
continue to offer the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices
in front of it.

But then, two or three years later, "in the midst"
of the seven years of the treaty, the Antichrist
will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the
sacrifices, and commit the abomination of desolation
(Daniel 9:27b, 11:31, Matthew 24:15), when he'll sit
in the temple and say that he's God (2 Thessalonians
2:4, Daniel 11:36).

Thus will begin the Antichrist's 3.5-year Luciferian
reign of terror over the earth, when everyone in the
whole world will be forced to worship Lucifer the
dragon and the Antichrist and his image, and receive
his mark on their right hand or their forehead
(Revelation 13:4-18).

---

The two witnesses could be Moses and Elijah
physically descended from heaven, for Elijah
physically ascended alive into heaven (2 Kings 2:11),
and Moses' dead body was recovered from the devil by
Michael (Jude 1:9), who could have taken it into
heaven where it was resuscitated, for both Moses and
Elijah appeared alive at the transfiguration
(Matthew 17:3).

Moses and Elijah would be the two "standing before
the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4), just as they
were the two standing before Jesus at the
transfiguration (Mark 9:4), for Jesus is God (John
20:28).

While John the Baptist came in the spirit and power
of Elijah (Luke 1:17), and so was a fulfillment of
Malachi 4:5 (Matthew 11:14), Matthew 17:11 could
mean that Elijah himself will come before Jesus'
second coming.

The miracles in Revelation 11:6 which will be
performed by the two witnesses match the miracles
which were performed by Elijah and Moses in the Old
Testament (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20).

---

Obama could turn out to be an antichrist (1 John 2:18),
but he won't turn out to be the Antichrist because the
gematrial number of his name isn't 666 (Revelation
13:17b-18), and he isn't from a country the territory
of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian
(Greek) kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of
Alexander (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25).

The Antichrist could be an Arab from Tyre, Lebanon
(Ezekiel 28:2, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4) who will have
a name like "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", the
gematrial number of which is 666.

One interpretation of the two witnesses is that these are the OT & the NT, with the 42 prophetic months (1260 years, see Num 14:34 , Eze. 4:6) being the time that these books were in mourning (sackcloth and ashes) for they were kept hidden away by church scholars and were not translated into readable languages for the masses to read for themselves. (Rev. 11:3-6 see Mal. 3:1, fire and brimstone).

The Festival of Reason in the Cathedral in Notre Dame took place in 1793. Bibles were gathered and burned, the Sabbath, baptism and communion was abolished and the existence of God was denied. The orgy of violence that occurred during this time claimed the lives of 50,000 people. (Rev. 11:7)

3 1/2 years (3 1/2 prophetic days) after the Bible was abolished by decree (Nov/1793), a resolution that gave tolerance to the Bible was passed in June 1797 (Rev. 11:11).

Rev. 11:12 and 13 describe the massive production of the Bible that reached all parts of the world and the French Revolution (a tenth part of the city - 1 of 10 toes of the Beast of Europe).

I favor a panoramic historical view of Revelation 11 because it fits the events of the time and this panoramic pattern of history repeats itself throughout Revelation, with each retelling highlighting different events of world and church history.

Recall that Christ said he will come like a thief in the night when people least expect him. I believe most of the events in Revelation have already taken place and that the church has about 5 years left before it is raptured. I wouldn't keep watch for special witnesses or beasts coming out of the sea and the earth, if I were you.

http://unsealedprophecy.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/the-silence-is-broken/

If you guys are looking for two literal witnesses then you won't find them. Most of the book of revelation are symbolic. How do we explain the two witnesses being referred to as two olive tress and two candlesticks?

Do you really think that for 3 1/2 literal years, 2 reincarnations of Moses and Elijah are going to come to earth and breath fire and kill people. If that's true them i'm on their side because no way can anyone get to me with these guys protecting me.

PROPHECYKID said:

If you guys are looking for two literal witnesses then you won't find them. Most of the book of revelation are symbolic. How do we explain the two witnesses being referred to as two olive tress and two candlesticks?

Do you really think that for 3 1/2 literal years, 2 reincarnations of Moses and Elijah are going to come to earth and breath fire and kill people. If that's true them i'm on their side because no way can anyone get to me with these guys protecting me.

Click to expand...

Their message will be different that what is given by any group known now. They will be the cutting line from the false and the true...giving the clearest message this world has ever seen with the power and authority of God. One of the reasons why they will be is because they will be going head to head and toe to toe with the greatest imitation of Jesus Christ this world has ever seen. IT will be that which will separate the goats from the sheep.

newsflash: The 7 years prophecied in Daniel happened. It is very much agaisnt scripture to claim that there will be another fufillment of that 7 year period, since that would make it 7*71 and not 7*70 as God said, i.e. the time period wll be 497 years not 490 years. There are no morereferences to a 7 year period in the furure, so just get over it, haha.

to claim that the 7 years are not literal years but symbolic, could have something too it if the 7 year period actually was mentioned in the symbolic preopheies of the revelation. Lots of symbolic numbers in there.
However, it is not, but it is in Daniel, where it is SOOOO obvious that all these year-weeks are to be taken as literally 7 year periods since he is reffering to the 7year-cycles from the law of moses that israel followed. The prophecy is basicly that there are 70 of these cycles left for the law and for the old covenant. In the beginning of the last "week" the messiah cae forth and was baptised and began his ministry, in the middle if that week he was crusified. Lots of premmillennialsitst think Danile talks about the antichrist here, but its not. Its one of the few placec in the OT that the word messiah is used. (the other place is psalm 2). It is about the messiah that closed the old covenant and started a new. Lots more to be said about this how Jesus fulfilles this prophecy in detail. They are connected to historic facts the text and there is no symbolism in thet passage. get over it! tjeeheeeehee!!

Now dont get mad at me for speaking the truth!!!

The 3.5 years, 42 moths 1260 days, also happened as predicted and within that generation as both jesus and john said it would. (yes they did). As the leader of the roman army set camp against jerusalm in ad66 the broke trough the westernwall and put the roman signet in the arks place, and stoped the daily sacrifice. the war against israel under nero lasted 3.5 years and ended as predicted in the fall of jerusalem. There is not a double fulfillment of that prophecy either, one in the past and one in the future. Get over that too and get into a more positive christianity a long with all the great reformers and apostolic movements where the kingdom of God overtakes the world trough the power of the gospel as it is preached by the church. Come on!!!

Ok, but there's still a little matter of a 42 month reign of the devil that is still to come when the devil and his angels are cast down at the time that the church is caught up.

PROPHECYKID said:

If you guys are looking for two literal witnesses then you won't find them. Most of the book of revelation are symbolic. How do we explain the two witnesses being referred to as two olive tress and two candlesticks?

Do you really think that for 3 1/2 literal years, 2 reincarnations of Moses and Elijah are going to come to earth and breath fire and kill people. If that's true them i'm on their side because no way can anyone get to me with these guys protecting me.

Click to expand...

heeehehe thats funny. and i agree so much it hurts. The angel came down to john and said he would show him all the stuff in symbols, so its totally gods own guidelines to do a lot of literal interpretations of the revy of john.

Btw, ppl have all kinds of interpreations of the beast and its head, the harlot and whatnot. What about just reading what the angel said in chap. 17??

the beast is the roman empire, the kingdom that ruled when John was on patmos. Noone denies that. The heads are the 7 first kings. Five of them was already fallen, and the sixth was the guy righin there and then, which also was the beast "incarnated" if u will. Counting from Julius, that gives us Nero. The 7th guy reigned only for "a short while" as foretold, in fact only a few months,. That was Galba. THen the impore went into a fall so it almost collapsed, and in a few months three more guys tried to be ceasars but the all got killed or something. Then the eleventh guy came in from another family and he was a Nero 2 kind of guy. After Galba, these other guys are not mentioned in johns revy, but daniels talks about them. Think about the three opf the ten horns horns that was rooted up, and the eleventh little horn came in from the side instead and acted all cocky and stuff.

The point of this guys is that it all happened, and history gives a testimony that God was right all the time AND he was on time. Forget all this specualtion and unproovable theory. Instead be apart of the living organism valled the church that is dicsipling "all nations". Remember Jesus is not coming back until "all his enemies are under his feet". Better get to it then.

HisdaughterJen said:

Ok, but there's still a little matter of a 42 month reign of the devil that is still to come when the devil and his angels are cast down at the time that the church is caught up.

Click to expand...

NOt really. Well theres no 42 months of the devils reign. It just say thet the beats was given power to go on for 42 months, which it was. It happened exactly as predicted. Most people understnatds the periods of 42 months, 3.5 years and 1260 days in chap 11 the be the same period. The reason they are mentioned in three different ways must be because the are not symbolic. Some could easily belive that since revelations is such a symbolic book.
Concider this. in rev. 11, the vision is dated, because john is told to measure the temple in jerusalem. Not another temple, but THE temple. IN other words, there was a temple in jerusalem. It was about to fall, but it hadnt happened at that time. It fell in ad 70, therefore john 11 is about that time.
ALso there are no doulbe fulfilment of the 42 months. The implicationts of that would be that there is a double fulfilment of all the visions of johns heavy rev. Two beasts. Two oeriods of 2.5 years. Two burning mountains cast into the sea. Two false prophets. And on and on and on

The matter of the binding of satan and the catching up of the church are of course other matters, but i dont see how it has something too do with this. But im open to learn!!!

Gary777 said:

heeehehe thats funny. and i agree so much it hurts. The angel came down to john and said he would show him all the stuff in symbols, so its totally gods own guidelines to do a lot of literal interpretations of the revy of john.



Btw, ppl have all kinds of interpreations of the beast and its head, the harlot and whatnot. What about just reading what the angel said in chap. 17??

the beast is the roman empire, the kingdom that ruled when John was on patmos. Noone denies that. The heads are the 7 first kings. Five of them was already fallen, and the sixth was the guy righin there and then, which also was the beast "incarnated" if u will. Counting from Julius, that gives us Nero. The 7th guy reigned only for "a short while" as foretold, in fact only a few months,. That was Galba. THen the impore went into a fall so it almost collapsed, and in a few months three more guys tried to be ceasars but the all got killed or something. Then the eleventh guy came in from another family and he was a Nero 2 kind of guy. After Galba, these other guys are not mentioned in johns revy, but daniels talks about them. Think about the three opf the ten horns horns that was rooted up, and the eleventh little horn came in from the side instead and acted all cocky and stuff.

The point of this guys is that it all happened, and history gives a testimony that God was right all the time AND he was on time. Forget all this specualtion and unproovable theory. Instead be apart of the living organism valled the church that is dicsipling "all nations". Remember Jesus is not coming back until "all his enemies are under his feet". Better get to it then.

Click to expand...

Well, you are misinformed.

Christ REIGNS until "all enemies are under his feet"...He comes back WAY before that.

1Cr 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

HisdaughterJen said:

Well, you are misinformed.

Christ REIGNS until "all enemies are under his feet"...He comes back WAY before that.

1Cr 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Click to expand...

Well, this verse is a quote in NT from psalm 110. It is the most quoted or paraphrased OT verse found in NT.
Hebrews clears the mess up:

"Heb 10:12 But He Himself, having offered one sacrifice for sins forever, He sat down at the right hand of God,
Heb 10:13 from that time waiting till His enemies are placed as a footstool for His feet. "

So the questions is: Jesus sat down. What is he waiting for until he will get up from that throne acn come back?

The answer is: "waiting till His enemies are placed as a footstool for His feet. "

The two witnesses will be two literal men who will wear literal
sackcloth, prophesy (Revelation 11:3), do miracles (Revelation
11:5-6), and be killed (Revelation 11:7). Their dead bodies will lie
unburied in the street of Jerusalem (Revelation 11:8-10) for 3.5 days
before they are resuscitated and taken into heaven (Revelation
11:11-12).

The 1,260 days during which the two witnesses will prophesy
(Revelation 11:3) will be the same as the 1,260 days (Revelation
12:6), or 42 months (Revelation 13:5), or 3.5 years (Revelation
12:14) during which the Antichrist will rule the world (Revelation
13:7b).

Revelation 13:4-18, like 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:31,36, and
Matthew 24:15, has never been fulfilled. It will be fulfilled by the
Antichrist.

---

The two witnesses being symbolically called the two olive trees
standing before the God of the earth (Revelation 11:4) is a reference
back to the two olive trees in Zechariah 4:3, which are the two
anointed ones who stand by the Lord (Zechariah 4:14). They could
be Moses and Elijah, who were seen standing by the Lord at his
transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

---

Moses and Elijah wouldn't have to be reincarnated to come back as
the two witnesses, just as they didn't have to be reincarnated to
appear alive and well at the transfiguration (Luke 9:30). Moses' dead
body had been recovered from the devil by Michael (Jude 1:9), after
which Michael could have taken it into heaven to be resuscitated by
God; and Elijah never died, but went alive into heaven (2 Kings 2:11).

There's no reincarnation (Hebrews 9:27).