War hawkish Christians?

Doctrine1st · Dec 6, 2002

I know I am on the outside looking in, but I would like to think that being a Christian means following the teachings on Jesus, and the paradigm of his teachings would be the Sermon on the Mount, No? But then I see that here in America about 70% of Christians support Bush in the ideal of going to war on Iraq, even though they have not attacked us, which is beyond our populas norm. Here:

WASHINGTON--Of the major religious groups in the United States, evangelical Christians are the biggest backers of Israel and Washington's planned war against Iraq, says a new survey released here on Wednesday, October 9, by a politically potent group of fundamentalist Christians and Jews.

Some 69 percent of conservative Christians favor military action against Baghdad; 10 percentage points more than the U.S. adult population as a whole.

By Jim Lobe Inter Press Service

Does anyone have any ideals why this is?

Is it because G.W. Bush is a confessed Christian and Christians support him because of this rather than his policies?

Are they being swayed in thier views by the religious right?

Is not this the antithesis of what Jesus taught? I can whole heartidly understand defending ourselves, but we have not been directly threatened by Iraq in the manner that Russia in the past has threatened us and he has not even close the capabilities of North Korea?

In a sense those who live in Iraq are like those who Jesus spoke of in the Sermon who are in need, Jesus said bless them not bomb them. Why are Christians so in favor of supporting something so fundamentally anti-Christian and so counter to Jesus' teachings?

P.S. I will retort only in follow up questions----Jedi

Cheers D1st

strathyboy · Dec 6, 2002

I think we need to question whether the American response to Iraq is different from the Christian response. I believe it is, but it is clear that many believe the American and Christian responses to be one and the same.
Perhaps we should be asking "what would Jesus do?", not "what would Jesus do if he was American?".

Rae · Dec 6, 2002

Seeing that I was anti-war even when I was a Christian, I'll just stop right here before all the hawks swoop down and attack this innocent little dove of peace ::waits for the swooping::

Doctrine1st · Dec 6, 2002

Originally posted by strathyboy
I think we need to question whether the American response to Iraq is different from the Christian response. I believe it is, but it is clear that many believe the American and Christian responses to be one and the same.
Perhaps we should be asking "what would Jesus do?", not "what would Jesus do if he was American?".

Yes, understood, I was mainly speaking of American Christians as I really don't know if the term "fundamentalist" is used outside of America's boarders. I personally think it was more to do with Christians supporting him in the ideal of war because he is "one of us." What do you think about this assertion?

Cheers D1st

SavedByGrace3 · Dec 6, 2002

Hi.
Would your opinion be different if you knew for certain that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction?
Perhaps the president knows something we do not.
Personally I too am against a war at this time.

Ajnin · Dec 6, 2002

I think it might be because patriotism and christianity are twined together so strongly. It's looked upon as patriotic, at least in conservative circles, to support the president, so if you don't support the president and the war, your not being patriotic, and because your not being a good patriot, your not being a good christian.

Quath · Dec 6, 2002

I would say that the desire to attack Iraq as opposed to North Korea which is known to violate the weapons of mass destruction rule is partly due to oil and partly due to terrorism. If the middle east is unstable it hurts the world's economy, so in pure self interest, the US wants to maintain stability in the middle east even to the point of war.

As for terrorism, the US is afraid that Iraq could supply some good terrorist materials. The facts seem to be that Iraq has not and probably would not, but that doesn't stop people from fearing that Iraq would. If Saddam did have WMD, then my guess is he would use it on Isreal first.

I am kind of divided on this. If we ignore Saddam after he was warned not to make WMD, then we are just repeating history when we ignored Hitler violating the WWI treaty. So hopefully the UN will keep the peace in this case.

The problem with Christianity is you can have any moral and back it up with Bible versus. If you are for or against slavery you can quote the Bible. If you are for or against war you can do the same. So I don't see Christianity really changing people's morals much from what they developed as they grew up.

Scott (Quath)

fin · Dec 6, 2002

The support of Christians for war is a disgrace to Christianity. I would even go as far as to say that being patriotic is not Christian. We are charged to be in the world but not of the world. Our only affiliation is with God, not the country.

When Christianity is mixed with politics and patriotism it stops being a religion and becomes a secular institution.

fin · Dec 6, 2002

"So I don't see Christianity really changing people's morals much from what they developed as they grew up."

That is a very good point.

Doctrine1st · Dec 6, 2002

Originally posted by hobart schmedly
Hi.
Would your opinion be different if you knew for certain that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction?
Perhaps the president knows something we do not.
Personally I too am against a war at this time.

Well, since we in the past have gave them to him, not really.

Judging by all the enormous statues and pictures of himself, I think Saddam is too much of a Narcissistic to be crazy enough to use them against us. Saddam lobbied Bush Sr, for a response before he set his sights of Kuwait before Desert Storm. When it comes to messing with us, other than trying to asassinate Sr,. he's not that crazy. Remember Khrushev(?) of Russia pounding on a U.N. table with his shoe saying that "he will bury us" and we didn't attack them.

Cheers, D1st

Doctrine1st · Dec 6, 2002

Originally posted by Ajnin
I think it might be because patriotism and christianity are twined together so strongly. It's looked upon as patriotic, at least in conservative circles, to support the president, so if you don't support the president and the war, your not being patriotic, and because your not being a good patriot, your not being a good christian.

But is this not putting country and the president ahead of the teachings of Jesus and the will of God? Akin to choosing Mammon (or anything other) over God?

Cheers, D1st

Doctrine1st · Dec 6, 2002

Originally posted by fin
The support of Christians for war is a disgrace to Christianity. I would even go as far as to say that being patriotic is not Christian. We are charged to be in the world but not of the world. Our only affiliation is with God, not the country.

When Christianity is mixed with politics and patriotism it stops being a religion and becomes a secular institution.

Thanks Fin, I can kind of guess where you stood with the pledge of allegiance flap then. I guess this puts you in the other 31%.

D1st

Evangelion · Dec 6, 2002

The majority of American Christians appear to be trigger-happy conservatives with very little knowledge of the outside world, and an ardent love affair with humanism.

Of course they're going to support Bush.

Evangelion · Dec 6, 2002

fin -

When Christianity is mixed with politics and patriotism it stops being a religion and becomes a secular institution.

Amen!

"Christian" politicians are an absolute disgrace to the cross of Christ.

OldBadfish · Dec 6, 2002

God condones fighting for and defending your country and it's leaders.

God himself has sent armies in to destroy cities.

OldBadfish · Dec 6, 2002

Romans 13:4

"He (the civil ruler) is Gods servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Overt government action is warranted to protect citizens from criminal behavior within and without. Such action includes war.

Doctrine1st · Dec 6, 2002

Originally posted by Badfish
Romans 13:4

"He (the civil ruler) is Gods servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Ah ha....so this is the verse that the Kings used to justify their attrocities and the ideal of the "Divine Kingship" They were doing God's work, "it says right here in the book."

Overt government action is warranted to protect citizens from criminal behavior within and without. Such action includes war.

Ok, so what is the overt threat from Saddam upon us to justify Christians wanting to go to war at a 70% clip?

Cheers, D1st

strathyboy · Dec 6, 2002

Originally posted by Badfish
God condones fighting for and defending your country and it's leaders.

God himself has sent armies in to destroy cities.

Do you realize how many nations the US can justify invading using that logic?

Evangelion · Dec 6, 2002

Badfish -

God condones fighting for and defending your country and it's leaders.

God himself has sent armies in to destroy cities.

He did in the past, but He doesn't anymore.

OldBadfish · Dec 6, 2002

Originally posted by Evangelion
Badfish -

He did in the past, but He doesn't anymore.

Revelation 12:7-9
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Mark 13:7-8
[7] And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
[8] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

God was/is willing to fight a war, that alone proves that some war is right. Notice that the text says that God's forces fought against the Devil and his forces, and they fought back. If God was unwilling to send his forces to war it would have allowed the arrogant forces of darkness to stay put and evil to triumph. War was necessary to defend the Truth.

Any war that is for covetous reasons is wrong. This is non-negotiable, even as God cannot change and his ten-commandments are a reflection of His holiness. If you are going to war to take something that is not rightfully yours, it is a war with covetous evil intent. The danger here is that it's easy to become self-deluded into believing that something should be yours.

The results of all these covetous wars, on both a large and a small scale, are reflected in both Old and New Testament passages. Revelation prophesies about the war in heaven, whether it happened or not yet, doesn't matter, the fact is that God is willing to war to defend.

If we are under attack, we should defend.

War hawkish Christians?

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