Lake of fire??

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Mark2010

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In Revelation, the term "lake of fire" is used to describe hell, or the final punishment of the beast, false prophet and sinful people.

Like many things in Revelation, it is not clear whether this is a literal place or symbolic of something else.

If it was a literal "lake" or "pit" of fire, it seems that anyone placed in such would not live forever but would quickly perish. So, maybe it is symbolic of something else.

Any ideas?
 

kingdom-heir

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If you read the book "23 minutes in hell" you will understand very clearly what the lake of fire and hell is like. The author experienced it and was is a state of severe shock after he was brought back from it. I heard the man on radio tell his story, he did not make it up!!
 
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onwingsaseagles

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In Revelation, the term "lake of fire" is used to describe hell, or the final punishment of the beast, false prophet and sinful people.

Like many things in Revelation, it is not clear whether this is a literal place or symbolic of something else.

If it was a literal "lake" or "pit" of fire, it seems that anyone placed in such would not live forever but would quickly perish. So, maybe it is symbolic of something else.

Any ideas?
It is a literal place, it is not hell. Hell is where sinners go to await judgment, the lake of fire is where they go after judgment.
 
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onwingsaseagles

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Ok, but fire? real fire? It would seem if that is the case, whatever was thrown into that would be destroyed, not live forever. Where could this place or torment be?
Jesus said the the worm or soul would burn and never die, in Revelation 14:11 it says the smoke of their torment will ascend forever and ever. This torment is everlasting.
 
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Mark2010

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so what then in placed there? It obviously is not human bodies as we know them now. Is it spirits? If so, how do spirits burn?

I would not limit torment to merely the physical realm. Just saying it is a place of torment does not necessarily mean that it is physical.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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In Revelation, the term "lake of fire" is used to describe hell, or the final punishment of the beast, false prophet and sinful people.

Like many things in Revelation, it is not clear whether this is a literal place or symbolic of something else.

If it was a literal "lake" or "pit" of fire, it seems that anyone placed in such would not live forever but would quickly perish. So, maybe it is symbolic of something else.

Any ideas?
All the foundational doctrines are explained in the Book of 1 Enoch, and for the reason that they are already explained in a book which was in use and called Scripture by Jesus. then it was not re-written in the books Moses or the prophets wrote, or that the NT authors wrote.
Enoch was taken on a tour of the creation by angels, and saw all things that are not explained but mentioned by Moses and the prophets, and which mentions leave one "fuzzy" and open to all kinds of strange interpretations if one is denied access to the foundational book of 1 Enoch.
Enoch saw the Abyss, which is the Lake, of fire, and it is the "outer darkness" of creation, where those human beings cast into it, in their own human being bodies [for which Christ died to redeem back from the transgression of Adam], are in the blackness of darkness forever, and there they suffer torments according to their deeds done by them in those bodies, in willfulness and with freewill, against the Light that lights every man that comes into the world. They would not repent, and so their names were blotted out of the Book of Life in which Book each person born in Adam was already written to be redeemed in Christ as the second Man, from the death in Adam, from the foundtion of the world.
Because Jesus paid the debt for all born in Adam, then all born in Adam will rise in their own human being bodies, and because those who would not repent and receive the Salvation Jesus came to purchase all Adam for, then they must be cast aways in the "Chaos" of the Lake of fire forever, where the body which is called the "worm" will never die -that is, be morphosed into the image of the New Man and glorified with the Glory Adam lost, at the fall.

The Lake -Abyss- of fire which burns hotter than fire is also the place of everlasting torment for the demons [bastard spirits born of daughters of Adam and sons of God] who never get their bodies back because they were unlawfully got by fornication.

The Abyss is also the place of everlasting torment for all the angels who sinned. Those angels who committed fornication were chained ain Sheol -beneath earth- before the flood, as an example and warning of the fate of all who would after that commit such fornication [as Jude explains].
Those angels who are the "principalities and powers", rulers of darkness in heavenly places against which we "wrestle" will also be bound up and cast into the Abyss at the end of this present creation, when all things are regenerated except the Lake of Fire -the outer darkness.
Reading about it in 1 Enoch one gets the definite idea that it is God's "Waste" deposit for the rejects of creation; sorta like a nuclear septic tank which contains the filth forever and forever; for nothing can be destroyed that God has made, Enoch said, but all things that are in rebellion must be contained forever and forever.
So they get their place to go to, and the born again in Christ persons -which will include the innocent babies and mental babies who die before they can understand and do good or evil with understanding and includes all the redeemed of earth's entire creation, from the beginning [for Christ atoned once, for all, at the appointed time], will inherit the regenerated creation and live with heaven and earth united to the Father in the Son, forever.

It's explained in 1 Enoch, and that was where Jesus and Peter, Jude, James, John and Paul read the things that they referred to from it which are not explained in Moses and the prophets. It's a pity that Rome banned the book in the fourth century, and so the western world suffered the loss and lots of confusion resulted in the western Church since then; but the Ethiopian Coptic Church never did ban it, and it was preserved by them as it was when they got it [and some parts are missing, still].

Revelation and 1 Enoch go together, and Enoch saw things pre-incarnation: John was shown much of the the same post incarnation and resurrection.
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Ok, but fire? real fire? It would seem if that is the case, whatever was thrown into that would be destroyed, not live forever. Where could this place or torment be?
It was made for the devil and his angels, and all who are blotted out of the Book of Life will have their part in it.
Nothing God created can be uncreated, and when Jesus regenerates the heavens and the earth then there will be no place in it for the wicked and unrepentent. They will be cast into the Abyss which is the "everlasting destruction", the second death, which is a complete irreversible "death" of darkness without the Light which now lights every man that comes into the world.

[Chapter 21]
1,2 And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither 3 a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. And there I saw 4 seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. Then 5 I said: 'For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?' Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: 'Enoch, why 6 dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, 7 the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.' And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of 8 fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. Then I said: 'How 9 fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And 10 I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' And he said unto me: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.'






[Chapter 45]
1 And this is the second Parable concerning those who deny the name of the dwelling of the holy ones and the Lord of Spirits.

2 And into the heaven they shall not ascend,​
And on the earth they shall not come:​
Such shall be the lot of the sinners​
Who have denied the name of the Lord of Spirits,​
Who are thus preserved for the day of suffering and tribulation.​

3 On that day Mine Elect One shall sit on the throne of glory​
And shall try their works,​
And their places of rest shall be innumerable.​

And their souls shall grow strong within them when they see Mine Elect Ones,​
And those who have called upon My glorious name:​
4 Then will I cause Mine Elect One to dwell among them.​

And I will transform the heaven and make it an eternal blessing and light​
5 And I will transform the earth and make it a blessing:​

And I will cause Mine elect ones to dwell upon it:​
But the sinners and evil-doers shall not set foot thereon.​

6 For I have provided and satisfied with peace My righteous ones​
And have caused them to dwell before Me:​

But for the sinners there is judgement impending with Me,​
So that I shall destroy them from the face of the earth.​






3 In those days I saw the Head of Days when He seated himself upon the throne of His glory,​
And the books of the living were opened before Him:​
And all His host which is in heaven above and His counselors stood before Him,​

4 And the hearts of the holy were filled with joy;​
Because the number of the righteous had been offered,​
And the prayer of the righteous had been heard,​
And the blood of the righteous been required before the Lord of Spirits.​

[Chapter 63]
1 In those days shall the mighty and the kings who possess the earth implore (Him) to grant them a little respite from His angels of punishment to whom they were delivered, that they might fall 2 down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sins before Him. And they shall bless and glorify the Lord of Spirits, and say:​

' Blessed is the Lord of Spirits and the Lord of kings,​
And the Lord of the mighty and the Lord of the rich,​
And the Lord of glory and the Lord of wisdom,​

3 And splendid in every secret thing is Thy power from generation to generation,​
And Thy glory for ever and ever:​

Deep are all Thy secrets and innumerable,​
And Thy righteousness is beyond reckoning.​

4 We have now learnt that we should glorify​
And bless the Lord of kings and Him who is king over all kings.'​
5 And they shall say:​
' Would that we had rest to glorify and give thanks​
And confess our faith before His glory !​

6 And now we long for a little rest but find it not:​
We follow hard upon and obtain (it) not:​

And light has vanished from before us,​
And darkness is our dwelling-place for ever and ever:​

7 For we have not believed before Him​
Nor glorified the name of the Lord of Spirits, [nor glorified our Lord]​

But our hope was in the sceptre of our kingdom,​
And in our glory.​

8 And in the day of our suffering and tribulation He saves us not,​
And we find no respite for confession​

That our Lord is true in all His works, and in His judgements and His justice,​
And His judgements have no respect of persons.​

And we pass away from before His face on account of our works,​
And all our sins are reckoned up in righteousness.'​

10 Now they shall say unto themselves: ' Our souls are full of unrighteous gain, but it does not prevent us from descending from the midst thereof into the burden of Sheol.'

11 And after that their faces shall be filled with darkness
And shame before that Son of Man,
And they shall be driven from his presence,
And the sword shall abide before his face in their midst.

12 Thus spake the Lord of Spirits: ' This is the ordinance and judgement with respect to the mighty and the kings and the exalted and those who possess the earth before the Lord of Spirits.'


[QUOTE]
[Chapter 108]
1 Another book which Enoch wrote for his son Methuselah and for those who will come after him, 2 and keep the law in the last days. Ye who have done good shall wait for those days till an end is made of those who work evil; and an end of the might of the transgressors. And wait ye indeed till sin has passed away, for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn; for there is no earth there. And I saw there something like an invisible cloud; for by reason of its depth I could not look over, and I saw a flame of fire blazing brightly, and things like shining 5 mountains circling and sweeping to and fro. And I asked one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto him: ' What is this shining thing? for it is not a heaven but only the flame of a blazing 6 fire, and the voice of weeping and crying and lamentation and strong pain.' And he said unto me: ' This place which thou seest-here are cast the spirits of sinners and blasphemers, and of those who work wickedness, and of those who pervert everything that the Lord hath spoken through the mouth 7 of the prophets-(even) the things that shall be. For some of them are written and inscribed above in the heaven, in order that the angels may read them and know that which shall befall the sinners, and the spirits of the humble, and of those who have afflicted their bodies, and been recompensed 8 by God; and of those who have been put to shame by wicked men: Who love God and loved neither gold nor silver nor any of the good things which are in the world, but gave over their bodies to torture. Who, since they came into being, longed not after earthly food, but regarded everything as a passing breath, and lived accordingly, and the Lord tried them much, and their spirits were 10 found pure so that they should bless His name. And all the blessings destined for them I have recounted in the books. And he hath assigned them their recompense, because they have been found to be such as loved heaven more than their life in the world, and though they were trodden under foot of wicked men, and experienced abuse and reviling from them and were put to shame, 11 yet they blessed Me. And now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh were not recompensed 12 with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who 13 have loved My holy name, and I will seat each on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number; for righteousness is the judgement of God; for to the faithful 14 He will give faithfulness in the habitation of upright paths. And they shall see those who were , 15 born in darkness led into darkness, while the righteous shall be resplendent. And the sinners shall cry aloud and see them resplendent, and they indeed will go where days and seasons are prescribed for them.'

[/QUOTE]
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Ok, but fire? real fire? It would seem if that is the case, whatever was thrown into that would be destroyed, not live forever. Where could this place or torment be?
You should read the descriptions of God's throne in heaven that Enoch gave: There's Fire, and then, there's "fire".
In Daniel's record, the three Hebrew young men were thrown in a furnace of fire and walked about, unharmed, in their own human being bodies. Those who threw them in died in the flames.

Dan 3:22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
Dan 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Dan 3:27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

Abraham was also cast alive into a furnace of fire "the UR" of Casdim, by Nimrod. He was cast there with his brother Haran. Abram. however, walked about for three days without harm, and some [eight] of the men who were told to retrieve him, by Nimrod, died by the heat, trying.

Jasher =the Upright Record, chapter 12:15-45;
-ignore the numbers 1-31. They came when I copied and pasted but won't go away.

  1. And the king said Who advised thee to this? Tell me, do not hide aught from me, and then thou shalt not die.
  2. And Terah was greatly terrified in the king's presence, and he said to the king, It was Haran my eldest son who advised me to this; and Haran was in those days that Abram was born, two and thirty years old.
  3. But Haran did not advise his father to anything, for Terah said this to the king in order to deliver his soul from the king, for he feared greatly; and the king said to Terah, Haran thy son who advised thee to this shall die through fire with Abram; for the sentence of death is upon him for having rebelled against the king's desire in doing this thing.
  4. And Haran at that time felt inclined to follow the ways of Abram, but he kept it within himself.
  5. And Haran said in his heart, Behold now the king has seized Abram on account of these things which Abram did, and it shall come to pass, that if Abram prevail over the king I will follow him, but if the king prevail I will go after the king.
  6. And when Terah had spoken this to the king concerning Haran his son, the king ordered Haran to be seized with Abram.
  7. And they brought them both, Abram and Haran his brother, to cast them into the fire; and all the inhabitants of the land and the king's servants and princes and all the women and little ones were there, standing that day over them.
  8. And the king's servants took Abram and his brother, and they stripped them of all their clothes excepting their lower garments which were upon them.
  9. And they bound their hands and feet with linen cords, and the servants of the king lifted them up and cast them both into the furnace.
  10. And the Lord loved Abram and he had compassion over him, and the Lord came down and delivered Abram from the fire and he was not burned.
  11. But all the cords with which they bound him were burned, while Abram remained and walked about in the fire.
  12. And Haran died when they had cast him into the fire, and he was burned to ashes, for his heart was not perfect with the Lord; and those men who cast him into the fire, the flame of the fire spread over them, and they were burned, and twelve men of them died.
  13. And Abram walked in the midst of the fire three days and three nights, and all the servants of the king saw him walking in the fire, and they came and told the king, saying, Behold we have seen Abram walking about in the midst of the fire, and even the lower garments which are upon him are not burned, but the cord with which he was bound is burned.
  14. And when the king heard their words his heart fainted and he would not believe them; so he sent other faithful princes to see this matter, and they went and saw it and told it to the king; and the king rose to go and see it, and he saw Abram walking to and fro in the midst of the fire, and he saw Haran's body burned, and the king wondered greatly.
  15. And the king ordered Abram to be taken out from the fire; and his servants approached to take him out and they could not, for the fire was round about and the flame ascending toward them from the furnace.
  16. And the king's servants fled from it, and the king rebuked them, saying, Make haste and bring Abram out of the fire that you shall not die.
  17. And the servants of the king again approached to bring Abram out, and the flames came upon them and burned their faces so that eight of them died.
  18. And when the king saw that his servants could not approach the fire lest they should be burned, the king called to Abram, O servant of the God who is in heaven, go forth from amidst the fire and come hither before me; and Abram hearkened to the voice of the king, and he went forth from the fire and came and stood before the king.
  19. And when Abram came out the king and all his servants saw Abram coming before the king, with his lower garments upon him, for they were not burned, but the cord with which he was bound was burned.
  20. And the king said to Abram, How is it that thou wast not burned in the fire?
  21. And Abram said to the king, The God of heaven and earth in whom I trust and who has all in his power, he delivered me from the fire into which thou didst cast me.
  22. And Haran the brother of Abram was burned to ashes, and they sought for his body, and they found it consumed.
  23. And Haran was eighty-two years old when he died in the fire of Casdim. And the king, princes, and inhabitants of the land, seeing that Abram was delivered from the fire, they came and bowed down to Abram.
  24. And Abram said to them, Do not bow down to me, but bow down to the God of the world who made you, and serve him, and go in his ways for it is he who delivered me from out of this fire, and it is he who created the souls and spirits of all men, and formed man in his mother's womb, and brought him forth into the world, and it is he who will deliver those who trust in him from all pain.
  25. And this thing seemed very wonderful in the eyes of the king and princes, that Abram was saved from the fire and that Haran was burned; and the king gave Abram many presents and he gave him his two head servants from the king's house; the name of one was Oni and the name of the other was Eliezer.
  26. And all the kings, princes and servants gave Abram many gifts of silver and gold and pearl, and the king and his princes sent him away, and he went in peace.
  27. And Abram went forth from the king in peace, and many of the king's servants followed him, and about three hundred men joined him.
  28. And Abram returned on that day and went to his father's house, he and the men that followed him, and Abram served the Lord his God all the days of his life, and he walked in his ways and followed his law.
  29. And from that day forward Abram inclined the hearts of the sons of men to serve the Lord.
  30. And at that time Nahor and Abram took unto themselves wives, the daughters of their brother Haran; the wife of Nahor was Milca and the name of Abram's wife was Sarai. And Sarai, wife of Abram, was barren; she had no offspring in those days.
  31. And at the expiration of two years from Abram's going out of the fire, that is in the fifty-second year of his life, behold king Nimrod sat in Babel upon the throne, and the king fell asleep and dreamed that he was standing with his troops and hosts in a valley opposite the king's furnace...
http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/12.htm [it really is not anonymous. Moses and Joshua recorded it, they said, in Jasher, and Moses used the records of the Patriarchs in doing so].
Some bits of those Patriarch's records [called "testaments]. were preserved among the Dead Sea Scrolls
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Wow, that is fascinating. Have never read that before.

(Probably will be having nightmares tonight. )
No need for nightmares, cause your name is written in the Book of Life; and because you believe in and follow Jesus, it will not be blotted out.

One can weep, however, when one thinks of the irreversible state of the lost, at the end.
Enoch wept much when he was shown all things, and said they must come and all things must be fulfilled.
1 Enoch 90: 41...Then I wept with a great weeping and my tears stayed not till I could no longer endure it: when I saw, they flowed on account of what I had seen; for everything shall come and 42 be fulfilled, and all the deeds of men in their order were shown to me. On that night I remembered the first dream, and because of it I wept and was troubled-because I had seen that vision.

1Enoch 108:
And I asked one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto him: ' What is this shining thing? for it is not a heaven but only the flame of a blazing 6 fire, and the voice of weeping and crying and lamentation and strong pain.' And he said unto me: ' This place which thou seest-here are cast the spirits of sinners and blasphemers, and of those who work wickedness, and of those who pervert everything that the Lord hath spoken through the mouth 7 of the prophets-(even) the things that shall be. For some of them are written and inscribed above in the heaven, in order that the angels may read them and know that which shall befall the sinners, and the spirits of the humble, and of those

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=8&v=12&t=KJV#12
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.
Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Is this the same Enoch who is briefly mentioned in the book of Genesis?
Yes, and by the author of Hebrews and by Jude.

Enoch's translation as told in his own words and also in the "Upright Record" -the [real] Book of Jasher were the source of the statements made in Hebrews about that. He "pleased God" [recorded in 1 Enoch], and "he was not found" [recorded in the Upright Record/Jasher].

He is also an ish " clothed in linen", who was seen and heard, as the voice of an Adam, in Daniel, and in Revelation, who told John not to worship him, when he was in heaven in heaven, for he was of his brethren, the prophets.
 
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Yes, and by the author of Hebrews and by Jude.

Enoch's translation as told in his own words and also in the "Upright Record" -the [real] Book of Jasher were the source of the statements made in Hebrews about that. He "pleased God" [recorded in 1 Enoch], and "he was not found" [recorded in the Upright Record/Jasher].

He is also an ish " clothed in linen", who was seen and heard, as the voice of an Adam, in Daniel, and in Revelation, who told John not to worship him, when he was in heaven in heaven, for he was of his brethren, the prophets.

I'm wondering if he's also the scribe in Ezekiel...?

Eze 9:2And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I'm wondering if he's also the scribe in Ezekiel...?

Eze 9:2And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit [a scribe] at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar.
And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit [a scribe] at his side.
Probably.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Enoch is called "a scribe of righteousness", by the Watchers [sons of God] who did not rebel in fornication.

[Chapter 12]
1 Before these things Enoch was hidden, and no one of the children of men knew where he was 2 hidden, and where he abode, and what had become of him. And his activities had to do with the Watchers, and his days were with the holy ones. 3 And I Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the King of the ages, and lo! the Watchers 4 called me -Enoch the scribe- and said to me: 'Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves 5 wives: "Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness 6 of sin: and inasmuch as they delight themselves in their children, The murder of their beloved ones shall they see, and over the destruction of their children shall they lament, and shall make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain."'
 
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PROPHECYKID

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In Revelation, the term "lake of fire" is used to describe hell, or the final punishment of the beast, false prophet and sinful people.

Like many things in Revelation, it is not clear whether this is a literal place or symbolic of something else.

If it was a literal "lake" or "pit" of fire, it seems that anyone placed in such would not live forever but would quickly perish. So, maybe it is symbolic of something else.

Any ideas?

You raise a very legitimate concern. Some things wont add up if you think that hell will last forever. Because then the lake of fire cannot be on earth because God will recreate a new heaven and a new earth. God will not recreate the earth with hell on some side of the earth. The bible tells us that the lake of fire will be on the earth.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

We must too keep in mind that in instances in the bible where destruction occurs it is described as being forever but indeed it is not forever.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah are not burning today. No. Peter puts it in a different way.

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Ashes cannot burn forever. The wicked will not burn forever.

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Look at another example.

1Ch 28:4 Howbeit the LORD God of Israel chose me before all the house of my father to be king over Israel for ever: for he hath chosen Judah to be the ruler; and of the house of Judah, the house of my father; and among the sons of my father he liked me to

How long was David king over Israel? Not forever for sure. Do a word search in the bible on the word for ever. You will see many more texts which shows that the word for ever has a different meaning at certain times. It does not always mean forever as we know it. It sometimes mean for as long as circumstances allow it. For the wicked to be burned up the fire must stop sometimes or else they cannot be burned up. Forever simply means that they burn until they are left to ashes and cannot burn anymore. Forever explains a time period of completion of purpose.

The fire that burns forever burns until it completes it purpose. Peter shows that the earth is going to be consumed by fire and then God is going to recreate the earth. The fire must stop. Believing that the fire is indeed forever means that some scriptures will need some explaining. Beliefs that are not firm always leads to theories unsupported by scripture to explain certain things. People say that the lake of fire will not be on earth in order the explain its eternal burning. That is extremely unbiblical. Some say it burns in the center of the earth. All these explanations in an attempt to explain how this fire can burn forever. It cannot burn forever

Speaking of Lucifer:

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.


Ashes again. The devil will be turned into ashes with fire. Eternal fire. Not fire which burns forever but fire which burns until its purpose is complete. Fire which burns until there is nothing left to burn.





 
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Mark2010

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Ok, so the devil and wicked are cast into fire, burned up and THEN the earth is destroyed and remade? Interesting.

One commentary I read actually suggested the "lake of fire" might be a star somewhere in outer space. But again, anyone put there would be consumed and destroyed rather quickly.

20:15 lake of fire. The lake of fire is obviously not located on this present earth, for this present earth will have burned up and “fled away” (Revelation 20:11) by this time; yet the lake of fire will have been burning continuously for more than a thousand years (Revelation 19:20). Neither will it be on the new earth, for that will be the home of “the Lord God Almighty” (Revelation 21:22), whereas “[they] that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power” (II Thessalonians 1:8-9).
The word “destruction” does not mean annihilation, but “ruin.” Thus, the unsaved will be moved far, far away from the presence of the Lord, and there they will remain forever. They may well be translated to a far distant dark star, for a star is itself a lake of fire, and the lost are said to be like “wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever” (Jude 13). There they must continue in their sinful state, hating God, never resting, without light, without love, without peace, without anything that speaks of the presence or power of God, forever.
 
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