Gays versus Christians

MarcusHill · Nov 7, 2008

WatersMoon110 said:
It's really more of a "many shades of grey" rather than a "black, white, or grey" matter, it seems.

"Many shades of gay", then.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

WatersMoon110 said:
What about the percentage of Christians who support equal rights for all people (including teh gheys)? Did we suddenly stop existing in your Black or White "reality"?

people that violate scripture unfortunately are all too common these days. Even in the Church. There is no such thing as equal marriage in the same-gender category.

And in those "Black" Churches, they are Christian socialists, and as California has proven, many of those Black Christians know the definition of marriage. There is only one kind to Christ Jesus. So do the math.

So why don't you stop breathing fire? *wink*

You're the ones getting all heated up because i oppose you. I just kick back and watch the Sodomites scream when I ask for decency.

Lot was supposedly a good and honest man, I don't see how you can compare yourself to him...

Look at the people gathered around my posts. The typical rabble. I may not be Lot, but I sure can get a picture of hisn neighborhood. I have to drive through it and work in it five days a week.

But, seriously, I don't think that it is even possible to rape angels.

Not when you are blind or have been blinded. Those Anegls were no dummies.

Nor has anyone in here yet advocated raping anyone.

Obviously those that voted Yes on Prop 8 have a differing opiion than yours.

The sin of Sodom was inhospitality.

Gee, ya think?

I only see one person currently in here that is being inhospitable. And that person isn't on "teh ghey" side.

No that one single person is on Lot's side.

C'mon now, do the math.

:groupray:

-----There are people outside screaming that they want to "know" us. They don't look very nice about it though. We had better stay behind this locked door.

:groupray:

----What was THAT? Boy, those people sure are inhospitable.

brightmorningstar · Nov 7, 2008

With regards the OP, I think gay can be seen to be fundamentally anti-Christian for a number of reasons.
Certainly a number of remarks have been made on these forums about removing the religious objections and dealing with secular ones only same sex unons are vaible. So there is evidence of gay rights being anti Christian as anti-religious.
I would also point out that in the UK we have a Gay Police Association (GPA), which produced an advert concerning violence against homosexuals that showed a bible next to a pool of blood under the heading "in the name of the father". Why this attack on Christianity alone? Surely Islam's attitude and treatment of homosexuals and homosexuality is even more strict and severe. I mean how do we know these incidents were by Christians? Surely such incidents if they were by people who called themselves Christians would only be as guilty of ingoring Biblical teaching to love ones neighbour, as gays ignore Biblical teaching on same sex condemnations.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
With regards the OP, I think gay can be seen to be fundamentally anti-Christian for a number of reasons.
Certainly a number of remarks have been made on these forums about removing the religious objections and dealing with secular ones only same sex unons are vaible. So there is evidence of gay rights being anti Christian as anti-religious.

It is Gays (GLBT's) versus Christians and it really isn't even hidden anymore.

As in:

I would also point out that in the UK we have a Gay Police Association (GPA), which produced an advert concerning violence against homosexuals that showed a bible next to a pool of blood under the heading "in the name of the father". Why this attack on Christianity alone?

Darkness trying to extinquish the Light or alter it to a different color. Notice the rainbow divides light. This is an age-old situation.

Surely Islam's attitude and treatment o

f homosexuals and homosexuality is even more strict and severe. I mean how do we know these incidents were by Christians? Surely such incidents if they were by people who called themselves Christians would only be as guilty of ingoring Biblical teaching to love ones neighbour, as gays ignore Biblical teaching on same sex condemnations.

Christians in the 21st century do not resort to mob violence when their religion is insulted or their beliefs attacked, We just move past the Christ in a jar of urine at the publically funded art museums and go to more decent artwork.

And then we go home and pray where it is still legal to do so.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

It took seconds to find this blog. Click on the link for photos:

http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2006/10/gay-police-association-guilty-of-faith.html

Gay Police Association guilty of 'faith crime'

Click to expand...

Remember this advertisement by the Gay Police Association? Well, the Christians have won a rare victory. The advertisement received 533 complaints – more than any other this year – and the GPA has been banned from using it again, after the Advertising Standards Authority upheld assertions that it breaches codes covering truthfulness, accuracy and offence.

Cranmer reported on this earlier, and it was his considered opinion that it constituted a ‘faith crime’ against Christians. The ASA accused the GPA of making ‘false claims’ that Christians were responsible for a sharp rise in 'hate crime' attacks on homosexuals. They also found:

• The GPA failed to provide evidence backing up the claims of an increase in attacks.
• Used images of spilt blood to give the impression that all the incidents involved violence. This was not true.
• Falsely implied Christians were responsible for the incidents it was highlighting. In fact, even the GPA admitted that around a quarter of allegations involved Muslims.

It is the last of this points that interests His Grace. A massive 25% of these ‘homophobic' attacks involved Muslims, yet the GPA would not have dared to juxtapose the Qur’an with blood. They chose to focus on the unsubstantiated assertion that Christians were the principal offenders. The advertisement was therefore a deliberate attempt to stir up hatred against Christians. Unfortunately, the CPS has ruled out prosecution, but it is reported that the officers involved could face disciplinary action.

Cranmer rather doubts that they will. It was, after all, only the Christians who took offence

-----Shh, there are policemen outside.

brightmorningstar · Nov 7, 2008

Thanks Polycarp_fan,
I see that whilst a quarter were Muslim it falsely implied Christians were responsible.
Hmmn. thats about a big an idication of gay vs Christian as we can see.
Yet hang on, I have gay friends, the problem surely isnt gays, but gay rights lobbies and activists.

Garyzenuf · Nov 7, 2008

Polycarp_fan said:
-----There are people outside screaming that they want to "know" us. They don't look very nice about it though. We had better stay behind this locked door...

...and send the women out instead, wasn't that how the "good" men of the bible placated the rapists, or was that somewhere else in the bible?

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

Garyzenuf said:
...and send the women out instead, wasn't that how the "good" men of the bible placated the rapists, or was that somewhere else in the bible?

Thank you for showing that it was sexual perversion and not "inhospitality" that the Sodomites desired.

Why is it that "progressive" means going back to their time?

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
Thanks Polycarp_fan,
I see that whilst a quarter were Muslim it falsely implied Christians were responsible.
Hmmn. thats about a big an idication of gay vs Christian as we can see.
Yet hang on, I have gay friends, the problem surely isnt gays, but gay rights lobbies and activists.

Notice I always use "gay activists, gay activism and gay culture?" I have freinds that engage in homosexual sex too. Not a one supports same-gender marriage. Otherwise, we wouldn't be friends.

This has gained me international attention, the way I handle this malevolent force and crisis coming at the Church.

KCKID · Nov 7, 2008

Polycarp_fan said:
This has gained me international attention, the way I handle this malevolent force and crisis coming at the Church.

You know, PC_F, these days I just flick through your posts while stifling a yawn since I came to realize a while back that they generally only speak volumes about your own perceived righteousness and your glaringly obvious smugness. And, if you are gaining international attention (?) at all for whatever it might be that you claim to be your mission in life I'm sure that these international 'others' will also see from your contributions to this forum how you have become this 'Christian crusader' solely within your own mind. Furthermore, if the truth be known, it's the likes of yourself who are the malevolent force within the Church. Why? Because you and your ilk claim to speak for Jesus but you don't even come close!

For me - and for reasons previously stated - your posts present you as a glaring hypocrite as well as a total bore and a theological snob and you therefore have no credibility whatsoever. You're a Bible-educated Christian ...that is, you're full of words learned by rote but devoid of understanding, empathy, and acceptance of those who may be different from yourself. At least your posts indicate this. You are guilty of the sin of pride. You are pompous. You approve of adultery but disapprove of those with a homosexual orientation. You say that adulterers can repent of their sins (while remaining sexually active within their second or third marriage) but those with a homosexual orientation CANNOT marry but must remain celibate for all of their life. YOUR words, PC_F!

You are the epitome of the biblical Pharisee, PC_F. Like them, your 'righteousness' is as a filthy rag but you don't know this. May God forgive you for usurping His authority by setting yourself up as judge and jury and throwing condemnation at 'selected' others who are no more sinners than are you. Just picture yourself, if that's possible, as one of the teachers of the law (which is what you ARE) who brought the adultress woman to Jesus (John 8:1-11). Then, if you're game, read the rest of the scripture and carefully apply it to yourself. Read it several times or as many times as it takes until you actually come to KNOW Jesus.

Wyzaard · Nov 7, 2008

Polycarp_fan said:
Like the origins of gay culture in ancient Crete or Greece?

Every culture has LGBT members who are accepted and/or not accepted in innumerable ways; sex/gender/orientation conventions are globally multifarious, indicating that such matters have no "Gomorrah" origin point like you seem to think they do.

It fascinates me that you GLBT's seem to be totally incapable of understanding how we feel out here in mother and father land.

LGBT's are in ALL lands... there is no country free of such variety.

And to be fair, I, and obviously the millions and millions of people that stand in opposition to your GLBT cultural aims and goals, cannot seem to buy into your view of things.

Doesn't change the fact that LGBT is a normal, healthy variation of the human condition, and needs to be treated as such for ALL our sakes.

And California Prop 8 was passed on an Obama ballot.

And using bigot-cash and bigot-lies.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

KCKID said:
You know, PC_F, these days I just flick through your posts while stifling a yawn since I came to realize a while back that they generally only speak volumes about your own perceived righteousness and your glaringly obvious smugness.

And yet I only and always appeal to the New Testament a the guide and not my personal opions on Christian matters.

And, if you are gaining international attention (?) at all for whatever it might be that you claim to be your mission in life I'm sure that these international 'others' will also see from your contributions to this forum how you have become this 'Christian crusader' solely within your own mind.

But isn't it fascinating that I am just one of hundreds of millions of fellow Christians all standing firm against the Gay Agenda? So are we to decide that the heretics in the minority are the one true Church, even though they edit out scripture that denies their humanist quest for a new world of Christianity? One that allows sin to be celebrated and encouraged?

Your anger towards my confidence is going to have to have scripture support pal.

Furthermore, if the truth be known, it's the likes of yourself who are the malevolent force within the Church. Why? Because you and your ilk claim to speak for Jesus but you don't even come close!

And yet, in every case I post scriptures UNedited and UNaltered to support my positions. I don't appeal to hysteria or the APA or John Spong. I appeal to Peter, James, John and Jude. Oh yeah, and Paul and Jesus.

For me - and for reasons previously stated - your posts present you as a glaring hypocrite as well as a total bore and a theological snob and you therefore have no credibility whatsoever.

I don't seek credibility in your humanist world. I seek to stay as far away from it as I can get. Satan sounds far more like he's preaching humanism than he does a Bible-affirming sermon.

You're a Bible-educated Christian ...

On that I am joyfully plead guilty.

. . . that is, you're full of words learned by rote but devoid of understanding, empathy, and acceptance of those who may be different from yourself.

You do not accpet enemies. You love them but oppose them for what they are, say, and do. I am not the one presenting lies. I may not be the comfy little bash-me-and-I'll cry kind of Christian you desire me to be, but my doctrine is sound.

At least your posts indicate this.

I go out of my way to present a solid stance against the pompous reprobates that demand we submit to their rule. I just show them what they are. If they don't like the truth, they should enbrace it.

You are guilty of the sin of pride.

I plead not guilty. You have no proof against me. None. My appeals to Apostolic authority are well placed and sound morality.

You are pompous.

I plead guilty. Too bad if you were expecting a Christian that wouldn't fight back against the base positions of the typical anti-Christian.

Confidence in the Gospel and Christ is nothing I'll worry about come judgment day.

You approve of adultery but disapprove of those with a homosexual orientation.

Wrong again pal. The Bible? That is my guide to sins and sinning, repentance and forgiveness. If you can't understand intricate concepts spelled out clearly in scripture that is not my fault.

You say that adulterers can repent of their sins (while remaining sexually active within their second or third marriage) but those with a homosexual orientation CANNOT marry but must remain celibate for all of their life. YOUR words, PC_F!

And taken from the New Testament record. Jesus didn't tell the woman at the well to leave her last lover. And she wasn't even married to the guy. Although I applaud your conservative hell-fire and brimstone preaching here, the fact is, once a person is forgiven their sins are no longer present. Ever raed Psalm 51? It's a blueprint for the Born-Again concept.
And it is not my fault that there is no such thing as same-gender marriage for Christians. It is not my fault that Peter didn;t have a dream about same-gender sex being OK for believers after he had his dream about forbidden foods being acceptable. But if you want to kick adulterers out of your Church, go for it. You already seem to care nothing for scriptural truth.

You are the epitome of the biblical Pharisee, PC_F. Like them, your 'righteousness' is as a filthy rag but you don't know this.

Again, your judgment will not find basis for a conviction. I submit to the authority of Christ Jesus, not your political agenda. You may accuse me of being a liar about how I believe in the Apostolic witness, but my use of the Bible unedited is not going to bring you a conviction of me.

May God forgive you for usurping His authority by setting yourself up as judge and jury and throwing condemnation at 'selected' others who are no more sinners than are you.

I'm not to engage in gay sex either. So, where am I going wrong? Who am I leading astray with my behaviors? Who am I encouraging to sin? Remember, Jesus said that that was a worse sin than just sinning. I do not sponsor adultery pride parades anywhere.

Just picture yourself, if that's possible, as one of the teachers of the law (which is what you ARE) who brought the adultress woman to Jesus (John 8:1-11). Then, if you're game, read the rest of the scripture and carefully apply it to yourself. Read it several times or as many times as it takes until you actually come to KNOW Jesus.

The Jesus that taught that marriage was a man and a woman? That Jesus?

I'm thinking I got that one right. I do so desire to submit to scriptural truth.

In the next post I'll do as you request about John 8.

:groupray:

-----No, seriously, they don't believe the Bible and alter it wherever they don't like what it says.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

KCKID said:
Just picture yourself, if that's possible, as one of the teachers of the law (which is what you ARE) who brought the adultress woman to Jesus (John 8:1-11). Then, if you're game, read the rest of the scripture and carefully apply it to yourself. Read it several times or as many times as it takes until you actually come to KNOW Jesus.

Let's read it together, but before we start, how many of your liberal/progressive pals believe the following actually, really happened?

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." The Validity of Jesus' Testimony

12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

13The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

14Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

19Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"
"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.
21Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."
22This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?"

23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,[a] you will indeed die in your sins."

25"Who are you?" they asked.

"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world."
27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." 30Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him. The Children of Abraham

31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"
34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father."
39"Abraham is our father," they answered.

"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does."
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself." The Children of the Devil

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
The Claims of Jesus About Himself

48The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"

49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

52At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"

54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

Anyone seen KCKID?

He's got work to do on post #254

and #255

OphidiaPhile · Nov 7, 2008

Polycarp_fan said:
Thank you for showing that it was sexual perversion and not "inhospitality" that the Sodomites desired.

Why is it that "progressive" means going back to their time?

Sexual perversion is a good thing and my gf will attest to that.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

OphidiaPhile said:
Sexual perversion is a good thing and my gf will attest to that.

OKyeahfinesure.

Excuse me now, have you seen KCKID?

Atlantians · Nov 7, 2008

HighwayMan said:
To be honest, I don't think there's much to discuss. People who believe gays can't be Christians, and the like, follow a fundamentalist mindset that is non-responsive to intellectual debates or reason.

Please prove through reason and intellectual argument how this is true of me, a Christian who says that a Christian can not be a true Christian if they are living a homosexual lifestyle.

They isolate verses from the Bible and immediately discredit as "not following God's word" any explanation that might brand those verses in a different light or give them other meanings. You can not reason with that.

So please explain to me in a rational and intellectual manner... how Romans 1 does not say that 'men gave up the natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another' and likewise 'women gave up the natural relations with men and were inflamed with lust for one another' does not say that homosexual behavior is immoral and unnatural.

Please further explain how 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does not refer to those involved in homosexual behavior as 'not being able to inherit the Kingdom of God.

If you want to address any other verses... go right ahead.

Wyzaard said:
Every culture has LGBT members who are accepted and/or not accepted in innumerable ways; sex/gender/orientation conventions are globally multifarious, indicating that such matters have no "Gomorrah" origin point like you seem to think they do.

Greco-Roman culture, and even more specifically Hellenistic culture, highly supported homosexual behavior.

LGBT's are in ALL lands... there is no country free of such variety.

Except Iran...

Doesn't change the fact that LGBT is a normal, healthy variation of the human condition, and needs to be treated as such for ALL our sakes.

Prove it is healthy, prove it is normal, and please prove why it 'should' be treated as such.

More specifically on that last point... please prove what basis you havfe as an agnostic for believing anything 'should' be done. What basis do you have for saying something 'should' occur.

And using bigot-cash and bigot-lies.

How tolerant and open-minded of you to say.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

Atlantians said:
Please prove through reason and intellectual argument how this is true of me, a Christian who says that a Christian can not be a true Christian if they are living a homosexual lifestyle.

So please explain to me in a rational and intellectual manner... how Romans 1 does not say that 'men gave up the natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another' and likewise 'women gave up the natural relations with men and were inflamed with lust for one another' does not say that homosexual behavior is immoral and unnatural.

Please further explain how 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does not refer to those involved in homosexual behavior as 'not being able to inherit the Kingdom of God.

If you want to address any other verses... go right ahead.

Greco-Roman culture, and even more specifically Hellenistic culture, highly supported homosexual behavior.

Prove it is healthy, prove it is normal, and please prove why it 'should' be treated as such.

More specifically on that last point... please prove what basis you havfe as an agnostic for believing anything 'should' be done. What basis do you have for saying something 'should' occur.

How tolerant and open-minded of you to say.

Well said. We need more free thinkers around here.

:groupray:

-----Atlantians seems so nice huh?

KCKID · Nov 7, 2008

Polycarp_fan said:
Excuse me now, have you seen KCKID?

I DO have human traits, PC_F. This includes having to sleep.

I also have a busy day ahead but I'll get back to you ASAP.

Polycarp_fan · Nov 7, 2008

KCKID said:
I DO have human traits, PC_F. This includes having to sleep.

I also have a busy day ahead but I'll get back to you ASAP.

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