pray to mary? Confess sins to man?

I think you have the wrong forum ...

Originally posted by bigonbible
I don't understand !  if the Bible is the inerrant word of God, how can the Catholic faith openly and without guilt do the opposite from God's teachings?

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I can answer that very simply and put your mind at ease.

The Catholic Church does not, has not, and never will teach ANYTHING contrary to the Word of God as contained in the Deposit of Faith.

If you believe that the Church does this then that is your misunderstanding. Don't worry though. It's nothing a little education won't fix. Read the Catholic FAQ's thread at the top of this forum. Then come back and post a specific question about a specific practice that you are confused about. Knowledgeable Catholics will then proceed to explain the Catholic position, not so that you will agree, but merely so that you might understand.

Peace be with you.

Sorry bigonbible - I thought you were "attacking" the Catholic faith and that this thread would be more appropriate in the other forum (the meeting place for Protestants, Jewish, Catholic faiths). However, if you are truly interested in learning about the Catholic faith - then by all means, what ZooMom said

Originally posted by bigonbible
How can Catholics pray to mary

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By the Communion of Saints. Christ's Body is whole. And very much alive. If you do not believe that those who have died in Christ are alive in heaven, and still part of the Body of Christ, then your faith is in vain. I'll be back shortly with the appropriate Scripture.

Catholics believe that the saints who have died before us are alive in Heaven and with our Lord.

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

We believe that the Body of Christ is WHOLE. That includes the saints on earth and the Saints in Heaven.

Romans 12:5 so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.

1 Corinthians 12:12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

We believe that asking for intercessory prayer from our brothers and sisters in Christ is entirely Scriptural and extremely profitable.

Matthew 21:22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

Romans 15:30 I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me.

2 Corinthians 1:11 as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our[1] behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many.

Ephesians 6:18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone--

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

and ask confess their sins to a priest?

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Again, I'll be back with Scripture, but we are told to confess our sins to each other.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

James 5:16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

The Church also believes in Apostolic Succession, or the laying on of hands to confer priestly ordination and authority, and the Apostles were given the authority to 'bind and loose', 'forgive or not forgive'.

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

John 20:21 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

The veil was wrent at Jesus's death which negated the need for priests , right?

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Nope. It did away with only priests having exclusive access to God. Christ's Sacrifice opened the Gates of Heaven. There are no barriers now between us and God, except those of our own making. IOW, sin. Sin separates us from God because sin is turning away from God's Will. When we repent of our sin (contrition), acknowledge the sin (confession), and resolve to sin no more (penance), then we are Reconcilled to God. The priest has the authority to assist us with this because of Christ's own words to the Apostles.

No problem. I'm running to and fro right now trying to put the gremlins in bed. When they stop popping back out, we can get down to business.

Originally posted by bigonbible
I don't understand !  if the Bible is the inerrant word of God, how can the Catholic faith openly and without guilt do the opposite from God's teachings?

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Hi Jim,

I'll try to address them:

 

-=Intercession of the saints and Mary=-

 

Catholic don't pray to Mary, but rather they ask her to intercede on their behalf.  Naturally, someone would say, "Why do that!? You can just go to Jesus".  Exactly.  We can. 

However, some would argue, "Then why ask her to intercede?  You're violating the mediatorship of our lord!" But then why would Paul ask brothers to pray for him (Col 4:3, 1 Thess 5:25, cf Heb 13:18), when he could've easily asked Jesus to intercede for him?

So it's like me going up to you asking for prayer.  But then one might also object, "Hey, they're dead, how can you ask dead people to pray for you when they're clearly not living!?" 

Yet, Jesus says very clearly that brethren who are physically dead are living, and perhaps more alive than us (Mark 12:27, Luke 20:38).

So now that we've established the reality of those in heaven.  We have to understand that the body of Christ is on earth AND heaven (Eph 3:15), and that the body is one unit working together (Eph 4:4, 25).

As for asking them to intercede for us, in Revelation we see a picture of an angel holding a bowl which had the prayer of ALL the saints (Rev 5:8).  Now I think the word 'all' is very clear:  all the saints, including those in heaven.

Now I don't understand the 'physics' of heaven or how we are somehow with all our heavenly brethren (Heb 12:1, Heb 12:22-24), but the fact is Catholics have been continually asking our heavenly brethren to intercede for us, even long before the NT was put together in the bible.  I trust the church's judgment on this

 

-=Confessing sins to man=-

Now, I must admit, I don't fully understand confession, but I do know that one does NOT have to go to a priest to confess sins, if it's not a mortal sin.  Catholics teach that all mortal sins must be confessed to priests.  Mortal sins refer to sins like murder, rape, and other 'not-so-easy' to commit sins (if you get what I mean).  With other 'lesser' sins, one does not need to go to a priest.

Anyway, the apostles were given the authority to literally forgive sins (John 20:23, cf. Matt 6:15).  And this authority was passed from the apostles to those who they laid hands on, and of course this is referring to apostolic succession, where Jesus laid his hands upon the apostles to ordain them, and then the apostles did the same for those under them, and so on.  I think Jesus also passed his authority to forgive sins (Matt 9:6), to the apostles, that would explani John 20:23.

In anycase, James teaches that believers should confess one's sins to one another (James 5:16).  I think this is enough reason to confess sins to one another, since it brings about healing:

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. (James 5:16)


Hope this helps!

-Jason

Originally posted by bigonbible
Matthew 6:9-15 ; Luke 11: 1-13 We are told how and who to pray to. Correct

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Hi Jim

The Lord's prayer is very 'catholic' =P

"...your will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." (this shows how what goes on in heaven is reflected on earth, the book of Revelation for example is a picture of heavenly worship.  Mass is a direct reflection of that.)

"give us today our daily bread. " (Sounds like an allusion to a daily Eucharist, like what Catholics do)

"...Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors..." (Compare with John 20:23, Matt 6:15, James 5:16)

God bless!

-Jason

Originally posted by bigonbible
Sandy, Colossians 3: 15 - 17 . Does it not tell us to do everything in word and deed in the name of Jesus Christ.

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Hi Jim,

Now that I think about it, that passage seems to reinforce the idea that priests should forgiven sins (in the name of Jesus Christ), because they're basically 'speaking the very words of God' (1 Peter 4:11), so the priest is merely an instrument of God proclaiming truth.  Hope this helps =)

And hopefully, I'm not making a mistake here

-Jason

Catholics ask all things in Christ's Name.

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

But that doesn't mean that He is the only Person we should ever speak to. Catholics go to the Saints because they have finished the race that we are still running. They have been perfected and are in the Presence of God. The prayers of a righteous man... The only thing we ever expect the Saints to to is pray for us, interceed for us, just as we ask our earthly brothers and sisters to pray for us, because we are One Body.


Oh, I added the Scriptures to my original post, if you want to go back.

Originally posted by bigonbible
It does help Jason, but Jesus said to pray for to the Father in my name , correct? seems clear how we are to pray. Where does the Bible instruct us to literally pray to Mary?

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Catholics do NOT pray to Mary.

Also keep in mind that not everything the apostles may've said as authoritative truth is in the bible.  This is where Sacred Tradition comes in.

In anycase, I'll say it again, Catholics do NOT pray to Mary.  Unfortunately this term is commonly misunderstood.  When some say 'pray to mary', they refer that to mean, "Ask mary to pray for us".

When others say 'pray to mary', they understand it to mean, 'pray to Mary as if she's some sort of deity'.  She's not a diety.

And if you're saying we shouldn't ever ask others for prayer requests, then how about asking other brothers to pray for someone's needs? (Col 4:3, 1 Thess 5:25, cf Heb 13:18)

Paul literally asks brothers to pray for him.  What's wrong with asking saints in heaven to pray for you or me?

God bless!

-Jason