McCain/Obama - Facts

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mont974x4

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I am not a one issue voter either, but abortion is a huge one.

get the government out of it and there'd be less of an issue. I support Lifeway Pregnancy Center here, it is a Christ-centered option to the abortion mill of Planned Parenthood.
 
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BillynJennifer

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I agree, BillynJennifer.

Can't say more though, not without the risk of offending or alienating others, which I really don't want to do. :sigh:

I used to belong to a forum where the buzz-word for a very dangerous thread was said to have footfalls following it.

This thread is getting a might dangerous for me. I am hearing the footfalls of the powers that be getting real close.
 
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EternalSummer

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I am not a one issue voter either, but abortion is a huge one.

I respect your right to hold your opinion on the matter. But I do not consider it as "big" an issue as things which individuals do not have it in their own power to do something about individually. So long as contraception and alternatives are freely available to the population, abortion remains a matter each individual can take steps to prevent. For me, the big issues would be those things which impact individuals' lives which they cannot, individually, do anything about except suffer under.

I also do not believe anyone genuinely familiar with the whole of Planned Parenthood's work could, in good conscience, call the organization an "abortion mill". That's an unfair characterization based upon emotionalism and reactionism rather than fact. I would encourage you to acquaint yourself with the facts of ALL their services as well as their overall philosophy and approach, because I perceive you to be a man of good conscience. God bless.
 
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Redheadedstepchild

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Stop. Politics may be discussed in the main forum however debate is not allowed. If you wish to debate abortion or a particular candidates views you will need to start a new thread in the sub forum for debate.

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SpiritPsalmist

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Abortion is always such a hot button when it comes to us Christians. What I don't understand is that we get all vocal in support of the unborn baby, but our loud mouths get real quiet when it comes to feeding the hungry. We support the unborn, but after you get here--make sure you find your own food...

I don't feel that way at all. If I see someone who's hungry and I got food or money to give them, I give it.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Mont, I'm not a one-issue voter. Abortion is the responsibility of the individual, to take measures against needing one, and society, to provide viable and accessible alternatives to having one. Not the government to criminalize. God bless.

See for yourself what God says about the shedding of innocent blood and the curse it brings on the land that allows it.

  1. Exodus 23:7
    Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
    Exodus 23:6-8 (in Context) Exodus 23 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Deuteronomy 19:10
    That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.
    Deuteronomy 19:9-11 (in Context) Deuteronomy 19 (Whole Chapter)
  3. Deuteronomy 19:13
    Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.
    Deuteronomy 19:12-14 (in Context) Deuteronomy 19 (Whole Chapter)
  4. Deuteronomy 21:8
    Be merciful, O LORD, unto thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of Israel's charge. And the blood shall be forgiven them.
    Deuteronomy 21:7-9 (in Context) Deuteronomy 21 (Whole Chapter)
  5. Deuteronomy 21:9
    So shalt thou put away the guilt of innocent blood from among you, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.
    Deuteronomy 21:8-10 (in Context) Deuteronomy 21 (Whole Chapter)
  6. Deuteronomy 27:25
    Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
    Deuteronomy 27:24-26 (in Context) Deuteronomy 27 (Whole Chapter)
  7. 2 Kings 21:16
    Moreover Manasseh shed innocent blood very much, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another; beside his sin wherewith he made Judah to sin, in doing that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
    2 Kings 21:15-17 (in Context) 2 Kings 21 (Whole Chapter)
  8. 2 Kings 24:4
    And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the LORD would not pardon.
    2 Kings 24:3-5 (in Context) 2 Kings 24 (Whole Chapter)
  9. Psalm 10:8
    He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.
    Psalm 10:7-9 (in Context) Psalm 10 (Whole Chapter)
  10. Psalm 94:21
    They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood.
    Psalm 94:20-22 (in Context) Psalm 94 (Whole Chapter)
  11. Psalm 106:38
    And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
    Psalm 106:37-39 (in Context) Psalm 106 (Whole Chapter)
  12. Proverbs 1:11
    If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
    Proverbs 1:10-12 (in Context) Proverbs 1 (Whole Chapter)
  13. Proverbs 6:17
    A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
    Proverbs 6:16-18 (in Context) Proverbs 6 (Whole Chapter)
  14. Isaiah 59:7
    Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
    Isaiah 59:6-8 (in Context) Isaiah 59 (Whole Chapter)
  15. Jeremiah 2:34
    Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.
    Jeremiah 2:33-35 (in Context) Jeremiah 2 (Whole Chapter)
  16. Jeremiah 7:6
    If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
    Jeremiah 7:5-7 (in Context) Jeremiah 7 (Whole Chapter)
  17. Jeremiah 19:4
    Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
    Jeremiah 19:3-5 (in Context) Jeremiah 19 (Whole Chapter)
  18. Jeremiah 22:3
    Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.
    Jeremiah 22:2-4 (in Context) Jeremiah 22 (Whole Chapter)
  19. Jeremiah 22:17
    But thine eyes and thine heart are not but for thy covetousness, and for to shed innocent blood, and for oppression, and for violence, to do it.
    Jeremiah 22:16-18 (in Context) Jeremiah 22 (Whole Chapter)
  20. Jeremiah 26:15
    But know ye for certain, that if ye put me to death, ye shall surely bring innocent blood upon yourselves, and upon this city, and upon the inhabitants thereof: for of a truth the LORD hath sent me unto you to speak all these words in your ears.
    Jeremiah 26:14-16 (in Context) Jeremiah 26 (Whole Chapter)
  21. Joel 3:19
    Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
    Joel 3:18-20 (in Context) Joel 3 (Whole Chapter)
  22. Jonah 1:14
    Wherefore they cried unto the LORD, and said, We beseech thee, O LORD, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD, hast done as it pleased thee.
    Jonah 1:13-15 (in Context) Jonah 1 (Whole Chapter)
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Post proof or retract.

I just saw this issue being addressed on the news last week. One couples kindergardner brought home from school a new book that the teacher had passed out to each one of a story about a little girl with two mommys. Upon reading it the parents discovered it was about homosexuality. They went to the school board requesting that their child be "opted" out of such teaching. The teacher told them there was no option, it was being taught. They then went to the principle, and the principle told them the same thing. They were even threatened with going to jail if they caused an issue over it..

Heres a story from World Net Daily.
 
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Angel*Eyes

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I had no idea that stuff like this was going on until I came across a website today that was talking about it.

People keep saying that gay rights is a 'little' issue but they don't understand what other consequences it'll have on society.
For gay marriages to be fully accepted in society the government is trying to influence kids while they are young so they'll view it as something normal.

I can't support Obama knowing that he supports homosexual/sex education for little kids.
 
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Angel*Eyes

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I also do not believe anyone genuinely familiar with the whole of Planned Parenthood's work could, in good conscience, call the organization an "abortion mill".
I would encourage you to acquaint yourself with the facts of ALL their services as well as their overall philosophy and approach, because I perceive you to be a man of good conscience. God bless.


I've never been to Planned parenthood's website but I know that there was a BIG uproar over a video on the site.

There was a video of a older man showing 2 teenage boys how to have oral sex. I don't think they sould teach people to do homosexual sex acts.
Hopefully, this video is no longer on the site.
 
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murjahel

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Good for Obama. He thinks about the issues sensibly and leaves personal moral decisions where they belong: strictly between the individual conscience and God.

With that rationale,
would you leave it to 'choice'
whether a parent kills their 5 year old child?

in some societies,
it is left to the husband's choice
whether to beat and or kill the wife...
and if he so chooses, he can kill
the wife, the teenage daughter who
falls in love with a person of another faith,
etc...

Does Obama agree with that
too?

This 'choice' thing is not allowed
for even 'going through red lights'...
but
you think a woman should be able
to murder her child,
and we are to say, well, it is not
a responsibility of ours to say it is
wrong, and we should never make
it illegal to do murder...

I feel very uncomfortable around that

will pray for you
 
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Alpine

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Planned parenthood is the #1 provider of abortions in this country. I am well acquainted with their services.

Abortion is a political issue. Last time I checked it was the Federal government that A) legalized it and B) pays for it with taxpayer funds.

The crux of the abortion debate comes down to if the fetus is a human or not. If it is, then it is the same as murder to have it killed. If it is not, then it is the equivalent of a biopsy.

To argue about peripheral issues is a waste of time. The only matter worth discussing is if the fetus is a human or not.
 
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murjahel

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Slavery used to be legal....
right now there are parts of the country where some are claiming
to be able to do honor killings ... making sections to be under islamic law,
so they can kill their teenage daughter who falls in love with a Christian,
or who decides to be a Christian...

beating one's own wife would also be legal, and divorce couts would have
less business, for it would be cheaper to kill the wife than to pay alimony...

the legality question does not stand a test...
we, as Christians, will find many legal things to be immoral...
and we should seek to elect people who will make what is God's law
to be the law...

God allowed mankind to choose any religion they wanted...
but He still demanded 'thou shalt not kill'...

and whether an unborn babe is a person...
anyone watching medical film of the unborn would have a hard time
not calling those babes...

if a man fought another man, and fell into a pregnant woman,
and she did not lose the baby, the man was fined...
if she lost the baby, the Bible adds 'a life for a life'...
so the Bible called the unborn baby a 'life'...
and taking a 'life' is murder...

Jeremiah was known before he was born...
John the baptist leaped in the womb of Elisabeth when
Mary with the unborn Jesus walked into the same room...
John recognized being in the presence of the Savior whlle the
Savior was still in the womb...

Judas sold his faith for 30 pieces of silver...
some today, could sell theirs for what they think is a 'better health care plan' or for 'more money in their check'...

if Judas had not committed suicide,
I wonder if he would have been elected to lead
the disciples, he did know how to get quite an offering even from
the chief priests, so it would have been so beneficial to have
him where he could get that kind of offerings ...
 
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Angel*Eyes

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Post proof or retract.
California first graders take field trip to gay wedding
http://www.cc.org/blog/california_first_graders_take_field_trip_gay_wedding



Teacher reads 2nd-graders story about 'gay' wedding
Since same-sex marriage is legal in state,
administrator says no parent OK needed
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49813


For those of you who don’t have a problem with the abortion issue what do you think about homosexual education being forced on little kids WITHOUT parental consent?
This is one issue BUT it is a big one.
 
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edie19

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MOD HAT ON

since the previous mod hat in this thread has been ignored, closing thread for staff review and clean-up - there will be post deletions based on CF rule:
Controversial Topics
The following subjects will only be discussed in Ethics & Morality, Christian Philosophy and Ethics, Congregation category, or Recovery category, or any of its sub-forums. You will not post about these subjects in other forums.

drug use

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abortion.

As a reminder - CF did revise their rules recently, there is a link to said rules at the top of every page

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edie19

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Alrighty then folks - staff has done a clean-up and we're reopening the thread.

Going forward please bear in mind that there is no debating in the main forum. Please respond to the OP when posting, be respectful of other viewpoints and as always
Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.
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SUNSTONE

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James Dobson has endorsed John Mclain (taheheh, I saw part of Die Hard last night)

He aired a clip where Obama said that determining when life begins is above his pay grade.
So Dobson said "If that question is above your pay grade, then so is the position you are running for."(something like that)
 
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JimR-OCDS

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First off, John McCain will not attempt to over turn Roe V Wade;

"I'd love to see a point where it is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary," McCain told the Chronicle in 1999. "But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations."

John McCain voted to publicly fund abortions, but pro-life websites will vote to funding amendments for public funding, that he voted against. Problem is, the bills were to increase funding on womens health issues overall. However, he voted in favor of the original bills.

John McCain went behind the backs of the GOP leadership in Congress, and made a pact with democrats, not to vote for pro-life judicial nominees, in exchange for not using the nuclear option, which would've removed the option of filibustering.

On the abortion issue, I truly believe, there is little difference between John McCain and Barrack Obama, except that McCain uses the issue for political purposes, where Obama, believes the government needs to stay out of the issue.

Both McCain and Obama, oppose gay marriage, but support civil rights of same sex partnerships, and these don't include just gay relationships, but couples who are friends who watch out for each other.

John McCain would use the US Military Power, as his foreign policy.

Obama is intellectually connected to the cultures of the world and would be a better diplomat.

John McCain is ill-tempered, and would create a division even among his own party members, which he titled himself as a maverick, but others call him a name I can't use.

As a leader an a person who has what it takes to unite the country, I think Obama beats McCain hands down.


Jim
 
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