If being homosexual is a sin, then why did God create homosexuals?

Beanieboy said:

I think you missed the point. He was asking if it is not a sin to offer a beer to an alcoholic. I don't think that it is everyone's responsibility to have ESP about another's drinking problem. Wear your medalian, tell people, or say "no, thanks," but i don't think one will have to answer to God, just because you unwittingly asked an alcoholic coworker if they want to grab a beer.

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I meant to maintain the context of being allowed to drink as a Christian. The example was to counter the idea that there wouldn't be a problem with drinking in moderation, but no one has esp, so no one could know for certain. The solution for the Christian is simple, ask God if it's ok to have a beer today. No? There must be a good reason not to. Yes? *bottle opener pop* Oh yeah, vanilla stout goodness.

Ignorance is no defense, and the particulars don't really matter, cuz we've all sinned plenty. Either Jesus has your back and you're cleared of all charges, or you rejected Jesus, and you've still got to atone for those sins, which is a payment no one can afford.

I chanced upon this and have to make a few corrections.

BigBadWlf said:

First – we live under a new covenant. Jesus did away with the law and put in place his commandment
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 13:34

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Only Christians are freed from the law through grace, the law still applies to those still living in sin.

A further problem is one of translation. Leviticus has many injunctions against engaging in sex – specifically carnal knowledge. However carnal knowledge is not used in either Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 the word that is used is shakab. It is popularly translated to mean to lay (lie) with but there is a problem with that translation. Shakab is used 52 times in the old testament and is always used to a sexual encounter typified by deceit or force, in other words, some type of rape.


Shakab Means "Rape" not copulation, not carnal relations…rape.

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The Hebrew shâkab
shaw-kab'
A primitive root; to lie down (for rest, sexual connection, decease or any other purpose): - X at all, cast down, ([over-]) lay (self) (down), (make to) lie (down, down to sleep, still, with), lodge, ravish, take rest, sleep, stay.

My search found Shakab used 210 times in 192 verses in the KJV, all of which vary in context. (I used e-sword.)

In Gen 19:4 & 28:11,13 it obviously means only to lay down to rest. Gen 30:15,16 is in reference to sexual relations, but doesn't hold the context of rape or deceitful sex - actually it's all around consensual. There are many verses where the word was used in the context of fornication, but not always of rape. If Shakab is used 52 times to mean rape (including deceitful circumstances) then that is only almost one quarter of the use of the word.

It's somewhat likely Shakab means rape in Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13, it's at least as likely to mean fornication, or simply to have any sexual relations.

It says "To lie with a man as with a woman," meaning that it is acceptable for a man to lie with a woman, but of course that's only acceptable in marriage. So, if a man can't lie with a man as with a woman, a man can't take a man as his spouse, and sex outside of marriage is wrong. So, no homosexual sex for people who want to live eternally with God.

God is starting to sound really anally retentive in this thread.

He seriously wants me to ask him every time I want to do anything at all?

cantata said:

God is starting to sound really anally retentive in this thread.

He seriously wants me to ask him every time I want to do anything at all?

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Do you seriously believe you can do anything without GOD to the perfection HE demands? If the answer to that question is well of course I can, then no, you don't. But if your answer is that you don't even know how GOD would want you to handle something, then the answer is yes, you need to pray to the LORD for everything and in everything.

LittleNipper said:

Do you seriously believe you can do anything without GOD to the perfection HE demands? If the answer to that question is well of course I can, then no, you don't. But if your answer is that you don't even know how GOD would want you to handle something, then the answer is yes, you need to pray to the LORD for everything and in everything.

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God demands perfection in how I make my coffee?

Is he going to have me making it for him in heaven or something?

cantata said:

God demands perfection in how I make my coffee?

Is he going to have me making it for him in heaven or something?

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IS coffee good for you?

LittleNipper said:

Do you seriously believe you can do anything without GOD to the perfection HE demands?

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God doesn't demand perfection.

The Christian faith is virtually based on that fact. Because we are sinful and imperfect beings, the one sinless being died for us. He knows we're not up to perfection.

He does call us to be holy. You might be confusing holiness with perfection - I know I used to - but they're not the same thing.

David.

Needless to say, GOD is against college beer bash parties. "I'm going to drink man until that ugly chick over there looks hot."

LittleNipper said:

IS coffee good for you?

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It helps me write my essays.

And it smells good.

Does God want me to ask him about these grapes I'm going to have for lunch as well? How about what colour underwear I should put on after my shower? How about whether or not I should have a glass of water?

David Brider said:

God doesn't demand perfection.

The Christian faith is virtually based on that fact. Because we are sinful and imperfect beings, the one sinless being died for us. He knows we're not up to perfection.

He does call us to be holy. You might be confusing holiness with perfection - I know I used to - but they're not the same thing.

David.

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You're mistaken. GOD provided HIS own perfection through the death, burial, and resurrection of HIS SON , the LORD JESUS CHRIST. However, GOD does demand that this perfection is not rejected. If if is, then GOD must judge that individual's IMPERFECTION and call it into account.

LittleNipper said:

Needless to say, GOD is against college beer bash parties. "I'm going to drink man until that ugly chick over there looks hot."

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According to you, GOD is against everything ENJOYABLE. Your GOD is the DESTROYER of HAPPINESS. HE probably wouldn't approve of my FORNICATING and SMOKING or DRINKING, but I speak of your GOD and not MINE.

cantata said:

God demands perfection in how I make my coffee?

Is he going to have me making it for him in heaven or something?

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God understands the butterfly effect of every little thing you could possible do, so it's best to consider God's will in every decision you make.

TheLowlyTortoise said:

God understands the butterfly effect of every little thing you could possible do, so it's best to consider God's will in every decision you make.

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So... do you seriously ask God which underwear to wear in the morning?

Sexuality is very fluid and is often influenced by environmental factors as well as physical or genetic ones. But regardless, a person still doesn't choose it. Just like a person doesn't choose that they like vanilla over chocolate icecream, they just do.

But being homosexual isn't the sin. It is acting on it that is the sinful part.

So God created these people, just like he created mentally handicapped people, physically handicapped people, blind, deaf, paralyzed, and dependent people... they must live out their lives regardless and do what they can with it.. and then be subject to all of the evils in our world and accept that their condition is a result of someone else's sin that they did not choose.

But don't worry. God is just and all will be justified in the end to glorify Him... right?

speaking of homosexuality being chosen...

there ARE homosexual animals. If animals do not have free will, how is this possible?

I cannot help but wonder why people choose to ignore: the way humans are created (the anatomical differences in design between male and female), the way nature (both plants and animals) are arranged in a male/female way and how the whole pattern of male/female is repeated throughout creation. It is quite obvious what God intended and how the whole male/female relationship is intended to work. There is absolutely no excuse to think that it is "normal" for any other arrangement.

Secondly, God did not create people homosexual. God does not make anyone or thing sin. Some individuals may have unusual attractions at a very young age, but that does not mean God did that. We're all born into sin, but that isn't because of God. That is because of man, i.e. Adam rebelling against God. That made sin enter into the world. God isn't the one throwing sin onto us and pushing us towards rebellion. If people are not happy about having freewill, then oh well. But do not go and get ticked off at God and blame Him for all the ills of the world because he gave us a choice and not only that, but told us what we should do and if we ask Him even helps us do it.

soul_on_fire said:

People can't choose their sexuality, it's just the way they are.
Why did God create people like that and then not allow them to express their feelings?
What's wrong with being homosexual anyway?
If two people find true love does it really matter that they're of the same gender?
Isn't discriminating homosexual couples like discrimination couples with a large age gap or of different nationalities?
Just like your sexuality, you can't decide when you were born or where you were born, yet different ages and nationalities are acceptable.
Myself, I am not homosexual, but I just don't understand why homosexuality is not acceptable.

Thanks for answers

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Having sex outside of traditional marriage or having purposely sterile sex within marriage is fornication. This would include people having sex with member of their own sex. Now contradiction is available, because of the rather logical view of marriage according to the Roman Catholic Church. Good luck showing everyone else how they must be wrong though!

I cannot help but wonder why people choose to ignore: the way humans are created (the anatomical differences in design between male and female), the way nature (both plants and animals) are arranged in a male/female way and how the whole pattern of male/female is repeated throughout creation. It is quite obvious what God intended and how the whole male/female relationship is intended to work. There is absolutely no excuse to think that it is "normal" for any other arrangement.

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I agree, I can't stand when human beings do unnatural things.

Like fly around in those silly jet contraptions. If man was meant to fly we'd be born with wings.

And driving around in those automobiles. If man was meant to zoom around on wheels we'd have been born with tires and internal combustion engines.

And don't get me started on clothes!

Now contradiction is available, because of the rather logical view of marriage according to the Roman Catholic Church. Good luck showing everyone else how they must be wrong though!

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Were you trying to say now contraception is avaliable?

soul_on_fire said:

People can't choose their sexuality, it's just the way they are.
Why did God create people like that and then not allow them to express their feelings?
What's wrong with being homosexual anyway?
If two people find true love does it really matter that they're of the same gender?
Isn't discriminating homosexual couples like discrimination couples with a large age gap or of different nationalities?
Just like your sexuality, you can't decide when you were born or where you were born, yet different ages and nationalities are acceptable.
Myself, I am not homosexual, but I just don't understand why homosexuality is not acceptable.

Thanks for answers

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Because God said, "Don't do it," and he didn't change his mind just because the popular vote changed its mind.

God did not make people homosexual. They chose to be that way.

My own cousin is living proof of it. Dated every guy in the world, and then married for about 10 years and had two kids.

Then she decided to become a lesbian.


The fact that anyone exists proves they do not have a gay gene. If their parents had a gay gene, well, they wouldn't be here.

1 Cor. 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Because God said, "Don't do it," and he didn't change his mind just because the popular vote changed its mind.

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The Christian God also said funny things like don't wear clothing of two different materials, don't each shellfish, don't cut your beards. I don't trust ancient hebrew tribal myth figures for my morality.

God did not make people homosexual. They chose to be that way.

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I seriously doubt that. I certainly know as a child I woke up one day and said to myself, man...you're going to like girls now./sarcasm.

My own cousin is living proof of it. Dated every guy in the world, and then married for about 10 years and had two kids.

Then she decided to become a lesbian.

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OR in actuality she finally stopped living a lie. Happens all the time. Strawmen don't impress me.

The fact that anyone exists proves they do not have a gay gene. If their parents had a gay gene, well, they wouldn't be here.

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Nonsensical comment.