Pope reaffirms Church opposition to contraception

It should be noted that most AIDs is spread from man-to-man. Men who are having sex with eachother are not comitting any additional sin by using a condom.

Pope Benedict XVI on Friday reaffirmed the Catholic Church's condemnation of artificial birth control, a position that has driven millions of people away from the faith.

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I find that statement erroneous, if only for the fact that most Catholics have no problem staying in the Church and using artificial birth control, at least in America.

It is darkly amusing to hear a gay rights group speak of the Church as encouraging ignorant and irresponsible sexuality.

If gay-oriented individuals actually followed what the Church promoted in terms of sexuality, and prpmoted the Church teaching in their lives and the lives of like-minded individuals, AIDS wouldn't be the gay disease that is is today in NA.

It is the wisdom of the ages that the kind of sexuality that the Church promotes leads to life in abundance. Rejecting that teaching leads to death and disease and pestilence.

The Catholic teaching on contraception is a hard message. Harder still is the consequences of not keeping one's sexuality open to life, and of having the sexual act so completely removed from the idea of conception as it is now in modern society.

The birth rate among people who have not listened to the Catholic teaching is entering into a death spiral. Whatever one might think of what the Church actually teaches on contraception, that is a rather harsh consequence of our so totally rejecting what the Church has been trying to tell us all these years.

As individuals we may in fact no longer need children to care for us in our twilight years now that the state is there to do that for us. Financially children are a burden in modern urban society.

As a society though, how are we going to maintain the system, if not for the next generation of children who are just not going to be there-because of contraception?

It is one of those 'woe Babylon the great has fallen' moments. When sensuality becomes separated from our sexual nature, founded as it is in the unity of the procreative and unitive act of one-flesh union, life in its abundance becomes unsustainable.

It is a hard message for sure, what the Church teaches on contraception. It is not as though more than a few of us Catholics are included in the number of those who missed the great feast that Peter had laid out before us. We too are statistics in the society which has seen contraception as an easy street more in tune with the times that what an 'archaic] Chruch has to tell us.

But even if the feast is being cleared away, might not the crumbs left under the table for the dogs be enough to sustain us?

It is true that all salvation comes through the Church, maybe even in the crumbs of faith that are left behind by a Church that has been ejected from our world will be of some value.
When life in abundance in the Church is rejected, a few crumbs of a partial teaching is all that is left now.

Michie said:

VATICAN CITY (AFP) —

Continued- [URL]http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i7iy5b3DJryFJxuwzhzb224A4tRQ[/URL]

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Planned Parenthood, who collects millions of dollars a year of American tax payer's money and who is closely associated with a newly popular politician, sues any business that, for reasons of good conscience, won't sell contraception. This makes it very hard for a business owner to be free to practice their freedom of religion.
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The open letter in July by dissident Catholic bodies from countries including Britain, Brazil, Canada, France and the United States said the Church's opposition to birth control endangered women's lives and exposed millions of people to the risk of contracting AIDS.

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"Let them eat cake."

Here are the facts directly from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Centers for Disease Control and Prevention about what kind of activity puts someone at highest risk of getting AIDS:

HIV/AIDS and Men Who Have Sex with Men (MSM)

The term men who have sex with men (MSM) refers to all men who have sex with other men, regardless of how they identify themselves (gay, bisexual, or heterosexual). In the United States, HIV and AIDS have had a tremendous impact on MSM.


Consider these facts:

• AIDS has been diagnosed for more than half a million MSM. Over 300,000 MSM with AIDS have died since the beginning of the epidemic.
• MSM made up more than two thirds (68%) of all men living with HIV in 2005, even though only about 5% to 7% of men in the United States reported having sex with other men.
• In a 2005 study of 5 large US cities, 46% of African American MSM were HIV-positive.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm

Wow.. praying. Thanks all for posting these informative posts.

God bless

MikeK said:

It should be noted that most AIDs is spread from man-to-man. Men who are having sex with eachother are not comitting any additional sin by using a condom.

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Is it just a matter of counting sins?

An Italian gay rights advocacy group, Arcigay, reacted angrily to the pope's message, saying in a statement: "The Church (has) the greatest moral responsibility for the spread of AIDS because, with its obstinate opposition to the use of condoms, it encourages an ignorant and irresponsible sexuality."

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Whatever one thinks of the Church's teaching on contraception, whatever one's struggles with it, it is nearly impossible to miss the hilarity in this position. Hello- if the Church's teaching on sexuality were abided by, AIDS wouldn't be an issue in our society. Someone who is actively living a homosexual lifestyle is likely not really that concerned with the thoughts of the Church on condoms. I mean, pretend you're a gay Catholic man who is actively engaging in gay sex. How likely is it that you say to yourself, "I will not use a condom because the Church teaches that it is wrong"?

Weird said:

Is it just a matter of counting sins?

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Welcom to Catholocism. Ever been to Confession? Recall that we are to state how long it's been since our last Confession, what are sins are, and how many times we comitted them.

Man-on-man fornication with a condom is one act of grave matter.

Man-on-woman fornication with a condom is two.

I mean, pretend you're a gay Catholic man who is actively engaging in gay sex. How likely is it that you say to yourself, "I will not use a condom because the Church teaches that it is wrong"?

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The funniest part is, that the Church doesn't even say it's wrong - they say teh gay sex is wrong. Church teaching on contraception is irrelevant to strictly gay, non-bisexual people - whether they are sexually active or not.

MikeK said:

Welcom to Catholocism. Ever been to Confession? Recall that we are to state how long it's been since our last Confession, what are sins are, and how many times we comitted them.

Man-on-man fornication with a condom is one act of grave matter.

Man-on-woman fornication with a condom is two.

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Sorry you are wrong. I was told - in the confessional - by a priest (so I take it that he was speaking on behalf of Jesus) that using a condom whilst committing fornication was NOT an additional sin. According to him, bringing a child into the world when the parents were not married would have been a big mistake. He therefore told me that condom use would not add to the sin which (he thought that) I was already committing.

HyacinthBouquet said:

Sorry you are wrong. I was told - in the confessional - by a priest (so I take it that he was speaking on behalf of Jesus) that using a condom whilst committing fornication was NOT an additional sin. According to him, bringing a child into the world when the parents were not married would have been a big mistake. He therefore told me that condom use would not add to the sin which (he thought that) I was already committing.

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Well

that settles that, huh?

I once corrected a priest who argued with me that abortion was okay in some circumstances.

Guess that's true too. Shucks.

Are you sure the defense you want to hang your hat on is "a priest said such and such to me once"?

btw, in response to the OP - couldn't the pope have just written a letter back explaining his rationale to the groups who wrote him?

geocajun said:

Well

that settles that, huh?

I once corrected a priest who argued with me that abortion was okay in some circumstances.

Guess that's true too. Shucks.

Are you sure the defense you want to hang your hat on is "a priest said such and such to me once"?

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Umm..... yes, because he said it in the *confessional* so that means that he was speaking on behalf of the Holy Spirit. This is one of the doctrinal beliefs in the Catholic Church.

Obviously, if a priest is saying something in the confessional about abortion being OK, then there is something seriously wrong with that priest.

However, where condoms and fornication are concerned, the priest was not stating something that a Bishop of the Church had not told me also.

When I was young, we used to belong to a Youth Group which had meetings - "Open House" - at Cardinal Basil Hume's house. He spoke to us about such matters. I remember his opinions in regard to this topic and, sorry to say it, but he agreed with that priest too.

How is that for my defence?

Besides, it is easy enough to figure it out for yourself. If you look at all the reasons given for the Church's teachings against artificial contraception, they are all aimed at married people. "The beauty of conjugal love", "the unitive aspect of intercourse", "the procreative aspect of intercourse". These phrases are used by the Popes when they are speaking about married couples. They do not use these phrases to speak about unmarried couples. The duty to procreate is a duty of marriage. If a couple are not married, there is no duty to procreate in the eyes of the Church.

geocajun said:

btw, in response to the OP - couldn't the pope have just written a letter back explaining his rationale to the groups who wrote him?

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Certainly not! The Pope does not have time to write letters to people! "Explaining his rationale!"

HyacinthBouquet said:

Umm..... yes, because he said it in the *confessional* so that means that he was speaking on behalf of the Holy Spirit. This is one of the doctrinal beliefs in the Catholic Church.

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That is *not* doctrine. You may personally believe that, but it isn't true. My wife was told in confession that she could use contraceptives.
You are making a serious mistake if you think priests stop being men in the confessional.

Besides, it is easy enough to figure it out for yourself. If you look at all the reasons given for the Church's teachings against artificial contraception, they are all aimed at married people. "The beauty of conjugal love", "the unitive aspect of intercourse", "the procreative aspect of intercourse". These phrases are used by the Popes when they are speaking about married couples. They do not use these phrases to speak about unmarried couples. The duty to procreate is a duty of marriage. If a couple are not married, there is no duty to procreate in the eyes of the Church.

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The catholic church does not speak of congugal love for non-married people because any sex outside of the context of marriage is considered sinful.

Certainly not! The Pope does not have time to write letters to people! "Explaining his rationale!"

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you know this because....?

geocajun said:

you know this because....?

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You told me.

(About a year ago in a thread about contraception.)

In response to the OP..the Church has stood against pride from the get go--but that doesn't mean that it isn't an area where living out the teaching is easy, nor that the sin is not one against which people wrestle and struggle everyday- their fight sometimes doing what it is they are called to do, and sometimes failing miserably.

I think it is a shame that in discussions about contraception, that we often speak of it as though there is no room for faltering. Yes, we are called to live out the Church's teachings in every area--but I don't think one amongst us has done that consistently each and every day of our lives. (Note this isn't to say that theChurch is wrong in what She teaches, or wrong to call us to what is seen as the best--merely to point out that it is so very often a lifetime struggle to do so.)

HyacinthBouquet said:

You told me.

(About a year ago in a thread about contraception.)

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I told you the pope doesn't have time to write letters?