Homosexuality

SoundCard said:

I'll let this verse from Acts answer that. Zerosaiyaman has allowed for me to answer for him in this manner as well.

Acts 15:28-30 NIV

28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

It says we would do well to avoid these things, homosexuality would fall under the catagory of sexual immorality, and because what is to do well by the Spirit is to avoid sin, therefore, homosexuality is a sin. Sin itself is an abomination in the eyes of God. So you have your answer.

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SoundCard said:

Rather than play these games, let me ask you this.

Genesis 4:8-12 NIV

8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." [d] And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. 9 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"
"I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"
10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."


What did Cain do here? He sinned, did he not? Yes, it is obvious so, we know he did when he killed Abel. Yet, how did he know it was wrong? Did Cain have the law? By what was he found guilty by then if the law was not around? God spoke to him directly, and told him it was wrong. Now then, what do we find similar with then, that we see now?...

The fact that God directs us with what is right and wrong again, by power of the Spirit.


Romans 1:9 NIV

"1I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit—"


A single line tells us so much. Paul is affirming something, the truth, with his conscience, by power of the Spirit. The law of the Spirit at work. His conscience is not confirmed by the law, but by Holy Spirit of God Himself. Therein lies the issue. The law was never a means to eradicate sin. So why then was it revealed?


Galatians 3:19 NIV

19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.



It was to make sin evident. It was not revealed to save us. It was pointing towards something much much more.
It was referring to the coming of our Holy Lord, Jesus Christ! Son of God!


Matthew 5:17-20 NIV

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.


So what does this mean? Christ came to fulfill the law, to take the burden off those who could not do it themselves. We have not the power to save ourselves tanzel, we never did. You must realize this. What you must realize is, if you want to be saved by the law, you would have to be like Christ Himself. Be capable of what He was. Yet, are you somehow as righteous as our saviour? Did you die for the sins of mankind? Did you take away sin for all? You certainly seem to suggest it when you claimed I was trying to kill you like Jesus. But I assure you good sir, you are no Christ.


Which is exactly why we NEED Jesus Christ. He did not come to take away only the sacrificial law, no, He Himself said


Matthew 5:18 NIV

18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

What was accomplished? His death upon the cross and His resurrection from the dead. His death and resurrection. He lived according to the law, a fact you point out so often, so that He could fulfill it, so that we, who had not the power to do so, could do so by putting faith in His death and resurrection! So when the written letter was "nailed to the cross" , it literally was nailed to the cross, in Jesus Christ, who had fulfilled it. It was cancelled because He took it to the grave with Him. Because He was the only one to be righteous by it, He alone had the right to enter into Heaven. Because only He was great enough to do so. So God gave us this grace, by accepting Jesus in our place, to save us all from satan's power, to deliver us to a holier way of life. To save us from our condemnation, because none was found in Jesus, that is why it says "there is no Condemnation for those in Jesus Christ" because Jesus Himself was not condemned.

THAT is the glory of God, THAT is why I will not see the lake of fire, and THAT is why I love the Lord Almighty, and will ONLY ever bow to the Lord of Heaven! By HIS holy blood, and by HIS holy blood alone will my sins be atoned for, because the law was never MEANT to take it away, only EVER to increase it!

THIS IS THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL! Repent and believe in Christ, for He alone could take away what the law could not. The blood of bulls and lambs He did not want, but a perfect body without blemish or defect He found in our saviour, Jesus Christ. AMEN!

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zerosaiyaman said:

Tanzel, how many times do we have to show you that salvation is not a matter of following the law? You transgress against God by denying the power of Christ, wronging him by not putting your faith in him.

Galatians 2:14-16 14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
15"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 5:4 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

The only way you go to hell is by not accepting Christ. That can be by outright denying him /or by trying to follow the law instead of trusting in Christ/. That is, if you try to follow the law, you are living by pride, as you can NEVER fulfill the law, so you are condemned no matter what. Salvation is only through Christ, never by what you do. Sure, you can take the Lord's name in vain, even fall into idolatry, if you are saved and Christ's, he won't let you go no matter what. I don't think you actually can fall that far away for too long before God disciplines you back to Himself.

But if you do not seek what is right, even if you are saved, your greater reward is lost, that is made abundantly clear. Come on dude, how can you ignore what scripture plainly states?

1st Corinthians 15:54-56 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[g]
55"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"[h] 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1st Corinthians 10:23 23"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive

There is a difference between "must do" and "should do". A world of difference. You /should/ ride your bike with a helmet, and if you don't, you alone are responsible for the damage you suffer if you fall. However, you don't have to have a helmet to ride a bike.
You /should/ seek what is righteous, or you are alone to blame for the consequences of your actions. But you cannot seek to try to keep the law to be saved, only trust in Christ. Christ himself says so:

John 11:25-26 (NIV) 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

and

John 6:32-40 (NIV) 32Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
34"Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread."
35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

How can you speak so against Christ himself? You are confusing two completely different subjects, Tanzel, that's the problem. If you don't accept Christ, then you are under the law, and you will be found guilty of breaking it, and you /will be condemned/. But there is no condemnation for those in Christ, no matter what they do. Though at the same time, to have faith in Christ means the Spirit dwells in you and will help lead you to what is right.
But we will fall and stumble and fail, and those who do so in Christ suffer no loss, just discipline, but those who do so in the law suffer eternal damnation. You cannot escape it but through Christ, and thus not keeping the law cannot take your salvation away - nothing can, as it would be against the will of God himself, and no one is greater than Him.

That's why we come to the final, ultimate conclusion: there is a different type of judgement for the believer as detailed here. That is, the judgement of your works for your greater reward. But you are saved no matter what you do if you trust in God! /NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO/, as you are not greater than God. So says Christ himself, tanzel!

So here's the conclusion.

1st Corinthians 3:10-14, 21-23 10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[c] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

And

Romans 14:1-8 (NIV)
1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

If we had to keep our salvation or be saved by following the law, than the above verses would be impossible! And Christ would be a liar. And all you believe would be for naught. So either it's all a sham, or you're wrong, Tanzel. For you confuse the old with the new, you confuse what is past with what currently is, you confuse "should" with "must". You must have faith in Christ to have salvation, nothing else can save you, not following the law, thus nothing can take it from you, not even breaking the law (which you, and everyone, will do till your dying day, if you know it or not. For only Christ was perfect). But you should love God first and everyone else as yourself, and seek what is right, so your reward can be even greater, and the gospel furthered, and so that more may come to know the exceeding riches that are in Christ Jesus.

There are no riches in the law, only death, but in Christ all things are possible.

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