What or Who Is Satan?

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Bro.T

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You were the first one to insult, and your so called scripture never proved that Satan was a angel in his beginning. You twist scripture to prove your bias; you are the one who has choked on the spiritual steak (meat), because all you can hangle is you false creed from Rome. You are the one who said "I was not Biblically based and us guys use other books" is where the personal attacks started; which is a false claim. Show me where I used other books?

Back up with your insults with scripture something you have failed to do, you say I am wrong then prove it with something other then your opinion. I used PC Bible and Strong’s and you and no other reference. You are the one who is twisting scripture to back you false claim that Satan is an angel when the Bible clearly declares Satan beginning was a liar and murderer; but no your dogma are more important to you then what the Bible declares; clearly.
This is what you said, "This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men." See you lied again, you were
the first.

You come on this thread, looking for attention, like I said, "if you think you
have some knowledge start your own thread."

Take some time and study the lesson, it speaks for it self, stop looking for attention, its not cool at all. Learn some fruit of the spirit, when you
dealing with the word of God. If you were smooth with what you understood, we would of had a different conversation, but you
you put your doctrine down, then try to knock my out, and I read that
post, I knew right off the top that doctrine, and I don't want no part of it.
I don't have to tell people that they have a false doctrine, even though they do, because, what I do is on a whole another level, I teach the uncut
word of God, exactly like the scripture explain the word suppose to be
taught.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8:20)

I gave you the scriptures, plus, you can always go back in the thread
and read, someone else, told you the same thing, you disagree, than
thats the end of it, nothing more to be said. I didn't insult you, cause
I said, I know that doctrine, that not an insult.

peace in jesus name
 
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DarkCoffeeJazz

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I pointed my finger at someone only after they pointed their finger at me; I guess that part you choose to ignore. I already showed all of you that Lucifer is not Satan; unless of course you can show me Satan has two beginnings?
You can argue without being rude or condemning the person. I'm polite, usually. USUALLY. :D
Lucifer is not Christ,

Of course.
he may be Adam;
I don't see how.
but he sure is not Satan. Unless you can prove Satan had two beginnings
I think you need to state where you think Satan originated and how then. I see only one creation, IMO.
your false creed does not stand up to God’s Word.
Who says it's false? what would you say Lucifer is? Not "who" but "what" is he?

There is nothing in the Bible that says Lucifer is the Devil; that false doctrine comes from

I've heard this tired excuse a million times.
Answer my above question then.
 
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Benoni

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And make sure you aren't practicing what you're preaching against, btw. All I get from this conversation is...
"I'm holier than thou!"
"NO, I'M holier than thou for this reason, because I use such and such a bible!"

Sorry. But when can you guys be civil to each other again?

I am not a tradition orthodox Christian; orthodoxy to me is like being a Jew in Jesus day who knew God’s Word inside out but missed the Christ right in front of there nose. Traditional Christianity is not my god. This is a debate, and one someone debates usually looses. It is not a matter of being holier then thou it is a matter of presenting God’s Word on how I see it is revealed to me. You guys are the one acting holier then thou because you falsely accuse me of not using the Bible, or your Bible or what ever your hang-up is. Well if Satan is Lucifer show me…

My point has always been that God’s Word declares in multiple verse that Satan has always been a liar, a murderer and that means it is impossible for him to be an the archangel Lucifer. All you need to show me where it is written that Satan was a angel, or Lucifer by using the Bible you all claim to know so well; instead of assuming you are right because that is what your religion believes.



 
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Benoni

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This is what you said, "This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men." See you lied again, you were
the first.

You come on this thread, looking for attention, like I said, "if you think you
have some knowledge start your own thread."

Take some time and study the lesson, it speaks for it self, stop looking for attention, its not cool at all. Learn some fruit of the spirit, when you
dealing with the word of God. If you were smooth with what you understood, we would of had a different conversation, but you
you put your doctrine down, then try to knock my out, and I read that
post, I knew right off the top that doctrine, and I don't want no part of it.
I don't have to tell people that they have a false doctrine, even though they do, because, what I do is on a whole another level, I teach the uncut
word of God, exactly like the scripture explain the word suppose to be
taught.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8:20)

I gave you the scriptures, plus, you can always go back in the thread
and read, someone else, told you the same thing, you disagree, than
thats the end of it, nothing more to be said. I didn't insult you, cause
I said, I know that doctrine, that not an insult.

peace in jesus name

Your scriptures did not hold up to the truth, answer one simple question. Your doctrine is your god and you are the one holding on to some dead doctrine from Rome. How can Satan be a liar a murder in a beginning as well as an arch-angel? If you cannot show me this then you sir are the one with the false doctine.
 
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Bro.T

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I am not a tradition orthodox Christian; orthodoxy to me is like being a Jew in Jesus day who knew God’s Word inside out but missed the Christ right in front of there nose. Traditional Christianity is not my god. This is a debate, and one someone debates usually looses. It is not a matter of being holier then thou it is a matter of presenting God’s Word on how I see it is revealed to me. You guys are the one acting holier then thou because you falsely accuse me of not using the Bible, or your Bible or what ever your hang-up is. Well if Satan is Lucifer show me…

My point has always been that God’s Word declares in multiple verse that Satan has always been a liar, a murderer and that means it is impossible for him to be an the archangel Lucifer. All you need to show me where it is written that Satan was a angel, or Lucifer by using the Bible you all claim to know so well; instead of assuming you are right because that is what your religion believes.
Since you humble yourself a little, I will show you that...Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. These are just titles names.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Revelation 12:12)

Peace in Jesus name
 
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Benoni

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You can argue without being rude or condemning the person. I'm polite, usually. USUALLY. :D

Of course.

I don't see how.

I think you need to state where you think Satan originated and how then. I see only one creation, IMO.

Who says it's false? what would you say Lucifer is? Not "who" but "what" is he?


I've heard this tired excuse a million times.
[/font] Answer my above question then.

I really do not care who Lucifer is, I do care that he surely is not Satan.

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

(See God created Satan)


Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..


I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?
 
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Bro.T

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Remember what James said, "when sin is finished it brings forth death, even the second death."

Take a look at this verse in John, and see whom this spirit is that did all this lying.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44)
At the beginning of this study I asked the question, "Does Satan have allies?" We see he does not ally himself with an evil person. He goes about to destroy the evil along with the good. Let’s pursue this for a moment, take a look at what Paul has to say about false prophets.

Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (II Corinthians 11:1-4)

What does Paul mean preaching another Jesus? He is giving us warning. The warning is if your preacher or pastor does not teach according to what's written in the Bible he is simply preaching another Jesus, in other words a false Jesus. For example; if a minister says the commandments are nailed to the cross, he is preaching another Jesus. Note what Paul says in the next set of verses.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (II Corinthians 11:13-15)


 
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DarkCoffeeJazz

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I am not a tradition orthodox Christian; orthodoxy to me is like being a Jew in Jesus day who knew God’s Word inside out but missed the Christ right in front of there nose. Traditional Christianity is not my god. This is a debate, and one someone debates usually looses. It is not a matter of being holier then thou it is a matter of presenting God’s Word on how I see it is revealed to me. You guys are the one acting holier then thou because you falsely accuse me of not using the Bible, or your Bible or what ever your hang-up is. Well if Satan is Lucifer show me…
And the blame is shifted!
*crowd goes wild*
what I mean to say, you are just as expected to be accountable for your words as we are. I'm saying you're both doing it, or that is the impression I get. You're last few sentences in this quote tend to give me the impression even more.

My point has always been that God’s Word declares in multiple verse that Satan has always been a liar, a murderer and that means it is impossible for him to be an the archangel Lucifer.

Well, let's see some evidence then!
*plays air guitar solo to recorded music, life bar appears, half of it starts flashing dangerously, as if in warning*
All you need is a big piece of evidence for such a big claim!

All you need to show me where it is written that Satan was a angel, or Lucifer by using the Bible you all claim to know so well; instead of assuming you are right because that is what your religion believes.
I use logic and reason. I believe what I believe, because it is what I believe, not because someone told me to.
What was that verse about an "angel of light" again? Can't remember what it was....
AH! I know. Internet will help me!
*EPIC WIN*
Here is something you need to "try and explain away".

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (New International Version)

13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
 
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Bro.T

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Remember the so-called prophets in the book of I Kings how they prophesied in the Lord's name. Don't allow today’s false apostles and deceitful workers get you cut off.

How will you know them by their works? If it is not according to the scripture they are not of God. Let's go to II Corinthians chapter 10 and close out.

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (II Corinthians 10:3-5)

Note what Paul says, "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God." Imaginations, that's correct! The status quo has people believing the word of God is a joke. They have no true knowledge of God. If most of us did our actions would be different. People have put in their minds that they do not have to be obedient to the word of God.

They fantasize that no work must be done. They have imagined vain thoughts that all we have to do is believe on Jesus and we will make it into the Kingdom of God. They speak lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

By not knowing the truth the evil spirits take advantage of them. Why does the Lord allow this? They received not the love of the truth that they might be saved.

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Instead of giving attendance to reading, exhortation and to doctrine from the Bible, they believe in everything but the truth.

Remember that if you LOVE the Lord you keep His commandments. So, remember sisters and brothers put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Peace unto all that fear God and keep His commandments, in Jesus’ name.
 
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Benoni

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Remember what James said, "when sin is finished it brings forth death, even the second death."

Take a look at this verse in John, and see whom this spirit is that did all this lying.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44)
At the beginning of this study I asked the question, "Does Satan have allies?" We see he does not ally himself with an evil person. He goes about to destroy the evil along with the good. Let’s pursue this for a moment, take a look at what Paul has to say about false prophets.

Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (II Corinthians 11:1-4)

What does Paul mean preaching another Jesus? He is giving us warning. The warning is if your preacher or pastor does not teach according to what's written in the Bible he is simply preaching another Jesus, in other words a false Jesus. For example; if a minister says the commandments are nailed to the cross, he is preaching another Jesus. Note what Paul says in the next set of verses.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (II Corinthians 11:13-15)


You quoted it yourself, he was a murderer from his beginning (not an archangel) So Satan is a messenger of light; does not make him lucifer; show me where he is Lucifer?

How can Satan be a liar a murder in a beginning as well as an arch-angel?
 
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Floatingaxe

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Your scriptures did not hold up to the truth, answer one simple question. Your doctrine is your god and you are the one holding on to some dead doctrine from Rome. How can Satan be a liar a murder in a beginning as well as an arch-angel? If you cannot show me this then you sir are the one with the false doctine.


Scriptures refer to the "beginning" as OUR beginning. Satan was cast down long before God created mankind.

Why can't Lucifer, the archangel of worship, fall away in pride as Scriptures tell us? Why do you incite strife in those who believe simply what the Word tells us?

Who do you think Lucifer is? Who do you think Satan is?


Isaiah 14:12-13
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


Luke 10:18
“Yes,” he told them, “I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning!

Revelation 12:8-9
And the dragon lost the battle, and he and his angels were forced out of heaven. This great dragon—the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world—was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.



Lucifer means, 'light bearer"

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 
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DarkCoffeeJazz

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You quoted it yourself, he was a murderer from his beginning (not an archangel) So Satan is a messenger of light; does not make him lucifer; show me where he is Lucifer?

How can Satan be a liar a murder in a beginning as well as an arch-angel?

*two choices present itself on his Nintendo DS screen*
"It's impossible"
"It is possible"
*picks second option*
DCJ: It is entirely possible for him to be both, actually. *chuckle*
*adopts a smug smile*
 
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DarkCoffeeJazz

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Scriptures refer to the "beginning" as OUR beginning. Satan was cast down long before God created mankind.

Why can't Lucifer, the archangel of worship, fall away in pride as Scriptures tell us? Why do you incite strife in those who believe simply what the Word tells us?

Who do you think Lucifer is? Who do you think Satan is?


Isaiah 14:12-13
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


Luke 10:18
“Yes,” he told them, “I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning!

Revelation 12:8-9
And the dragon lost the battle, and he and his angels were forced out of heaven. This great dragon—the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world—was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.



Lucifer means, 'light bearer"

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Welcome to teh front lines. He asked a question about 2 Corinth, which I posted earlier.
And now I'm waiting for his response so i can explain why... But now i have you to back me up. YAY!
 
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Benoni

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Scriptures refer to the "beginning" as OUR beginning. Satan was cast down long before God created mankind.

Why can't Lucifer, the archangel of worship, fall away in pride as Scriptures tell us? Why do you incite strife in those who believe simply what the Word tells us?

Who do you think Lucifer is? Who do you think Satan is?


Isaiah 14:12-13
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


Luke 10:18
“Yes,” he told them, “I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning!

Revelation 12:8-9
And the dragon lost the battle, and he and his angels were forced out of heaven. This great dragon—the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world—was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.



Lucifer means, 'light bearer"

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I keep getting repeating scriptures over and over again even though they have been totally debated.

I think Lucifer is Adam; I cannot prove it but they have both one thing in common they both fell from grace.

Isaiah 14:12-13 (so what is your point)? This is Satan, nothing to do with Lucifer.

Luke 10:18 So Satan fell from heaven, there is no connection with Lucifer here; just assumption; especially seeing the Bible declares Satan was a liar and a murder from the beginning.

2 Corinthians 11:14 I already covered this the word angel means nothing more then messenger, another assumption. So is Jesus referred to as the bright and morning star; are you comparing Jesus with Satan?

Beginning:

The book of Genesis is probably the most important book ever written. The word "genesis" of course means "origin" or "beginning," and the book of Genesis gives the only true and reliable account of the basic entities and conditions of the universe and of life. Genesis yields vital information concerning the origin of ALL THINGS - and therefore the meaning of ALL THINGS!
When God speaks of "the beginning" He is speaking of the originating point of the subject in question. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Gen.1:1). Away back yonder, before the dim and distant ages that are gone, our heavenly Father purposed and planned and commanded; and lo, the worlds came into being! Out of invisibility came forth the visible; where previously there had been but empty space, now matter appeared and took form: a kingdom was in the making. It all began in "the beginning." All these things had their origin in Him, and they were His workmanship from the beginning of their creation. It is interesting to note that in the Hebrew text this word "beginning" is in the plural number - "beginnings." There were many things begun all at the same time, as the manifold wisdom of God found expression in innumerable ways to bring forth into the realm of visibility the majestic purposes of God. There is neither time nor space to enumerate all that is included in just two words: ALL THINGS. "For by Him were ALL THINGS created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS were created by Him and for Him: and He is before all things" (Col. 1:16-17).
When God speaks of "the beginning" He is speaking of the ORIGINATING POINT of the subject in question. It is written of Jesus when He had turned water into wine, "THIS BEGINNING of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth His glory; and His disciples believed on Him" (Jn. 2:11). This means, simply, that the miraculous aspect of the ministry of Jesus Christ had as its originating point this miracle of the water turned into wine. He had performed no miracles before this time, but from this day forth many more were to follow. This, so far as His miracles were concerned, was "the beginning." Thus we may clearly see that if something is manifested in a certain form "from the beginning" that means that from the time it was first formed, established, and came into being it has been in that condition.
Webster defines "beginning" as (1) a start (2) the time or place of starting or coming into being; origin; source. It should not be difficult for anyone who has working knowledge of the English language to understand the meaning of "in the beginning" or "from the beginning." The beginning of anything is simply THE TIME OR PLACE OF ITS STARTING OR COMING INTO BEING.
 
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Benoni

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I posted this earlier in this thread.

Orthodoxy had long taught that Satan was, in the beginning, a high and beautiful archangel in heaven. The theologians and preachers recite over and over how Satan was originally "the anointed cherub that covers ... the most beautiful and wise of all God's creation!" I have never seen where some one has declared as they did in this FORUM that Satan sinned from the beginning when he was a so called angel. This being was, so they say, the ruler and leader of the angelic beings and apparently led them in their praise of God and shouts of joy ...the greatest being God ever created, one who had unequaled strength, wisdom, beauty, privilege, and authority, and was next to God Himself. This blameless, perfect one, named Lucifer, was created without any form of evil and with the greatest intelligence of any created being. Then, we are told, this Lucifer, suddenly realizing how beautiful and intelligent he was, became inflated with power and pride and his heart was lifted up in rebellion against God. According to the story, Lucifer gathered one-third of the heavenly angels to his cause, mustering an army with which he planned to knock God off His throne and supplant himself as king and god of the universe and there was war in heaven! Luckily, God won, cast Lucifer out of heaven and he became, instead of an holy angel, the Devil that he is today.

Man says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was holy, but later fell from that estate. JESUS said of Satan, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER (not an angel) from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he, speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (Jn. 8:44). In these studies on the Garden of Eden we are searching out the BEGINNING, probing into the very midsts of the past, the times before this age and past ages, that we might understand the grand and glorious purposes of our omnipotent and omniscient heavenly Father which He has purposed from the beginning of the world. How authoritatively the Lord Jesus reveals that way back there, in THE BEGINNING, in even HIS beginning, Satan WAS A MURDERER!

The verse we have just quoted states that Satan "Adobe not" in the truth. In the Greek text this verb is the imperfect tense of (ed: Greek form of steko(?)), I keep my standing, or simply, I stand, and the form is (esteken(?)) meaning that even before the fall or as far back as this person existed HE WAS NOT TRUE. Dr. Robert Young, in his Literal translation of the Bible, renders this verse: "He was a manslayer from the beginning, and in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD, because there is no truth in him. The Rotherham version reads: "He was a murderer from the beginning, and IN THE TRUTH HE STOOD NOT; because the truth was not in him." J. B. Phillips gives the plainest and most accurate translation: "He ALWAYS WAS a MURDERER, and has NEVER DEALT WITH THE TRUTH, since the truth will have nothing to do with him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

MAN says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was perfect and sinless. But the apostle John, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, penned these words in regard to Satan's origin: "He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING" (I Jn. 3:8). This could not be rightly said of Adam. According to Genesis 2 and 3, it was not until after Adam was created in spirit essence, after he was lowered into the realm of flesh, after he was placed in the Garden, after he named all the animals, after the woman was taken from his side, after she listened to the serpent and ate the forbidden fruit - it was AFTER ALL THESE THINGS that Adam sinned. Adam was not a sinner from the beginning. But the Devil, according to I Jn. 3:8 W-A-S A SINNER F-R-O-M T-H-E B-E-G-I-N-N-I-N-G! Now, if we are to believe the Bible means what it says - and I believe it does - we must believe that from his very beginning SATAN WAS EVIL.


God is not so shallow and naïve as to have such a creature pull the wool over His eyes. Adam and Eves fall was as much a part of His plan as the death of Jesus on the cross; Satan is but a tool in God’s hands.
 
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Floatingaxe

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Beginning is referring to the beginning of Creation. Satan had already been declared evil and had long before Creation been kicked out of heaven. Beginning is OUR beginning. Satan's beginning was Lucifer's end.

There is no beginning in the realm of the heavenly, to speak of.

As "Satan" means, "adversary", do you really think, knowing God, that He would allow Lucifer to keep His majestic name, "Lightbearer"?


Come on.
It is man's penchant to complicate very simple truths...
 
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DarkCoffeeJazz

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There is absolutely no reason to believe that Lucifer is Adam, apart from a desire for fiction, and being antipathetic.

I agree. There is no reason whatsoever. He just wants to find someone to pin the title on, so he can't even consider the high possibility (like, say 99.9%?) that Satan and Lucifer are the same.
 
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Beginning is referring to the beginning of Creation. Satan had already been declared evil and had long before Creation been kicked out of heaven. Beginning is OUR beginning. Satan's beginning was Lucifer's end.

There is no beginning in the realm of the heavenly, to speak of.

As "Satan" means, "adversary", do you really think, knowing God, that He would allow Lucifer to keep His majestic name, "Lightbearer"?


Come on. It is man's penchant to complicate very simple truths...


Simple religous truth based on Rome not the Bible....

There you go again ignore God’s Word, Satan had a beginning. There may be no beginning in the realm of heaven but Satan had a beginning; it was a liar, a murderer according to God’s Word, not an angel. Not good enough for you though; your creeds dictate your belief system.

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

How clear can you get I guess your old worn out wine skin cannot receive anything new.

Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..


The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he?

KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word. Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

Lucifer is not Satan; you cannot have two beginning; Satan was a liar, murderer from the beginning; some how you are trying to squeeze Lucifer beginning before Satan’s beginning; this is getting weird.

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.


Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
 
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