Sola fide! Scriptures way and Bishop Clements way

1 question to see if your in opposition to Pope Clement
Where do you stand in the salvation picture if you do none of those including prayer?

Are you guys denying that Trent took a position that made works an essential part of justification?
This left grace no longer being grace

Trent declared justification as a process where a sinner is actually made righteous.It said justification entails the whole process of sanctification.
According to the Council, justification is "not remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts by which an unjust man becomes just ."

http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.htm

CHAPTER VII
IN WHAT THE JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER CONSISTS, AND WHAT ARE ITS CAUSES
This disposition or preparation is followed by justification itself, which is not only a remission of sins but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes a friend, that he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.[30]
The causes of this justification are:
the final cause is the glory of God and of Christ and life everlasting; the efficient cause is the merciful God who washes and sanctifies[31] gratuitously, signing and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance,[32] the meritorious cause is His most beloved only begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies,[33] for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us,[34] merited for us justification by His most holy passion on the wood of the cross and made satisfaction for us to God the Father, the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith,[35] without which no man was ever justified finally, the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind,[36] and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost distributes to everyone as He wills,[37] and according to each one's disposition and cooperation.
For though no one can be just except he to whom the merits of the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated, yet this takes place in that justification of the sinner, when by the merit of the most holy passion, the charity of God is poured forth by the Holy Ghost in the hearts[38] of those who are justified and inheres in them; whence man through Jesus Christ, in whom he is ingrafted, receives in that justification, together with the remission of sins, all these infused at the same time, namely, faith, hope and charity.
For faith, unless hope and charity be added to it, neither unites man perfectly with Christ nor makes him a living member of His body.[39]
For which reason it is most truly said that faith without works is dead[40] and of no profit, and in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision, but faith that worketh by charity.[41]
This faith, conformably to Apostolic tradition, catechumens ask of the Church before the sacrament of baptism, when they ask for the faith that gives eternal life, which without hope and charity faith cannot give.
Whence also they hear immediately the word of Christ:
If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[42]
Wherefore, when receiving true and Christian justice, they are commanded, immediately on being born again, to preserve it pure and spotless, as the first robe[43] given them through Christ Jesus in place of that which Adam by his disobedience lost for himself and for us, so that they may bear it before the tribunal of our Lord Jesus Christ and may have life eternal.

Yarddog said:

Hello Simon,

Here is a link which may be helpful. It is for a joint Declaration for the Doctrine of Justification, between the RCC and the Lutheran Church.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p..._31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

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No thanks already read it...though if you want to start a new thread i'll tell why this declaration is absolutely WORTHLESS.

It funny all the responses thus far have been on what (C)atholics think WE think their doctrines are...I don't think they know what to do when one of us actually understands and approaches it from the unbiblical view that it IS.

Annolennar said:

So now you're going to posit that not only are Catholics wrong when they say what they believe, because they don't really know what they believe, but that they are also wrong in what they think you think they think they believe? And therefore should accept your proposition that what they believe is wrong?

Wow. Just wow.

Sometimes I'm almost sure that the things I read in GT have got to be a joke.

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Where did I say catholics were wrong when they say what they believe...
You sure like to put words in my mouth...

The only thing i've pointed out is what the true Catholic view of salvation is from TRENT...

I've also showed that Clement had a totally different view but I never once suggested you were wrong when you say what YOU believe! Just that what you believe is in opposition to Scripture and Clement NOT to trent and the catechism.

BenedicamusDomino said:

Does anyone have anything better to do than to find fault with others. Why not love each other for a change.
pax

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Teaching people to understand exactly what their doctrines mean is LOVE, friend! I am not pointing at fault in others rather sharing the exact truth of a system of belief that contradicts scripture.

jckstraw72 said:

Simon you DO say Catholics dont know what they believe because they tell you that their beliefs fall in line with what Clement has written but you say they do not. Perhaps your understanding of Catholicism is deficient? You might want to at least consider it.

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Well if one says they are contradictory and shows how they are and the other says they are not but can't show that alls that is would be reasoning with the information provided...