Bible Versions

BigNorsk said:

If you wanted a Majority Text translation. The best example of that would be the English Majority Text Version. That is available in the Apostle's Bible with an English Translation of the Septuagint as the Old Testament. Certainly a rather unique and worthwhile addition to a study library.

And it's true the Textus Receptus family is not a text type. It's mostly from a subset of the Majority Text, though the single manuscript which had an incomplete copy of Revelation was Alexandrian. Erasmus did have a very good manuscript but he hardly used it. In any case his text was not even a critical text of the manuscript he had. Your disagreement on whether the KJV is based on the Textus Receptus or not is really just an arguement of sematics. One is taking Textus Receptus in the very narrow meaning to be a specific volume of the lineage, one which did not exist until after the KJV, and the other is including the lineage in the statement.

Marv

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Thanks for the info. So, what is the KJV based on in your opinion? And is it accurate to say that the KJV is not based on the MT or TR?

Peace

spiritman said:

You made some good points. Are there any other translations besides the KJV and NKJV that you believe are reliable? And where are your articles?

Peace

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I have written a number of these. Here is one. In this article, the term "textus receptus is used in its general sense, not in its specific sense, as correctly observed by LamorakDesGalis. The Greek and Hebrew characters were in Unicode and thus did not copy correctly here, so they appear scrambled in this post. To see them correctly, copy this article into your word processor and change all the Greek and Hebrew sections into appropriate Unicode fonts, and they will appear properly.



Passages in the King James translation that vary significantly from the the Textus Receptus or the Masoretic text:

In 1 Thessalonians 2:15, the KJV reads that the Jews “both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us,” but in the place where the King James Version reads “persecuted us,” the Textus Receptus reads hmaV [you] ekdiwxantwn [have persecuted.]

In Matthew 23:24 the King James Version this verse reads “Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.” But the Textus Receptus clearly says “out,” not “at.” The Greek word used here is diulizonteV , which indicates strain out, in the sense of pouring a liquid through a filter, not strain at, as in having difficulty swallowing. This error obviously resulted from a mistake in printing, for no translator would make such an error, but a printer could very easily make such a mistake. But the error was never corrected and remains in the King James Version to this day.

In1 Cor 3:17 the King James Version reads “If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.” But the Textus Receptus reads ei [if] tiV [anyone] ton [the] naon [temple] tou [the] Qeou [of God] fqeirei [corrupt], fqerei [corrupt] touton [him] o [the] QeoV [God] o [the] gar [for] naoV [temple] tou [the] Qeou [God] agioV [holy] estin [is], oitineV [which] este [are] umeiV [you]. So in the first occurrence of the Greek word fqeirei [corrupt] in this verse, the King James Version correctly translates it as “defile.” But to render this word as “destroy,” as the King James Version did in the second case, changes the sense of the Textus Receptus.

In Luke 18:12 the King James Version reads “I give tithes of all that I possess.”But the Textus receptus reads apodekatw [I tithe] panta [all] osa [as much as] ktwmai [I gain].

In 1 John 2:23 the KJV reads “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (But) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” The italicized words are not in the Textus Receptus.

In Luke 17:36 the King James Version reads “Two men shall be in the field; and one shall be taken, the other left,” This entire verse was not in the edition of the Textus Receptus used by the translators of the1611 King James Version. The translators themselves recognized this with a marginal note in the 1611 edition reading “This 36. verse is wanting in most of the Greek copies.” This verse was not added to the Textus Receptus until the edition published by the Elzevir brothers in 1624, thirteen years after the King James Version was published.

In 1 Kings 20:38 The King James Version reads “So the prophet departed, and waited for the king by the way, and disguised himself with ashes upon his face.” But in the place where the King James Version reads “ashes upon his face” the Masoretic text reads “bandage over his eyes.”

In Proverbs 18:24 the King James Version reads “A man that hath friends must show himself friendly.” But the Masoretic text reads “may come to ruin” in the place where the king James Version reads “must show himself friendly.”

“God of forces”
In the place where we find this word in the King James Version, the Masoretic text reads “God of fortresses. ”
This was done in Daniel 11:38

“Diana”
In every place where we find this name in the King James Version, the Textus Receptus clearly says “Artemis.” Names are transliterated, not translated. There is no excuse for changing “Artemis” to “Diana.”
This was done five times in:
Acts 19:24, 27, 28, 34, 35

“The profession of our faith”
In the place where we find this word in the King James Version, The Textus Receptus says “the profession of out hope.”
This was done in Hebrews 10:23

The following list gives the King James wording first, followed by the variation from either Erasmus (E) or Stephen's (S).

Matthew 24:3 saying, tell us/ KJ
saying, tell you/ (E)
24:6 for all these things/ KJ*
for all things/ (S)
24:27 so shall be also/ KJ
so shall be/ (E)
24:45 whom his lord hath made/ KJ
whom the lord hath made (E)

spiritman said:

You made some good points. Are there any other translations besides the KJV and NKJV that you believe are reliable? And where are your articles?

Peace

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Many KJVOnly advocates insist that there are no revisions in the KJV. But I have a copy of the original 1611 version of the KJV and have personally checked all these revisions. This list is far from all inclusive. it is simply enough to conclusively prove that our KJV Bibles are revisions of the 1611 KJV, not the originals. Unfortunately, the columns did not come out right, so they had to be changed to lines in sets for each example.

KJV Differences & Revisions

SCRIPTURE
A.V. KJV (1611)
Current KJV (1850)

Genesis 19:21
concerning this thing
concerning this thing also

Genesis 23:18
gates
gate

Genesis 39:1
hand
hands

Genesis 39:16
her lord
his lord

Genesis 47:6
any man
any men

Exodus 15:25
he made a statute
he made for them a statute

Exodus 21:32
thirty shekels
thirty shekels of silver

Exodus 23:13
names
name

Exodus 35:29
hands
hand

Leviticus 2:4
it shall be an unleavened cake
it shall be unleavened cakes

Leviticus 10:14
sacrifice
sacrifices

Leviticus 19:34
shall be as one born
shall be unto you as one born

Leviticus 20:11
shall be put to death
shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 25:23
were strangers
are strangers

Leviticus 26:23
be reformed by these things
be reformed by me by these things

Leviticus 26:40
the iniquity of their fathers
their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers

Numbers 4:40
houses
house

Numbers 7:55
charger of an hundred and thirty sheckels
charger of the weight of an hundred and thirty shekels

Deutnomy 5:29
keep my commandments
keep all my commandments

Joshua 3:11
covenant, even the Lord
covenant of the Lord

Joshua 7:14 b
households
household

Ruth 3:15
and he went into the citie.
and she went into the city.

1 Samuel 18:27
David arose, he and his men
David arose and went, he and his men

1 Samuel 28:7
servant
servants

2 Samuel 16:8
to thy mischief
in thy mischief

2 Kings 11:10
in the temple.
in the temple of the LORD.

2 Kings 23:21
this book of the Covenant
the book of this covenant

1 Chron 7:5
were men of might
were valiant men of might

1 Chron 11:15
of David
to David

2 Chron 28:22
this
his

Job 33:22
His soul draweth near
Yea, his soul draweth near

Psalm 141:9
snare
snares

Proverbs 7:21
With much fair speech
With her much fair speech

Eccles 2:16
shall be forgotten
shall all be forgotten

Sg of Solm 4:6
mountains
mountain

Sg of Solm 5:12
water
waters

Isaiah 34:11
The cormorant and the bittern
But the cormorant and the bittern

Isaiah 49:13
heaven
heavens

Isaiah 49:13
God
the LORD

Isaiah 57:8
and made a covenant
and made thee a covenant

Jeremiah 4:6
standards
standard

Jeremiah 31:14
be satisfied with goodness
be satisfied with my goodness

Jeremiah 34:16
whom ye
whom he

Jeremiah 31:18
thou art the Lord my God
for thou art the Lord my God

Jeremiah 51:12
watchman
watchmen

Jeremiah 51:30
their
her

Ezekiel 6:8
that he may
that ye may

Ezekiel 12:19
violence of them
violence of all them

Ezekiel 24:5
him
them

Ezekiel 24:7
poured it upon the ground
poured it not upon the ground

Ezekiel 48:8
they
ye

Daniel 3:15
the midst of a fiery furnace
the midst of a burning fiery furnace

Daniel 12:13
the lot
thy lot

Joel 3:13
the wickedness
their wickedness

Amos 8:3
Temples
temple

Zechariah 7:7
of the plain
and the plain

Malachi 3:4
offerings
offering

Matthew 12:23
Is this the son of David?
Is not this the son of David?

Matthew 14:9
othes
oath's

Matthew 16:16
Thou art Christ
Thou art the Christ

Mark 6:26
othes
oath's

John 11:3
sister
sisters

John 12:22
told
tell

John 15:20
the Lord
his Lord

Acts 5:34
a doctor of law
a doctor of the law

Romans 14:10
we shall all stand
for we shall all stand

1 Corinth 10:28
The earth is the Lords
for the earth is the Lord's

1 Corinth 12:28
helps in governments
helps, governments

1 Corinth 15:6
And
After

Philippians 4:6
request
requests

2 Thessa 2:14
the Lord Jesus Christ
our Lord Jesus Christ

1 Timothy 1:4
rather than edifying
rather than godly edifying

2 Timothy 4:8
unto them also
unto all them also

Hebrews 3:10
hearts
heart

Hebrews 12:1
run with patience unto the race
run with patience the race

1 John 5:12
he that hath not the Son, hath not life.
he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Revelation 13:6
dwelt
dwell

spiritman said:

You made some good points. Are there any other translations besides the KJV and NKJV that you believe are reliable? And where are your articles?

Peace

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Dynamic equivalence in the King James Version of the Bible

Many think that it is improper or irreverent to use any translation of the Bible except the King James Version. Some go so far as to claim that there are no errors in the King James Version of the Bible, that it is the perfect and only representation of the word of God in the English language. Those who say this often denounce other translations for using “dynamic equivalence.” They say that this a false principle that ruins any translation that uses it, making it totally unworthy of use or respect. But what is this concept called “dynamic equivalence?”

Language translators often point out that a statement made in one language would lose much of its meaning if only its exact words are translated into the new language. So they often change words in an attempt to represent the thought expressed in the source language, as opposed to simply representing the words originally used. They call this concept “dynamic equivalence,” as opposed to “verbal equivalence,” by which they mean simply representing the words used in the original. All translations use a mixture of “verbal equivalence” and “dynamic equivalence.” This is done in all commonly used translations of the Bible. Some use a great deal of “dynamic equivalence,” some only use a little. But all use it. The King James Version of the Bible is no exception to this rule.

This concept was once used in translating a debate in the United Nations. A British speaker said that doing a certain thing would be “like sending coal to the burns.” This was a common British expression for doing something that made no sense, because there was a place which they called “the burns,” and there was an abundance of coal in that place. A Russian translator, upon hearing this, said it would be “like sending ice to Siberia.” The words used were completely different, but the translator accurately represented the thought expressed by the original speaker.

Here are a few examples of “dynamic equivalence” in the King James Version of the Bible.

“God forbid”
In every place where we find these words in the King James Version, the original Greek or Hebrew texts contain no reference to God, whether directly or by implication. Neither do they contain any thought of prohibition. The Masoretic (Hebrew) text uses words that would be more accurately translated as “far be it from” [me or him, etc.] And the Textus Receptus (Greek) text uses words that would be more accurately translated as “let it never be” or “may it never be.” So the words “God forbid” do not accurately represent the very words used by God. The translators of the King James Version substituted these words for the ones God used because in 1611 the English often used this expression to deny any possibility that something might be done.
This was done 24 times in:
Gen 44:7, 17
Jos 22:29; 24:16
1 Sam 12:23; 14:45; 20:2
1 Chrn 11:19
Job 27:5
Luke 20:16
Rom 3:4, 6, 31; 6:2, 15; 7:7, 13; 9:14; 11:1, 11
1 Cor 6:15
Gal 2:17; 3:21; 6:14
“God save the king”
In every place where we find these words in the King James Version, the original Hebrew texts contain no reference to God, whether directly or by implication. Neither do they suggest any thought of deliverance. The Masoretic text uses words that would be more accurately translated, “may the king live.” So the words “God save the king” do not accurately represent the very words used by God. The translators of the King James Version substituted these words for the ones God used because in 1611 the English often used this expression to express support for their king.
This was done 8 times in:
1 Sam 10:24;
2 Sam 16:16 (The phrase was used twice in this verse.)
1 Kings 1:25, 34, 39 (In these three places the King James Version omitted the word “the.”)
2 Kings 11:12
2 Chr 23:11

“God speed”
In the places we find these words in the King James Version, the word used in the Textus Receptus was an expression of joy that was commonly used as a greeting or as a salutation. This word contained no reference to God, ether directly or by implication. Neither did it contain any suggestion of swiftness. So the words “God speed” do not accurately represent the very word used by God. The translators of the King James Version substituted these words for the one God used because in 1611 the English often used this expression to express good wishes for someone who was departing. This was done twice, in:
2 John 2:10
2 John 2:11

“Cross”
In every place where we find this word in the King James Version, the word used in the Textus Receptus indicated a “stake” or a “post.” The thought of two pieces of wood fastened together was not even implied. So the word “cross,” although it accurately represents a place where people were cruelly executed by hanging them with nails through their hands and feet, does not accurately represent the very words used by God. The translators of the King James Version substituted this word for the one God used because men commonly think that Jesus was crucified on two pieces of wood fastened together.
This was done 28 times in:
Mat 10:38; 16:24; 27:32, 40, 42
Mark 8:34; 10:21; 15:21, 30, 32
Luke 9:23; 14:27; 23:26
John 19:17, 19, 25, 31
1 Cor 1:17, 18
Gal 5:11; 6:12, 14
Eph 2:16
Phil 2:8: 3:18
Col 1:20; 2:14
Heb 12:2

“Lucifer”
In the only place where we find this word in the King James Version, the Masoretic text reads “Day Star.” The words “Day Star” in the Masoretic text indeed refer to Satan, and he is often called “Lucifer.” But the name “Lucifer” does not occur anywhere in the Masoretic text.
This was done in Isaiah 14:12.

“Calvary”
In the place where we find this word in the King James Version, The Textus Receptus says “skull,”
the same word we find in Matt 27:33, where we read of “a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull.” The translators of the King James Version substituted this word for the one God used because that place came to be called by this name because the Latin word for skull is “calvaria.”
This was done in Luke 23:33

“Easter”
In the place where we find this word in the King James Version, The Textus Receptus clearly says “Passover.” The word “Easter” indeed expresses the approximate time referred to, but changes the reference from a Jewish feast that could come on any day of the week to a celebration that comes only on Sunday and was not even invented until hundreds of years after God used this word.
This was done in Acts 12:4.

“Robbers of churches”
In the place where we find this expression in the King James Version, The Textus Receptus says “robbers of temples.” The words “robbers of churches” indeed represent the thought of robbers of places of worship, but change the places referred to from places where false Gods are worshiped to places where the one true God is worshiped.
This was done in Acts 19:37.

“Hail”
In every place we find this word in the King James Version as an acclamation, (as opposed to the same English word concerning frozen rain) the Textus Receptus has an expression of joy that was commonly used as a greeting or salutation. This is the same word translated as “God speed” in 2 John 2:10,11, and is translated as “greeting” in Acts 15:23 and James 1:1 and as “farewell” in 2 Cor 13:11. It would seem that the translators of the King James Version substituted this word for the one God used because it is commonly used in recognition of greatness and they thought that this was the sense intended in these places.
This was done six times in:
Mat 26:49; 27:29; 28:9
Mark 15:18
Luke 1:28
John 19:3

“Prosper”
In most of the places where we find this word in the King James Version, the Masoretic text indeed says “prosper,” but in some places it says “do wisely.” In these places the translators of the King James Version apparently substituted “prosper” for the word God used because wisdom brings prosperity. But God did not say “prosper” in these places, even though He did say it in many other places.
This was done 9 times in:
Deut 29:9
Jos 1:7, 8
1 Kings 2:3
2 Kings 18:7
Prv 17:8
Jer 10:21, 20:11, 23:5

“Sat”
In most of the places where we find this word in the King James Version, the Textus Receptus indeed says “sat,” but in some places it says “laid,” in the sense of “reclined.” In these places the translators of the King James Version substituted “sat” for the word God used because we no longer lay down at a table, as they did in new Testament times.
This was done 8 times in:
Matthew 9:18, 26:7, 20
Mark 14:18, 16:14
Luke 7:37, 49
John 6:11

“Guests”
The same Greek word mentioned above, “reclined” was interpreted, rather than translated, as “guests” in two more places. This was done in:
Matthew 22:10, 11

“Swear”
In most of the places where we find this word in the King James Version, the Masoretic text indeed says “swear,” but in some places it says “lifted up my hand” or “lift up his hand.” In these places the translators of the King James Version apparently substituted “swear” for the words God used because of the custom of raising a hand when taking an oath. But God did not say “swear” in these places, even though He did say it in many other places.
This was done twice in:
Exodus 6:7
Isaiah 3:25

“Guilty”
In most of the places where this word is found in the King James Version, the Greek word used in the Textus Receptus indicated liability for punishment, that is, guilt. But in one place the Greek word in the Textus Receptus indicates financial indebtedness, rather than liability for punishment.
This was done in:
Matthew 23:18

“Comforter”
In every place this word is found in the New Testament, the Greek word used in the Textus Receptus indicated an “intercessor,” in the sense of a legal attorney, rather that someone that gives emotional support.
This was done 4 times in:
John 14:16, 26, 15:26, 16:7

“Comfortless”
In the only place where this word is found in the King James Version, the Textus Receptus clearly says “orphans,” not “comfortless.” The translators of the King James Version used this word instead of the word God used because of their interpretation of the Greek word “ntercessor” as “comforter.”
This was done in:
John 14:18


“Dishonesty”
In the only place this word is found in the King James Version, the Textus Receptus says “shame,” not “dishonesty.” The translators of the King James Version substituted this word for the one God used, because dishonesty is shameful, But God did not say “dishonesty.” He said “shame”
This was done in:
2 Corinthians 4:2

This is 100 undeniable examples of “dynamic equivalence” in the King James Version of the Bible. This is not a complete list of places where this was done, but anyone that would not be convinced by a hundred examples would not be convinced by a thousand.

spiritman said:

You made some good points. Are there any other translations besides the KJV and NKJV that you believe are reliable? And where are your articles?

Peace

Click to expand...

Where Did KJV Onlyism Come From?

Benjamin G. Wilkinson, “Our Authorized Bible Vindicated,” 1930, a Seventh Day Adventist
Wrote his book to defend the KJV wording of several “proof texts” used by SDAs to establish their doctrines. Two main texts were:

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Originated use of Psalm 12:6-7 to “prove” that the KJV is the “preserved” word of God.
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Psalm 12:6-7
But an examination of Psalm 12 shows that verse 7 refers back to verse 5, not to verse 6.
Psalm 12
To the chief Musician upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David.
1 Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.
2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.
3 The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:
4 Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?
5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

Wilkerson made the unfounded claim that the medieval Waldensian Bible was based on the Old Latin version and not the Vulgate, and that the Old Latin version was Byzantine in its text-type.

J. J. Ray, “God Wrote Only One Bible,” 1955, heavily plagiarized and did not credit Wilkerson’s book. He did not reveal that his information came from a Seventh Day Adventist.

Peter S. Ruckman, “The Bible Babel,” 1964 had charts taken from Ray’s book. Started the false claim that the KJV is not copyrighted. This man has been divorced twice and is married a third time.

David Otis Fuller, “Which Bible,” 1970, 350 pages, almost half of which were taken from Ray’s book.
Also wrote “Counterfeit or Genuine,” 1975. He was accused by his KJV only associate D. A. Waite of wilfully concealing the fact that his ideas came from a Seventh Day Adventist because the Baptist brethren “wouldn’t understand.”

These were followed by Gail A. Riplinger, “New Age Bible Versions,” 1993. This woman was twice divorced, claiming for her grounds only “extreme cruelty,” and has married a third time.

All the above writers after J. J. Ray have been accused of misrepresenting many people they quote in their books.

Biblewriter said:

Many KJVOnly advocates insist that there are no revisions in the KJV. But I have a copy of the original 1611 version of the KJV and have personally checked all these revisions. This list is far from all inclusive. it is simply enough to conclusively prove that our KJV Bibles are revisions of the 1611 KJV, not the originals. Unfortunately, the columns did not come out right, so they had to be changed to lines in sets for each example.

Click to expand...

I also have a copy of the 1611 Bible. My preference has always been the KJV. Although I have used the NIV and NKJV in the past. When I study I always use the Greek.

BTW I didn't see an answer to my question regarding other translations. Did you miss it or prefer not to answer that one?

spiritman said:

I also have a copy of the 1611 Bible. When I study I always use the Greek.
Did you check these revisions against the Greek also?

BTW I didn't see an answer to my question regarding other translations. Did you miss it or prefer not to answer that one?

Click to expand...

So do I. Where do you get your texts from?

Many KJV Only advocates pretend that when some other translations say "the Christ" in places where the KJV says "Christ," these other translations are inserting a false New Age concept of Christ into the scriptures. But the KJV omits the article in regard to Christ in MOST of the places where it occurs in the Textus Receptus. As in previous articles in this series, the Greek words were typrset in Unicode, so they appear scrambled here. To see them properly, copy this article into a word processor and change the font of the Greek words into a suitable Unicode Greek font. Again, the columns did not come out right. This time the columns are delineated by using italics.

Places where the Textus Receptus uses the article in reference to Christ and the KJV omits it.

Reference Greek words in TR Literal Translation KJV rendering of Greek words in TR
Matt 1:17 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Matt 2:4 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Matt 11:2 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Matt 22:42 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Matt 23:8 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Matt 23:10 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Matt 24:5 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Matt 24:23 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Mark 12:35 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Mark 15:32 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Luke 4:41a o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Luke 4:41b ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Luke 20:41 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Luke 23:2 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Luke 23:35 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Luke 23:39 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Luke 24:26 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
John 7:31 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
John 7:41b o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
John 7:42 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
John 12:34 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 2:30 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 2:31 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 3:18 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 4:26 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 5:42 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 8:5 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 9:20 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 9:22 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 17:3a ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 17:3b o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 18:5 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 18:28 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 19:4 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Acts 26:23 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 1:16 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 7:4 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 8:11 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 8:35 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 9:3 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 9:5 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 14:10 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 14:18 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 15:3 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 15:7 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 15:18 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 15:19 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 15:29 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rom 16:16 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 1:6 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 1:13 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 1:17 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 3:11 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 6:15 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 9:12 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 9:18 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 10:4 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 10:9 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 10:16a tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 10:16b tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 11:3 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 12:12 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 15:15 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Cor 15:22 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 1:5a tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 2:12 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 2:14 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 3:4 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 4:4 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 5:10 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 5:14 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 9:13 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 10:1 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 10:5 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 10:14 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 11:2 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 11:3 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Cor 12:9 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Gal 1:7 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Gal 5:4 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Gal 5:24 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Gal 6:2 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Gal 6:12 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 1:10 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 1:12 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 1:20 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 2:5 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 2:13b tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 3:1 tou Cristou Iesou the Christ Jesus Jesus Christ (without article)
Eph 3:4 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 3:6 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 3:8 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 3:17 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 3:19 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 4:7 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 4:12 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 4:13 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 4:15 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 4:20 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 5:2 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 5:5 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 5:14 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 5:23 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 5:24 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 5:25 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 6:5 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Eph 6:6 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Php 1:15 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Php 1:16 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Php 1:27 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Php 2:21 tou Cristou Ihsou the Christ Jesus Jesus Christ’s (without article)
Php 2:30 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Php 3:7 ton Criston the Christ Christ (without article)
Php 3:12 tou Cristou Ihsou the Christ Jesus Christ Jesus (without article)
Php 3:18 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 1:7 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 1:24 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 2:2 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 2:6 ton Criston Ihsoun the Christ Jesus Christ Jesus (without article)
ton Kurion the Lord the Lord
Col 2:11 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 2:17 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 2:20 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 3:1a tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 3:1b o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 3:3 tw Cristw the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 3:4 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 3:13 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 3:16 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Col 4:3 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Thes 3:2 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Thes 2:2 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 Thes 3:5 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Tim 5:11 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Heb 3:14 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Heb 5:5 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Heb 6:1 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Heb 9:14 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Heb 9:24 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Heb 9:28 o CristoV the Christ Christ (without article)
Heb 11:26 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 Pet 4:13 tou Cristou the Christ Christ’s (without article)
1 Pet 5:1 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
1 John 5:6 IhsouV o CristoV Jesus the Christ Jesus Christ (without article)
2 John 1:9a tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
2 John 1:9b tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rev 11:15 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rev 12:10 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
Rev 20:6 tou Cristou the Christ Christ (without article)
148 occasions

Places where the Textus Receptus uses the article in reference to Christ and the KJV includes it.

Reference Greek words in TR Literal Translation KJV rendering of Greek words in TR
Matt 16:16 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
Matt 16:20 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
Matt 26:63 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
Mark 8:29 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
Mark 14:61 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
Luke 2:26 ton Criston Kuriou the Christ Lord’s the Lord’s Christ
Luke 3:15 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
Luke 9:20 ton Criston the Christ the Christ
Luke 22:67 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 1:20 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 1:25 o CristoV the Christ that Christ
John 1:41 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 3:28 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 4:29 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 4:42 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 6:69 o CristoV the Christ that Christ
John 7:26 alhqwV o CristoV truly the Christ the very Christ
John 7:41a o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 10:24 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 11:27 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
John 20:31 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
1 John 2:22 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
1 John 5:1 o CristoV the Christ the Christ
23 occasions
Total number of occurrences of one of these Greek word forms in the TR: 171
Percentage of times the KJV renders these words the same as in the TR: 13.5%

Forms of the article used with the word Christ.

o CristoV IhsouV o CristoV
tou Cristou,tou Cristou Ihsou
tw Cristw
ton Criston , ton Criston Kuriou, ton Criston Ihsoun ton Kurion

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Greetings. In that case, why is the article "the" not used before God in translations? That is how I do mine.

John 1:1 | en <1722> {IN} arch <746> {A-BEGINNING} hn <2258> (5713) {WAS} o <3588> {THE} logoV <3056> {WORD,} kai <2532> {AND} o <3588> {THE} logoV <3056> {WORD} hn <2258> (5713) {WAS} proV <4314> {NEAR/TOWARD} ton <3588> {THE} qeon <2316> {GOD,} kai <2532> {AND} qeoV <2316> {GOD} hn <2258> (5713) {WAS} o <3588> {THE} logoV <3056> {WORD.}

Revelation 12:5............ kai <2532> {AND} hrpasqh <726> (5681) {WAS CAUGHT AWAY} to <3588> {THE} teknon <5043> {OFFSPRING} authV <846> {OF HER} proV <4314> {NEAR/TOWARD} ton <3588> {THE} qeon <2316> {GOD} kai <2532> {AND} ton <3588> {THE} qronon <2362> {THRONE} autou <846> {OF HIM}

LittleLambofJesus said:

So do I. Where do you get your texts from?

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BYZ and TR

spiritman said:

BYZ and TR

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I use the T-R at this site but wondering if there are other versions available.
Translating Revelation was a real challenge

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Reve 1:11 saying: "[*I am the A and O, the first and the last and] which thou are seeing write! into a scrollet and send! to the seven Out-Calleds [*the in asia] into Efeson, and into Smurnan, and into Pergamon and into Quateira and into Sardei and into Filadelfeian and into Laodikeian"

ByzMaj) Revelation 1:11 legoushV *** **** ** * *** ** * * ****** *** ** ******** *** o blepeiV grayon eiV biblion kai pemyon taiV epta ekklhsiaiV eiV efeson kai eiV smurnan kai eiV pergamon kai eiV quateira kai eiV sardeiV kai eiV filadelfeian kai eiV laodikeian

W-H) Revelation 1:11 legoushV *** **** ** * *** ** * * ****** *** ** ******** *** o blepeiV grayon eiV biblion kai pemyon taiV epta ekklhsiaiV eiV efeson kai eiV smurnan kai eiV pergamon kai eiV quateira kai eiV sardeiV kai eiV filadelfeian kai eiV laodikeian

TexRec) Revelation 1:11 legoushV egw eimi to a kai to w o prwtoV kai o escatoV kai o blepeiV grayon eiV biblion kai pemyon taiV ekklhsiaiV taiV en asia eiV efeson kai eiV smurnan kai eiV pergamon kai eiV quateira kai eiV sardeiV kai eiV filadelfeian kai eiV laodikeian

This is not so much an answer to complaints made by KJV Onlyists as a continuation of post number 5, but in regard to the Holy Spirit. The point of this post is simply to demonstrate that the KJV translators used no consistency whatsoever in their treatment of the Greek Article, at least in regard to the Holy Spirit.

All the formatting comments from post 5 apply here.

Reference Greek words in T R Literal Translation KJV rendering of Greek words in TR
Mat 1:18 pneumatoV Agiou spirit Holy the holy Ghost
Mat 1:20 PneumatoV estin Agiou Spirit is Holy the Holy Ghost
Mat 3:11 Pneumati Agiw Spirit Holy the Holy Ghost
Mat 12:31 tou PneumatoV the Spirit the Holy Ghost
Mat 12:32 tou PneumatoV tou Agiou the Spirit the Holy the Holy Ghost
Mat 28:19 tou Agiou PneumatoV the Holy Spirit the Holy Ghost
Mark 1:8 Pneumati Agiw Spirit Holy the Holy Ghost
Mark 3:29 to Pneuma to Agion the Spirit the Holy the Holy Ghost
Mark 12:36 tw Pneumati tw Agiw the Spirit the Holy the Holy Ghost
Mark 13:11 to Pneuma to Agion the Spirit the Holy the Holy Ghost

LittleLambofJesus said:

I use the T-R at this site but wondering if there are other versions available.
Translating Revelation was a real challenge

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Reve 1:11 saying: "[*I am the A and O, the first and the last and] which thou are seeing write! into a scrollet and send! to the seven Out-Calleds [*the in asia] into Efeson, and into Smurnan, and into Pergamon and into Quateira and into Sardei and into Filadelfeian and into Laodikeian"

ByzMaj) Revelation 1:11 legoushV *** **** ** * *** ** * * ****** *** ** ******** *** o blepeiV grayon eiV biblion kai pemyon taiV epta ekklhsiaiV eiV efeson kai eiV smurnan kai eiV pergamon kai eiV quateira kai eiV sardeiV kai eiV filadelfeian kai eiV laodikeian

W-H) Revelation 1:11 legoushV *** **** ** * *** ** * * ****** *** ** ******** *** o blepeiV grayon eiV biblion kai pemyon taiV epta ekklhsiaiV eiV efeson kai eiV smurnan kai eiV pergamon kai eiV quateira kai eiV sardeiV kai eiV filadelfeian kai eiV laodikeian

TexRec) Revelation 1:11 legoushV egw eimi to a kai to w o prwtoV kai o escatoV kai o blepeiV grayon eiV biblion kai pemyon taiV ekklhsiaiV taiV en asia eiV efeson kai eiV smurnan kai eiV pergamon kai eiV quateira kai eiV sardeiV kai eiV filadelfeian kai eiV laodikeian

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I don't follow. What versions of the TR? Or software?

spiritman said:

I also have a copy of the 1611 Bible. My preference has always been the KJV. Although I have used the NIV and NKJV in the past. When I study I always use the Greek.

BTW I didn't see an answer to my question regarding other translations. Did you miss it or prefer not to answer that one?

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It took so long to format my articles that there were several responses before I finished.

As to other translations. I agree with the poster (I do not remember who) that said that the best translation to use was the one you will read.

In fine details, I do not trust any translation based on the Wescott and Horst type revisions. This has nothing to do with these men, just with their logic. But for general use, I do not know of a single translation that is not good. (But of course, some professed translations are not real translations, but actually commentaries on the scriptures. I do not recommend that anyone use any paraphrase.)

Edit- Except if he or she will read nothing else.

spiritman said:

I don't follow. What versions of the TR? Or software?

Click to expand...

I just copy the greek texts from that site to word pad then work with them. I do use an online interlinear to help with the word for word greek/hebrew and parsing.
This one seems to follow the W-H Ms which is ok as I compare all 3 greek texts anyway. You ever tried this?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

spiritman said:

I don't follow. What versions of the TR? Or software?

Click to expand...

I was using a printed copy of the Stephanus last edition.

LittleLambofJesus said:

I just copy the greek texts from that site to word pad then work with them. I do use an online interlinear to help with the word for word greek/hebrew and parsing.
This one seems to follow the W-H Ms which is ok as I compare all 3 greek texts anyway. You ever tried this?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Click to expand...

No. I think there may be a simpler way for you. Try this:


http://www.onlinebible.net/

http://www.crosswire.org/sword/index.jsp

Here's an example of what you can get from onlinebible by downloading the program. A few clicks and you get the Greek and other translations. I just pasted this from the software program in my computer to this site.

Rev 1:11

11 (av) Saying <3004> (5723), I <1473> am <1510> (5748) Alpha <1> and <2532> Omega <5598>, the first <4413> and <2532> the last <2078>: and <2532>, What <3739> thou seest <991> (5719), write <1125> (5657) in <1519> a book <975>, and <2532> send <3992> (5657) it unto the seven <2033> churches <1577> which <3588> are in <1722> Asia <773>; unto <1519> Ephesus <2181>, and <2532> unto <1519> Smyrna <4667>, and <2532> unto <1519> Pergamos <4010>, and <2532> unto <1519> Thyatira <2363>, and <2532> unto <1519> Sardis <4554>, and <2532> unto <1519> Philadelphia <5359>, and <2532> unto <1519> Laodicea <2993>.

11 (BYZ) legoushv <3004> (5723) o <3739> blepeiv <991> (5719) graqon <1125> (5657) eiv <1519> biblion <975> kai <2532> pemqon <3992> (5657) taiv <3588> epta <2033> ekklhsiaiv <1577> eiv <1519> efeson <2181> kai <2532> eiv <1519> smurnan <4667> kai <2532> eiv <1519> pergamon <4010> kai <2532> eiv <1519> yuateira <2363> kai <2532> eiv <1519> sardeiv <4554> kai <2532> eiv <1519> filadelfeian <5359> kai <2532> eiv <1519> laodikeian <2993>

11 (TR) legoushv <3004> (5723) egw <1473> eimi <1510> (5719) to <3588> a <1> kai <2532> to <3588> w <5598> o <3588> prwtov <4413> kai <2532> o <3588> escatov <2078> kai <2532> o <3739> blepeiv <991> (5719) graqon <1125> (5657) eiv <1519> biblion <975> kai <2532> pemqon <3992> (5657) taiv <3588> ekklhsiaiv <1577> taiv <3588> en <1722> asia <773> eiv <1519> efeson <2181> kai <2532> eiv <1519> smurnan <4667> kai <2532> eiv <1519> pergamon <4010> kai <2532> eiv <1519> yuateira <2363> kai <2532> eiv <1519> sardeiv <4554> kai <2532> eiv <1519> filadelfeian <5359> kai <2532> eiv <1519> laodikeian <2993>

11 (WH) legoushv <3004> (5723) o <3739> blepeiv <991> (5719) graqon <1125> (5657) eiv <1519> biblion <975> kai <2532> pemqon <3992> (5657) taiv <3588> epta <2033> ekklhsiaiv <1577> eiv <1519> efeson <2181> kai <2532> eiv <1519> smurnan <4667> kai <2532> eiv <1519> pergamon <4010> kai <2532> eiv <1519> yuateira <2363> kai <2532> eiv <1519> sardeiv <4554> kai <2532> eiv <1519> filadelfeian <5359> kai <2532> eiv <1519> laodikeian <2993>

Not sure whether this is useful to you but I like it. The other program is also useful in my view.

No. I think there may be a simpler way for you. Try this:


http://www.onlinebible.net/

http://www.crosswire.org/sword/index.jsp

Here's an example of what you can get from onlinebible by downloading the program. A few clicks and you get the Greek and other translations. I just pasted this from the software program in my computer to this site.

Click to expand...

That does look better as it shows the strong #s in all 3 texts. I will try it. Thanks.

Biblewriter said:

I was using a printed copy of the Stephanus last edition.

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It looks like you put a lot of work into it. Do you read Greek?

spiritman said:

Thanks for the info. So, what is the KJV based on in your opinion? And is it accurate to say that the KJV is not based on the MT or TR?

Peace

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Well, it really wouldn't be accurate to say it's based on the Majority Text, for the reason that Revelation is an incomplete Alexandrian Text.

You could just as well say the Greek Text is the Textus Receptus. There wasn't much of any changes to the one that claimed that title for itself, and most people actually use it for Erasmus' text, not the one that claimed the title for itself. There were revisions, but other than correcting errors, there wasn't a lot of changes in the family of texts. So I'd be just fine with saying the KJV is based on the Textus Receptus but just understand there's always someone who will define that very precisely and then have a heart attack if you say that.

But it's a bit more complicated than just saying that it follows a Greek text because the KJV doesn't just follow a Greek text.

The translators clearly follow the Latin from the Vulgate in places chosing it over the Greek text.

They weren't that great at Greek didn't even know about Koine Greek, and when they didn't know something or if the text was a bit iffy, they tended to follow a translation they did know. Since they had the Vulgate, as well as Tyndale' and Luther's translations, they used them as well.

So there is not a single Greek text that agrees with the KJV except for the Greek text created basically in reverse to represent the Greek of the KJV by Scrivener, some argue that even isn't quite right.

In any case, their difficulties with the New Testament were nothing compared to the Old. The Hebrew Text wasn't the best, and frankly the translators in many instances had not a clue what it meant. Lots of Vulgate and Septuagint in the Old Testament.

Marv