False Concept of God - A Divine Spectator

Ormly · Sep 18, 2008

simonthezealot said:
If anything I'd say this comment should be directed at ticker and the likes as it seems that they would suggest salvation was NOT a gift but a choice and then after that they are to just rest in Christ. So it seems their choice makes them good in God.
I know for a fact that those in favor of Lordship salvation that are of the calvin type of theology would certain KNOW that faith repentance and salvation are all gifts from God and NOT based on any choice or action we make.

Salvation is not a choice. That is why so many fail in their experience. Salvation is a crying to God from a need for it to which God may or may not grant His gift.

Meshavrischika · Sep 18, 2008

simonthezealot said:
If anything I'd say this comment should be directed at ticker and the likes as it seems that they would suggest salvation was NOT a gift but a choice and then after that they are to just rest in Christ. So it seems their choice makes them good in God.
I know for a fact that those in favor of Lordship salvation that are of the calvin type of theology would certain KNOW that faith repentance and salvation are all gifts from God and NOT based on any choice or action we make.

let me boggle your brain here too... without Him showing Himself to us, we wouldn't have chosen salvation either.

sunlover1 · Sep 18, 2008

Alethes said:
Hi ticker...yes, I agree. God is closer to us than our very breath! ....and He is always working within us to will and of His good pleausre.

I think there are Christians who do not see God as a "loving Father with His children." It takes an effort on our part not to allow ourselves to be distracted by the senses world, but to "Set our affection on things above ...." (Col. 3:2). God wants each of His children to have a personal and intimate relationship with Him. He talks to us and we can talk to Him. --- it's an on-going two-way conversation.

The following is a beautiful song called "MY God and I". I get chills up and down my spine every time I read it. Enjoy!

Amen Alethes.
:bow:

Reminds me of this one too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viliXiCihEQ

simonthezealot · Sep 18, 2008

ticker said:
Hey Simon.

Honestly...I think you're the first person in all the people I have ever discussed anything with on these boards who has even come close to such a conclusion about my beliefs.

How you understand myself (...or the "likes" such as ERM I guess) to not favour Lordship salvation kinda throws me for a loop.

Oh well.

The view you promote is rest in HIM (free grace) LS is CHRIST LordING your life.
In other words how is God ruling you if all your doing is resting in HIM?

You suggest that we do things out of obligation and that that is bad... ie work and friend being obliged to my LORD is NOT work it is reverance and it is LOVE and it is being all different parts of the body, He said if you love me keep my commands. YOU want to rest in HIM, scripture is about HIM being LORD over your life if that means work then work it is, if that means discipleship then discipleship it is, if that means love then love it is...Your comment when asked about repentance spoke volumes to me as you seem to have indicated it was once and done it appears you view that as a work as well?
Faith is not an opposition to submission or repentance ticker, faith is inseperable from repentance surrender and a longing to obey.

simonthezealot · Sep 18, 2008

simonthezealot said:
I've asked this...
Why do you do the acts of righteousness which you do?

ticker said:
Hey simon.

Nice of you to ask, but I'm not really feelin' like getting into much of a discussion with this stuff anymore actually. I'm just clearing up a couple things for everyone, but I'm not really into the topic itself anymore. Sorry, bud.

I don't think it is fair that your choosing not to answer this tick isn't it kinda the crux of our differences wouldn't it help us understand each other?

Alethes · Sep 18, 2008

ticker said:
Sure. I repented. I gave my heart to Jesus when I turned away from the ways of the world and looked to the ways of God. And so now that I live by the Spirit, repenting is a non-issue. Repenting and re-dedicating ourselves over and over every time we mess up/fall away/etc isn't what it's about anymore...that's just the flesh setting itself up for another dissapointment.

I agree. Repentance unto salvation, which is to confess Christ as your Savior from sin is a "one-time" occurrence. After we repent unto salvation (Romans 10:9) and are born again of God's Spirit, if and when we sin (breaks fellowship with God), 1 John 1:9 states "If we confess our sins [broken fellowship] he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins [broken fellowship], and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." He knows he is forgiven; thus his fellowship with God is restored and he can continue to walk in the light as God is light.

God is "faithful and just" to forgive us our sins because we have already received "remission of sins" which means our sins (past, present and future) have been totally wiped away, "Remission" of sins is for the unsaved sinner. "Forgiveness" of sins is for saved, born-again Christian.

I believe 1 John 1:9 is given to help Christians to maintain their fellowship with God. If and when a Christian sins (of which all sons are guilty), he will most likely condemn himself, which also breaks fellowship with God, because he cannot walk in the light while he keeps himself under condemnation. It is a great blessing and joy to our hearts to know that when we confess our sins, let it all out before God, we know that God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from "all" unrighteousness.

Knowing our sins are forgiven removes the weight or burden of self condemnation which hinders the believer from walking in the fullness of joy and being his absolute best for God. Once the believer's heart is set free from self-condemnation, he is again able to walk in fellowship with God and receive His love and goodness into fruition! :amen:

I would also like to add:

I John 3:20, 21:
For is our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all thing.

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

So long as man's heart, his innermost being, is condemning or accusing him for any reason, he cannot get answers to prayers because he does not have confidence towards God. He cannot believe and accept the simple promises of God's Word. Those who know they are righteous in Christ Jesus have no reason to fear. They can have confidence toward God and therefore think and live victoriously.

This is why it is so important that we maintain our fellowship with God, by walking in who we truly are and what we truly have, "in Christ!" :amen:

simonthezealot · Sep 18, 2008

Yes unto salvation is the one repenting time, but through life when a believer falls away for a tiime and realises he needs to do an about face and reconnect...That is repentance and that is ongoing and that is inseperable from faith and surrender and a longing to obey wouldn't you agree?

sunlover1 · Sep 18, 2008

Alethes said:
I believe 1 John 1:9 is given to help Christians to maintain their fellowship with God. If and when a Christian sins (and we all do), he will most likely condemn himself, which also breaks fellowship with God, because he cannot walk in the light while he keeps himself under condemnation. It is a great blessing and joy to our hearts to know that when we confess our sins, let it all out before God, we know that God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from "all" unrighteousness.

Knowing our sins are forgiven removes the weight or burden of self condemnation which hinders the believer from walking in the fullness of joy and being his absolute best for God. Once the believer's heart is set free from self-condemnation, he is again able to walk in fellowship with God and receive His love and goodness into fruition!

Amen. That's exactly how I see it, like I'd said earlier in the thread:

He delivered us, who through fear of death were all our lifetime
subject to bondage.
It wasnt Angels that he took the form of!
but he took on him the form of the seed of Abraham, of MAN.
So it was necessary for him to be made like us in all ways,
so that he could be a merciful and faithful high priest before God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that he himself has suffered and been tempted,
He is able to help us when we are tempted.

http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=48639487#_ftn2

God is so faithful!

And JUST! It would be unjust if, after the price Jesus paid, God were
to hold our sin against us.

:bow:

ticker · Sep 18, 2008

simonthezealot said:
I don't think it is fair that your choosing not to answer this tick isn't it kinda the crux of our differences wouldn't it help us understand each other?

Hey simon

Sorry you don't think it's fair (...I don't really see it as fair or unfair, I just don't feel like participating in a thread that I think I've said all I needed to say in already). And I don't actually think it's at the crux of our diffrences...I just wrote a post addressed to squint which is what I thought the crux of our differences were.

Peace

sunlover1 · Sep 18, 2008

ticker said:
Hey simon

Sorry you don't think it's fair (...(I don't really see it as fair or unfair, I just don't feel like participating in a thread that I think I've said all I needed to say in already).

Except that simon, beamish boy, myself and probably others
are confused by your words and now Simon asked ya an easy
question and you ignored it the first time and now say nah,
Im not interested in this discussion anymore.

And I don't actually think it's at the crux of our diffrences...I just wrote a post addressed to squint which is what I thought the crux of our differences were.

I saw that post on page 19 I think it was.
Again though, you're suggesting throughout this thread,
that we who might pray by schedule, discipline ourselves,
etc are not resting in Him but rather endeavoring to
establish our own righteousness, then ya throw in a wink wink
here and there to make the medicine easier to swallow.
While I appreciate you thinking you're doing me a service,
you have only half finished the job if we dont get it.

When we try to defend ourselves, (and truth
as I SEE it anyhow) ...
it's now, "Ah, Im not interested anymore".
From your posts, I dont think you have this thing
settled in your mind, and it's VERY important that
we settle things as they come up in our lives.
This is a good place to do that because you're
among people who care.. i see in Simon, alethes
and myself. (course Squint would say we're trying
to condemn you, or someone, somewhere is trying
to condemn someone anyhow)
Bless his heart.

imo
sunlover

Alethes · Sep 18, 2008

sunlover1 said:
Amen. That's exactly how I see it, like I'd said earlier in the thread:

He delivered us, who through fear of death were all our lifetime
subject to bondage.
It wasnt Angels that he took the form of!
but he took on him the form of the seed of Abraham, of MAN.
So it was necessary for him to be made like us in all ways,
so that he could be a merciful and faithful high priest before God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that he himself has suffered and been tempted,
He is able to help us when we are tempted.

God is so faithful!

And JUST! It would be unjust if, after the price Jesus paid, God were
to hold our sin against us.

Hi my sweet Sunlover,

Praying all is well with you and your loved ones. I knew you see it. Hey, I just added a few more verses to my post that I think will you and others as well.

God bless you and your big, beautiful heart!

Stay in touch,
Love you,
Alethes

Alethes · Sep 18, 2008

In case it got missed, I added the following to Post #206.

I John 3:20, 21:
For is our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all thing.

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

So long as man's heart, his innermost being, is condemning or accusing him for any reason, he cannot get answers to prayers because he does not have confidence towards God. He cannot believe and accept the simple promises of God's Word. Those who know they are righteous in Christ Jesus have no reason to fear. They can have confidence toward God and therefore think and live victoriously.

This is why it is so important that we maintain our fellowship with God, by walking in who we truly are and what we truly have, "in Christ!" :amen:

squint · Sep 18, 2008

sunlover1 said:
(course Squint would say we're trying
to condemn you, or someone, somewhere is trying
to condemn someone anyhow)
Bless his heart.

imo
sunlover

It doesn't take long at any christian message board to see that the majority REEK in perpetual condemnations and accusations amongst each other and even moreso to our fellow man.

And IF one tries to see THE DEVIL in the details 'in the midst' of believers ALL HELL breaks loose.

The devils work has always been to blame and accuse ourselves and our fellow man and that working surely transpires PRIMARILY in believers because of 'exposure' to the Word and the 'reflections' that are then brought forth BY GODS WORDS...from 'within.'

Leviathan (the dragon) will be dragged out by God's Words... It's unavoidable. But of course he is a hard and firey fighter to pull out of the sea.

Psalm 74:14
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Psalm 44:19
Though thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons, and covered us with the shadow of death.

Psalm 74:13
Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.

Years ago I looked in the mirror and saw my'self' as a wet pile of dust on it's way to the scattering wind. I thank God that the dragon meat in me will find it's final habitation as mire in the streets.

There God has measured unto all of us. Open wide for chunky stew kids.

enjoy!

squint

beamishboy · Sep 18, 2008

squint said:
It doesn't take long at any christian message board to see that the majority REEK in perpetual condemnations and accusations amongst each other and even moreso to our fellow man.

And IF one tries to see THE DEVIL in the details 'in the midst' of believers ALL HELL breaks loose.

The devils work has always been to blame and accuse ourselves and our fellow man and that working surely transpires PRIMARILY in believers because of 'exposure' to the Word and the 'reflections' that are then brought forth BY GODS WORDS...from 'within.'

Leviathan (the dragon) will be dragged out by God's Words... It's unavoidable. But of course he is a hard and firey fighter to pull out of the sea.

Psalm 74:14
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Psalm 44:19
Though thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons, and covered us with the shadow of death.

Psalm 74:13
Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
Years ago I looked in the mirror and saw my'self' as a wet pile of dust on it's way to the scattering wind. I thank God that the dragon meat in me will find it's final habitation as mire in the streets.

There God has measured unto all of us. Open wide for chunky stew kids.

enjoy!

squint

What are you talking about?????

ticker · Sep 18, 2008

sunlover1 said:
Except that simon, beamish boy, myself and probably others
are confused by your words and now Simon asked ya an easy
question and you ignored it the first time and now say nah,
Im not interested in this discussion anymore.

Hey sun.

I think you've rushed to an awful lot of conclusions here.

Firstly, it's not now that I've started saying I'm not interested in the discussion anymore. Maybe take a look at when simon first asked that question and what I had already said before that. I haven't gotten into any new line of questioning or into any new discussion on the topic itself since that time.

Secondly, it wasn't really an easy little question that I'd be answering according to me...(take a look at the 2 page discussion on it by simon and ElsanRandiMom right after which confirmed my belief).

sunlover1 said:
I saw that post on page 19 I think it was.
Again though, you're suggesting throughout this thread,
that we who might pray by schedule, discipline ourselves,
etc are not resting in Him but rather endeavoring to
establish our own righteousness, then ya throw in a wink wink
here and there to make the medicine easier to swallow.

Yeah...that post on page 19?...the one that I said described the crux of our differences? The one that also said...

"This thread though hasn't particularly focused on any justification or righteousness issues" ?

"When you're seeing others though saying stuff like "WE have to...", I don't think it's coming from a place of justification/acting righteous, etc..." ?

I'm honestly clueless about where these points you're making are coming from, sun. Throwing winks in so it's easier for you guys to swallow something...that I'm not even talking about?

sunlover1 said:
While I appreciate you thinking you're doing me a service, you have only half finished the job if we dont get it.

I'm not trying to do a job. And I have no obligation to do what you might think finishing a job entails. Sorry.

Why are you trying to coerce me into doing something I really don't have my heart into doing anymore (...after explaining I feel I've said everything I've needed to say)?

sunlover1 said:
When we try to defend ourselves, (and truth
as I SEE it anyhow) ...
it's now, "Ah, Im not interested anymore".

Already touched on this.

sunlover1 said:
From your posts, I dont think you have this thing
settled in your mind, and it's VERY important that
we settle things as they come up in our lives.

Ok.

sunlover1 said:
This is a good place to do that because you're among people who care.. i see in Simon, alethes
and myself. (course Squint would say we're trying
to condemn you, or someone, somewhere is trying
to condemn someone anyhow)

Thanks for your concern.

squint · Sep 18, 2008

beamishboy said:
What are you talking about?????

"And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them."

beamishboy · Sep 18, 2008

squint said:
"And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them."

Oh come on! He spoke about dragon meat and dragon stew I thought he was writing a Harry Potter Cookbook.

squint · Sep 18, 2008

beamishboy said:
Oh come on! He spoke about dragon meat and dragon stew I thought he was writing a Harry Potter Cookbook.[/quote]

Don't be too sure about that.

enjoy!

squint

sunlover1 · Sep 18, 2008

ticker said:
Yeah...that post on page 19?...the one that I said described the crux of our differences? The one that also said...

"This thread though hasn't particularly focused on any justification or righteousness issues" ?

"When you're seeing others though saying stuff like "WE have to...", I don't think it's coming from a place of justification/acting righteous, etc..." ?

This is what is confusing to me. I dont understand what you're
saying.

I'm not trying to do a job. And I have no obligation to do what you might think finishing a job entails. Sorry.

You said we arent resting in Christ, that we're trying to 'do'.
Certainly you have no obligation to me though.

Why are you trying to coerce me into doing something I really don't have my heart into doing anymore (...after explaining I feel I've said everything I've needed to say)?

Your call boss, but this conversation has come up before,
it's certain to come up again if we dont resolve it.
Not to mention the fact that one or both of us is wrong,
and I just hate walking in error.
Personally, I think it's more of an aversion to the word 'should'
but it seems you think I mean should as in, "a GOOD Christian
should ____________ (fill in the blank).
Which I dont mean btw.
We act from who we are, not the other way around.

Blessings,
sunlover

Meshavrischika · Sep 19, 2008

he's saying we've not been questioning your righteousness in our comments and that has not been the issue

False Concept of God - A Divine Spectator

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