If honour killing is an unIslamic practice...

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feral

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The illiteracy rate is incredible in some of the Muslim countries out there. Perhaps, as many authors on Islam have claimed, there are many Muslims who don't know what is accepted and forbidden according to the Qur'an and rely on the dictates of the culture or the madrassa to tell them what to think.

It's a problem though, yes, and needs to be ended.
 
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Nooj

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I'd like to think my ideology has stamped out honour killing in my country, or rather it may not have existed here in the first place. Islam on the other hand covers the geographical areas where honour killing is most prevalent, and Islam has been around for a longer time.

I don't expect Muslim lands to be the epitome of Islamic virtue (although they should be), but this backward and barbaric cultural practice should have been stamped out ages ago.
 
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mo.mentum

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Actually in damning report by the Jordanian interior ministry, they found that over 90% of homicide again women were declared "honor killings" because the person accused of the murder had actually used it as a way to get a lenient sentence, but the actual motive was entirely different. And no honor killings are certainly not Islamic, why? a) there are clear punishments for cases of adultery and fornication, none of which include death! b) this is clearly tribalism making a come back in a country that used to be filled with desert bedouin up until about 60 years ago, and who had their own tribal laws and not necessairly applied Islamic precepts per se.
 
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Nooj

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Actually in damning report by the Jordanian interior ministry, they found that over 90% of homicide again women were declared "honor killings" because the person accused of the murder had actually used it as a way to get a lenient sentence, but the actual motive was entirely different. And no honor killings are certainly not Islamic, why? a) there are clear punishments for cases of adultery and fornication, none of which include death! b) this is clearly tribalism making a come back in a country that used to be filled with desert bedouin up until about 60 years ago, and who had their own tribal laws and not necessairly applied Islamic precepts per se.
I agree with you. But why would the murderers use honour killings as a way to get a lenient sentence?
 
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mo.mentum

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Ah that question takes us on a much broader topic. Let me rephrase your question, "why are arab/islamic governments allowing such practices?" Because we are now in a slef admitted Dark Ages in the Islamic world. We're ruled by ignorant regimes, split apart into small tribes that call themselves nation-states, with bedouin monarchs ruling over us who really dont care about what goes on on the ground as long as the social order is not disrupted. And in the other end of the spectrum, we got fundementalist regimes that enforce a backwards and static version of their own understanding of the laws, based on previous interpretations, and no where near using the original Qur'anic texts to formulate their laws. So ya..we're stagnant and I'm the first to admit it. There needs to be a change, but to blame Islam for it is unfair. It's the lack of that is to blame.
 
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Futuwwa

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I'd like to think my ideology has stamped out honour killing in my country, or rather it may not have existed here in the first place. Islam on the other hand covers the geographical areas where honour killing is most prevalent, and Islam has been around for a longer time.

I don't expect Muslim lands to be the epitome of Islamic virtue (although they should be), but this backward and barbaric cultural practice should have been stamped out ages ago.

Does your ideology condone rape? If not, why does it exist in your society? And in larger numbers than honour killings exist anywhere, at that. Your ideology is guilty of not stamping it out.
-Excerpt from Reductio ad Absurdum for Dummies, by Futuwwa
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Does your ideology condone rape? If not, why does it exist in your society? And in larger numbers than honour killings exist anywhere, at that. Your ideology is guilty of not stamping it out.
-Excerpt from Reductio ad Absurdum for Dummies, by Futuwwa
Greetings. Where did JESUS ever condone killing in the NT/NC?

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7276015

Matt 23:34 "Because of this behold! I am Commissioning toward ye Prophets and Wise-men and Scribes, out of them ye shall be killing/apokteneite <615> (5692) and ye shall be Crucifying and out of them ye shall be scourging in the synagogues of ye and ye shall be persecuting/persuing from city into city"

Reve 11:7 `And whenever they should be finishing/teleswsin <5055> (5661) the testimony of them, the wild-beast, the one ascending out of the Abyss, shall be doing with them, battle, and shall be conquering them, and it shall be Killing/apoktenei <615> (5692) them
 
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Secundulus

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Does your ideology condone rape? If not, why does it exist in your society? And in larger numbers than honour killings exist anywhere, at that. Your ideology is guilty of not stamping it out.
-Excerpt from Reductio ad Absurdum for Dummies, by Futuwwa
Rape is illegal and punished under our laws.

Honor killings are given, at best, reduced sentences under the laws of many Islamic countries.

Your comparison fails.

As for why rapes or honor killings continue anywhere, see original sin.
 
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Secundulus

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Which is irrelevant for the evaluation of Nooj's absurd notion that an ideology is directly responsible for what goes on in places where it is prevalent.
It is not irrelevant to the fact that some (I agree not all) countries who claim to uphold Islamic law justify honor killings as a lesser crime (Jordon is one example).

Perhaps these countries are simply confused as to what Islamic law actually teaches? Why are their clerics wrong? Maybe they forgot to read the Quran.

Contrast this to the fact that there is not a single country on the face of the earth that attempts to justify rape as a lesser crime.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Rape is illegal and punished under our laws.

Honor killings are given, at best, reduced sentences under the laws of many Islamic countries.

Your comparison fails.

As for why rapes or honor killings continue anywhere, see original sin.
Perhaps you can explain that to the Muslims [and also the Jews while ur at it] :)

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Gene 3:24 And He is expelling the 'adam, and He causing to dwell from east to garden of Eden, the cherubim and flame of the sword, the one turning to guard/keep way of tree of the lives.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For just as in the adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all shall be being made alive
 
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Secundulus

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Perhaps you can explain that to the Muslims [and also the Jews while ur at it]
OK

"For I am well aware of my offences, my sin is constantly in mind. Against you, you alone, I have sinned, I have done what you see to be wrong, that you may show your saving justice when you pass sentence, and your victory may appear when you give judgement, remember, I was born guilty, a sinner from the moment of conception. But you delight in sincerity of heart, and in secret you teach me wisdom." (Psalm 51:3-6, NJB)


The Muslims may argue against this and say the text is corrupt. I'm really not sure what argument the Jews have against David.
 
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Nooj

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Does your ideology condone rape? If not, why does it exist in your society? And in larger numbers than honour killings exist anywhere, at that. Your ideology is guilty of not stamping it out.
-Excerpt from Reductio ad Absurdum for Dummies, by Futuwwa
Unfortunately, rape seems to be one of those despicable practices like murder that won't go away. Rape however is not a cultural practice.

Honour killing is, or at least some people tell me that it is. My ideology does not condone rape and I agree that Islam doesn't agree with honour killing either, but I do blame it for not stamping out cultural practices that are unlike rape in that honour killing is a learned behaviour. People must learn somewhere in their environment that familial honour is more important than familial love. Rape however is not a cultural practice. People do not learn that it is alright to rape, so I do not think your comparison is fair.

But I agree with mo.mentum that some people may be using honour killing as an excuse to get lenient sentences and so the numbers may be inflated.
 
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