Satan provoked Mohammed?

Luzeiro · Sep 10, 2008

Jefell said:
Im sure its not because it still happens today. Just a month ago there was an 8 year old that walked to court to get a divorce.

The beautiful thing is... the battle belongs to the LORD. There will be judgement day.. and ignorance will not be an excuse.

With Love,
- Jefell

The practice of children molestation is prevalent. Take a look at a muslim once in authority.
http://ethnikoi.org/iran.html

mo.mentum · Sep 13, 2008

You guys are so funny, these are stories from the boonies! Tiny villages with ignorant farmers who know nothing of Islam. They marry off their kids at a young age to lessen the burden on themselves to feed and clothe them. Has nothing to do with religion. You want to talk about molestation? What about the "Swiss dungeon father" fiasco. Wow.

Erfan777 · Sep 13, 2008

Muhammed marrying a 9 year old kid isn't child molestation?

mo.mentum · Sep 13, 2008

Oh ya this comes back toooo often. Let's try to put this one to rest. First of all, you cannot apply the rules of today to centuries ago. The idea of adolescence didn't come about until the industrial revolution. Before that, you were working on the fields and was considered an adult as soon as you got your first period, or your first couple of wet dreams. And you'd get married off soon thereafter. This has nothing to do with child molestation, its just the way things are. As for the 9 year old, yes he married her, doesn't mean he slept with her that night. So this thing you people keep accusing him, ya but today's standards is very strange, but put yourself in anthropoligical academic perspective, and you'll see that for that time, there was nothing odd about it and it was rampant thorughout the world. Again, marriage doesn't mean sex. Get over it.

Futuwwa · Sep 13, 2008

Luzeiro said:
Muslims say that Mary, the mother of Jesus is the sister of Moses, Miriam.

Then she brought the child to her folk carrying him; and they said, 'Mary, thou hast surely committed a monstrous thing! Sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother a woman unchaste.' S. 19:27-28
And Mary, Imran's daughter, who guarded her virginity, so We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and she confirmed the Words of her Lord and His Books, and became one of the obedient. S. 66:12

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/sister_of_aaron.htm

It's entertaining, really.

That polemic is as old as Islam, even Muhammed was faced with it and answered it. LOL, nothing new under the sun.

Erfan777 · Sep 13, 2008

mo.mentum said:
Oh ya this comes back toooo often. Let's try to put this one to rest. First of all, you cannot apply the rules of today to centuries ago. The idea of adolescence didn't come about until the industrial revolution. Before that, you were working on the fields and was considered an adult as soon as you got your first period, or your first couple of wet dreams. And you'd get married off soon thereafter. This has nothing to do with child molestation, its just the way things are. As for the 9 year old, yes he married her, doesn't mean he slept with her that night. So this thing you people keep accusing him, ya but today's standards is very strange, but put yourself in anthropoligical academic perspective, and you'll see that for that time, there was nothing odd about it and it was rampant thorughout the world. Again, marriage doesn't mean sex. Get over it.

So, you mean today's rules and standards are all wrong, and to marry a girl of 9 year old is okay? So, it means you can marry a 9 year old if you want and it has nothing to do with being a dirty paedophile?

Oh, who says marriage doesn't mean sex according to Islam. Here is what Islam says about marriage dude:

Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 81:

Narrated 'Uqba:

[FONT=&quot]The Prophet said: "The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract)." [/FONT]

français · Sep 13, 2008

mo.mentum said:
Oh ya this comes back toooo often. Let's try to put this one to rest. First of all, you cannot apply the rules of today to centuries ago. The idea of adolescence didn't come about until the industrial revolution. Before that, you were working on the fields and was considered an adult as soon as you got your first period, or your first couple of wet dreams. And you'd get married off soon thereafter. This has nothing to do with child molestation, its just the way things are. As for the 9 year old, yes he married her, doesn't mean he slept with her that night. So this thing you people keep accusing him, ya but today's standards is very strange, but put yourself in anthropoligical academic perspective, and you'll see that for that time, there was nothing odd about it and it was rampant thorughout the world. Again, marriage doesn't mean sex. Get over it.

En effet!!

This is a great post. I am majoring in Sociologie at L'Université du Québec à Montréal and one thing we learn is that we have to look at societal implications first and foremost to understand why something was done, and how it could be different back then, and what sort of implications there were back then, to see if they add up to today's. What I have gathered from all this, is that we shouldn't call Muhammad a nasty, terrible pedophile, because looking at the implications, it just isn't the case!

Anyways, I see that you live in Montréal...

Vive le Québec! I am from Lévis but I now reside in Montréal near Université Concordia, on Rue Guy, though I go to UQAM.

mo.mentum · Sep 13, 2008

Et bien merci pour ton soutien

Secundulus · Sep 13, 2008

français;48580403 said:
En effet!!

This is a great post. I am majoring in Sociologie at L'Université du Québec à Montréal and one thing we learn is that we have to look at societal implications first and foremost to understand why something was done, and how it could be different back then, and what sort of implications there were back then, to see if they add up to today's. What I have gathered from all this, is that we shouldn't call Muhammad a nasty, terrible pedophile, because looking at the implications, it just isn't the case!

Anyways, I see that you live in Montréal... Vive le Québec! I am from Lévis but I now reside in Montréal near Université Concordia, on Rue Guy, though I go to UQAM.

So, do you then agree that the marriage of nine year olds to grown adult men remains a valid practice today?

This continues to be the reality of a nine year old girl's life in many Islamic countries today.

It continues to be the reality because, Muhammed did it, so it must be right. This is not my opinion but rather the ruling of Islamic clerics.

français · Sep 14, 2008

Secundulus said:
So, do you then agree that the marriage of nine year olds to grown adult men remains a valid practice today?

This continues to be the reality of a nine year old girl's life in many Islamic countries today.

It continues to be the reality because, Muhammed did it, so it must be right. This is not my opinion but rather the ruling of Islamic clerics.

Is it a valid practice today? - It depends on certain implications.

Continues to be the reality of a nine year old girl's life in many Islamic countries - Get real. There are *very* few marriages at such an age in Islamic countries. They are *extremely* rare. They happen sometimes, but not often.

Certainly not as much as pedophilia in the USA... Children getting molested and raped and tortured all the time in USA. Does this mean it is a biblical practice?

Also, rape is mentioned(and justified) in Bible in certain cases. Is rape ok now?

Luzeiro · Sep 15, 2008

Futuwwa said:
That polemic is as old as Islam, even Muhammed was faced with it and answered it. LOL, nothing new under the sun.

Oh, it was true and then it was not true?

Luzeiro · Sep 15, 2008

PassionFruit said:
Dude, are you serious!!! LOL!
There's not even a consensus about the age Aisha among Muslims.

That's graphic.

Consensus among muslims? And please don't come back and say the same exists among Christians. A muslim is a muslim and cannot call himself anything else. But a person can call himself Christian without a clue of what that is. Remember that.

français · Sep 15, 2008

Luzeiro - Ever heard about the story of the Midianites and the children being taken as slaves? (30,000 of them.) Why you think they were kept as slaves?

dnihila · Sep 15, 2008

Jefell said:
Any validity to this statement?

** Muslims were notoriously free with their manuscripts. When it came time to assemble the Qu'ran from the surahs believed to have been written by Mohammed, they destroyed all of those that they didn't like, claiming that they were "Satanic verses" and that Satan had provoked Mohammed to write them.

Thus when Salmon Rushdie published his famous book, The Satanic Verses, it was a direct allusion to these destroyed surahs. This explains the fatwah (sentence of death) placed upon him by the imams. ***

With Love,
- Jefell

- GETSHOOK -

6.The Cattle:
112-And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.
.42. Councel, Consultation
52-And thus We have revealed to you an inspiration of Our command. You did not know what is the Book or [what is] faith, but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, [O Muhammad], you guide to a straight path
.43. Ornaments Of Gold, Luxury
36-And whoever is blinded from remembrance of the Most Merciful - We appoint for him a devil, and he is to him a companion.
.46. The Wind-curved Sandhills, The Dunes
8-Or do they say, "He has invented it?" Say, "If I have invented it, you will not possess for me [the power of protection] from Allah at all. He is most knowing of that in which you are involved. Sufficient is He as Witness between me and you, and He is the Forgiving the Merciful."
10-Say, "Have you considered: if the Quran was from Allah, and you disbelieved in it while a witness from the Children of Israel has testified to something similar and believed while you were arrogant...?" Indeed, Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.
12-And before it was the scripture of Moses to lead and as a mercy. And this is a confirming Book in an Arabic tongue to warn those who have wronged and as good tidings to the doers of good.
30-They said, "O our people, indeed we have heard a [recited] Book revealed after Moses confirming what was before it which guides to the truth and to a straight path.
73-O you who have believed, be not like those who abused Moses; then Allah cleared him of what they said. And he, in the sight of Allah, was distinguished.
To Be Continued.

yaqovzadeek · Sep 17, 2008

Jefell said:
"According to the novel, Muhammad was tricked into revealing these verses as part of the Qur'an by Satan and he later retracted them, saying the angel Jibreel had told him to do so. The verses allow for prayers of intercession to be made to three Pagan Meccan goddesses: Allat, Uzza, and Manah. The part of the story that deals with the "satanic verses" in the book was based on the accounts of the historians al-Waqidi and al-Tabari."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses

This makes sense also because allah was a collection of false gods that muhammad put together and called one god.. the verses allowing for prayers to the pagan meccan goddesses were probably first written to appease the pagans.. then someone realized the implications of obvious idolatry...

also, since he was provoked by satan to write those verses, proves that Mohammed was a false prophet.

The only truth that remains untarnished: Jesus Christ / YSHWH.

With Love,
- Jefell

- GETSHOOK -

This is actually not true, there were no such thing as the Satanic verses, since the prophet mohamed never compromised with any of the non muslims.
first example is the revelation of thte chapter [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]oon.Where the Pagans of makkah wanted the prophet of Islam to allow them one year to follow Islamic teachings and the next year the muslims were to follow the pagan traditions. If the prophet had agreed then he would have Oked it.however in return to the pagans request the prophet answered with the the chapter revealed to Him:
1. Say "O Al-Kâfirûn (disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islâmic Monotheism).

Clear and straight to the point.the prophet of islam refused in any way to compromise with the pagans so for him to utter any verse what so ever in praise of any pagan Gods is a falsehood.
Second thing is that shatain nor anybody else had no power whatsoever to interfere with the revelation of the quran.Allah says in the quran: 69:
44. And if he (Muhammad SAW) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allâh )
45. We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might),
46. And then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta),
47. And none of you could withhold Us from (punishing) him.

So it is clear not even the prophet (pbuh) had the power to aletr anything revealed in the Quran, let alone satan.
thje quran goes on to certify that the prophet (pbuh) could not have changed anything in the Quran, 10:
15. And when Our Clear Verses are recited unto them, those who hope not for their meeting with Us, say: Bring us a Qur'ân other than this, or change it."Say (O Muhammad SAW): "It is not for me to change it on my own accord; I only follow that which is revealed unto me. Verily, I fear if I were to disobey my Lord, the torment of the Great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."

so for anyone to make any interpolation in the quran is absolutely impossible.Now to say that satan interfered and added verses is another lie because Allah certifies in the Quran concerning the Quran that 40:
42. Falsehood cannot come to it from before it or behind it (it is) sent down by the All-Wise, Worthy of all praise (Allâh)
So if falsehood cannot come to the quran from anyweher whatsoever then wheer did this lie about satan interefring come from? allah makes it clear inmany palces in the quran that he has protecte the quran from any interference or interpolation and the quran warns of grave consequences if the prophet or anybody else attampted to do so. So to say that the prophet of his own accord accepted what Satan said and read these verses is a great lie.
Not because the bible claims satan tempted Jesus that means Christians have to invent a lie about the prophet Mohamed(pbuh).
another point is that God is all knowing all wise and unlike the imperfect, uncapable christian God Allah has all the power in the world. He promises to protect the quran as seen in verse above. and would never let satan interfere in his revelation.Those who invented this lie wanted to depict Allah as the same useless god they claim to beleive in who was unable to save his son while heas dying on the cross and forsook him. Allah is tyhe almighty power, all knowing all wise who has all the power over satan.
Besides the prophet(pbuh) never in his 63 years of life utter a single statement of kuffr and shirk. that would have been contrary to his strictly monotheistic teachings and beleif, and besides Allah would never forgive shirk.
So this satanic verses issue is a lie and never existed. and contradicts totally the ones who actullay invented this lie..
Peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the just

yaqovzadeek · Sep 17, 2008

Luzeiro said:
Muslims say that Mary, the mother of Jesus is the sister of Moses, Miriam.

Then she brought the child to her folk carrying him; and they said, 'Mary, thou hast surely committed a monstrous thing! Sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother a woman unchaste.' S. 19:27-28
And Mary, Imran's daughter, who guarded her virginity, so We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and she confirmed the Words of her Lord and His Books, and became one of the obedient. S. 66:12

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/sister_of_aaron.htm

It's entertaining, really.

Where on earth did you get that from? wow we can see how much of Islam this one knows.

The bible says that Zachariah's wife was barren and that god gave them a son miraculously (john the baptist) but the bible also says Zachariah's son was called iddo
1 Chronicles 27:21 Of the half tribe of Manasseh in Gilead, Iddo the son of Zechariah: of Benjamin, Jaasiel the son of Abner:
The bible says he had a daughter too, how could it be his wife was barren

2 Chronicles 29:1 Hezekiah began to reign when he was five and twenty years old, and he reigned nine and twenty years in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Abijah, the daughter of Zechariah.

then the Bible contradicts itself and says Zechariah was the son of iddo.

Ezra 5:1 Then the prophets, Haggai the prophet, and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied unto the Jews that were in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, even unto them.Ezra 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo.

so is the bible getting its facts wrong as fr who was zechariah and who was his son and whether his wife was barren or not.
Now he's the son of jonathan:

Nehemiah 12:35 And certain of the priests’ sons with trumpets; namely, Zechariah the son of Jonathan, the son of Shemaiah, the son of Mattaniah, the son of Michaiah, the son of Zaccur, the son of Asaph:

and also:

Isaiah 8:2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.

2 Kings 18:2 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah.

Does that mean the bible is not aware of who was the father of john the baptist
and whether his wife was baren or not.
Now this is very entertaining
peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka james the just

FrederickM · Sep 17, 2008

No.
One reason why the doctrine/interpretation of al-Quran is more in co ordination in Islam than Christians are with doctrine/interpretation is because, al-Quran clearly states. 'There cannot be any addition/modification/improvement on the Quran for it is the most perfect holy scripture from God' - Quranic doctrine

Secundulus · Sep 17, 2008

yaqovzadeek said:
Where on earth did you get that from? wow we can see how much of Islam this one knows.

The bible says that Zachariah's wife was barren and that god gave them a son miraculously (john the baptist) but the bible also says Zachariah's son was called iddo
1 Chronicles 27:21 Of the half tribe of Manasseh in Gilead, Iddo the son of Zechariah: of Benjamin, Jaasiel the son of Abner:
The bible says he had a daughter too, how could it be his wife was barren

2 Chronicles 29:1 Hezekiah began to reign when he was five and twenty years old, and he reigned nine and twenty years in Jerusalem. And his mothers name was Abijah, the daughter of Zechariah.

then the Bible contradicts itself and says Zechariah was the son of iddo.

That is a different Zechariah than the father of John the Baptist. This is proven by the fact that Chronicles was written hundreds of years before John the Baptist.

Now this is very entertaining

Yes, it is.

yaqovzadeek · Sep 18, 2008

Secundulus said:
That is a different Zechariah than the father of John the Baptist. This is proven by the fact that Chronicles was written hundreds of years before John the Baptist.

Yes, it is.

Exactly there is nowhere in the Quran that it says Sister of Moses, it says sister of Aaron, just like there could have been loads of Zechariah mentioned in the Bible there was also other Aarons too.
however there is still an inconsistancy you chose to leave out and not explain, in 1 Chronicles 27:21 Of the half tribe of Manasseh in Gilead, Iddo the son of Zechariah: of Benjamin, Jaasiel the son of Abner:

however in Ezra 5:1 Then the prophets, Haggai the prophet, and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied unto the Jews that were in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, even unto them.Ezra 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo.
Now try and wiggle your way out of this paper bag. does God not know who was the father and who was the son? One moment Zechariah is the father, the next moment he is his sons son.What a mess.
Peace
yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

Secundulus · Sep 18, 2008

yaqovzadeek said:
Exactly there is nowhere in the Quran that it says Sister of Moses, it says sister of Aaron, just like there could have been loads of Zechariah mentioned in the Bible there was also other Aarons too.
however there is still an inconsistancy you chose to leave out and not explain, in 1 Chronicles 27:21 Of the half tribe of Manasseh in Gilead, Iddo the son of Zechariah: of Benjamin, Jaasiel the son of Abner:

however in Ezra 5:1 Then the prophets, Haggai the prophet, and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied unto the Jews that were in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, even unto them.Ezra 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo.
Now try and wiggle your way out of this paper bag. does God not know who was the father and who was the son? One moment Zechariah is the father, the next moment he is his sons son.What a mess.
Peace
yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

Again, the tesxt is speaking of different people. The sentence is Chronicles is speaking of the time of David. The sentence in Ezra is speaking of the rebuilding of the Temple following the Babylonian exile. There is a difference of about 500 years.

ZECHARIAH, ZACHARIAH, ZACHARIAS. Some 28 men bear this name in the Bible, most of them mentioned only once or twice,

Satan provoked Mohammed?

Member

[One God]

deleted123

[One God]

Well-Known Member

deleted123

Atheist/CA-Bloc Québécois/US-Democrat

[One God]

Well-Known Member

Atheist/CA-Bloc Québécois/US-Democrat

Member

Member

Atheist/CA-Bloc Québécois/US-Democrat

Senior Member

Veteran

Veteran

Servant of God

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Similar threads