I might be jumping to conclusions here a little but that's because i don't know anything about jews in the sense of their belief. Anyway, i was wondering what do the jews have to say about salvation?
Are Jews saved?
- Thread starter Sharky
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Hmm..good question. I would say in terms of being saved, romans chapters 9 to about 11 talk about this. Coming to the conclusion that all Israel will be saved. (11:26).
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Thank you for this good question sharky and the verse outspoken...
It says that Israel will be saved. But does this mean all Jews or the people in Israel? Im not sure if that makes sense...
God bless
a4c
It says that Israel will be saved. But does this mean all Jews or the people in Israel? Im not sure if that makes sense...
God bless
a4c
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" But does this mean all Jews or the people in Israel? Im not sure if that makes sense..."
Great follow up question, for that we must look to another passage on what it means to be a "real jew".
I would say paul also explains that in romans prior to his talking about all Israel being saved. Check chapter 2 ..verse 28 and 29 answer it for me
Great follow up question, for that we must look to another passage on what it means to be a "real jew".
I would say paul also explains that in romans prior to his talking about all Israel being saved. Check chapter 2 ..verse 28 and 29 answer it for me
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Rom. 2:28-29:
"For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true cirumcision something external and physical. Rather, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of heart - it is spiritual and not literal. Such a person recieves praise not from others but from God."
Wow thank you for this verse and yes it does answer who are REAL Jews - a question Ive had for quite a while now!
God bless
a4c
"For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true cirumcision something external and physical. Rather, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of heart - it is spiritual and not literal. Such a person recieves praise not from others but from God."
Wow thank you for this verse and yes it does answer who are REAL Jews - a question Ive had for quite a while now!
God bless
a4c
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DaveKerwin
Represent the Most High
I can say this for sure, the only way to heaven is Jesus Christ. Anyone without Jesus is without life now, and without life for all eternity.
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I believe that we all have to live the truth as we know it. That changes, sometimes we understand something better or encounter more truth and everybody has different levels of truth at any given time. Sometimes, for whatever reason God may will some to know more and some to be more blinded for his will and his plan to be played out.
Therefore, in my mind the only thing we can do is live the truth as we know it, keep our minds open to better, intelligent understanding, pray for those who don't believe and practice what we preach so we can be a light to others.
The long and the short of it is that if a Jew knows that Christ is God or even thinks that he may be and doesn't follow him or investigate further than I think he can't be saved. If a Jew or a Muslim has never heard of or encountered Christ in any meaningful way and feels no reason to believe, then I think he can be saved if he follows the good things he knows to do in his life dictated by his conscience. I can't believe that every Jew, Native, Muslim, Chinese, Japanese, etc. cannot be saved at all because they didn't grow up in a country where it is easy to become or have knowledge of Christianity.
I asked someone special "What is the fate of the Jews," and he told me that we can't limit God by saying that he cannot save a Jew. Baptism and Christianity is our means to salvation, but like the thief on the cross who most likely was not baptised, etc., God can make exceptions. The point is we cannot judge anyone because we don't know their motivating factors to believing what they do.
"The Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses; they sin and are judged by the Law. For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands. The Gentiles do not have the Law; but whenever they do by instinct what the Law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not have the Law. Their conduct shows that what the Law commands is written in their hearts. Their consciences also show that this is true, since their thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them. And so, according to the Godd News I preach, this is how it will be on that Day when God through Jesus Christ will judge the secret thoughts of all. Romans 2:12-16
Thanks and Hello!
Theresa
Therefore, in my mind the only thing we can do is live the truth as we know it, keep our minds open to better, intelligent understanding, pray for those who don't believe and practice what we preach so we can be a light to others.
The long and the short of it is that if a Jew knows that Christ is God or even thinks that he may be and doesn't follow him or investigate further than I think he can't be saved. If a Jew or a Muslim has never heard of or encountered Christ in any meaningful way and feels no reason to believe, then I think he can be saved if he follows the good things he knows to do in his life dictated by his conscience. I can't believe that every Jew, Native, Muslim, Chinese, Japanese, etc. cannot be saved at all because they didn't grow up in a country where it is easy to become or have knowledge of Christianity.
I asked someone special "What is the fate of the Jews," and he told me that we can't limit God by saying that he cannot save a Jew. Baptism and Christianity is our means to salvation, but like the thief on the cross who most likely was not baptised, etc., God can make exceptions. The point is we cannot judge anyone because we don't know their motivating factors to believing what they do.
"The Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses; they sin and are judged by the Law. For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands. The Gentiles do not have the Law; but whenever they do by instinct what the Law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not have the Law. Their conduct shows that what the Law commands is written in their hearts. Their consciences also show that this is true, since their thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them. And so, according to the Godd News I preach, this is how it will be on that Day when God through Jesus Christ will judge the secret thoughts of all. Romans 2:12-16
Thanks and Hello!
Theresa
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"
I can say this for sure, the only way to heaven is Jesus Christ. Anyone without Jesus is without life now, and without life for all eternity.
"
Or if you're a true jew. That's exactly what Paul was talking about
I can say this for sure, the only way to heaven is Jesus Christ. Anyone without Jesus is without life now, and without life for all eternity.
"
Or if you're a true jew. That's exactly what Paul was talking about
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Hi Theresa,
Welcome!
A couple of points. from the rest of your post.
I am assuming that by "Christianity" in the above sentence you mean something to the effect of "the acceptance through faith of God's gift of forgiveness that was achieved through Christ's payment for our sins."
The thief on the cross is not an exception he is an example of the rule. Faith alone. Abraham was saved by faith, David was saved by faith, Roman's clearly talks that you are saved by faith. In Act's chapter 10, Cornelius received the baptism of the Holy spirit (meaning he was saved) then got baptized. Baptism is always shown as a result of salvation in obedience to the command not as a cause of salvation.
There are a number of threads on this board that have discussed this and I would encourage you to look at them as I do not want to side track the main issue in this one.
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Reformationist
Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
God is no respector of person's, nor of what a person does or doesn't do. The issue here isn't that the thief on the Cross wasn't baptised. It's that our act of baptism isn't what God uses to save. Baptism is an expression of our faith in God because He saved us, not a means by which to obtain salvation. Our salvation is by God's grace. So, whether or not someone grows up in a place where being involved in Christianity is less popular makes no difference. People in other countries are saved in the exact same way people in this country are saved, and in the exact same way people from 3000 years ago were saved. It was by the grace of God that He gave us the faith to believe from a heart that He regenerated. It's His work, not ours.
God bless
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What does the Apostle John tell us?
And what does James tell us?
It's been my contention all along that Torah-obedience is the method by which we accept Yeshua's sacrifice for our sins. In other words, there is no such thing as "having faith in Yeshua" without being faithful ourselves to His commandments.
Now, rather than debate whether or not I am correct in what I've said above, consider this:
*If* I'm correct in saying that it through obedience to His Torah commandments that we place our faith in Him, then what does this tell us about the Jews?
Shimon
And what does James tell us?
It's been my contention all along that Torah-obedience is the method by which we accept Yeshua's sacrifice for our sins. In other words, there is no such thing as "having faith in Yeshua" without being faithful ourselves to His commandments.
Now, rather than debate whether or not I am correct in what I've said above, consider this:
*If* I'm correct in saying that it through obedience to His Torah commandments that we place our faith in Him, then what does this tell us about the Jews?
Shimon
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Evangelion
<b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>
The Jews who are without Christ at the present time, will have their hearts turned to him at the Second Advent.
On this basis, they will then be saved.
On this basis, they will then be saved.
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"God is no respector of person's, nor of what a person does or doesn't do. "
amen!
Shimon, you have to understand, those statements are to be taken in context. It is NOT works that save, for it is God who prepared then for you before you were saved. it is by faith through grace we are saved. That's all it takes. Works are a natural expresson of that faith. If you aren't doing works, then something is wrong, that doesn't mean your faith is dead, it means you need to take a look at yourself and find out what is hindering you as Paul tells us in romans 6.
"then what does this tell us about the Jews?"
romans 9 through 11 The problem is that it is not JUST obedience that gets you in the door, as Paul clearly states in romans.
amen!
Shimon, you have to understand, those statements are to be taken in context. It is NOT works that save, for it is God who prepared then for you before you were saved. it is by faith through grace we are saved. That's all it takes. Works are a natural expresson of that faith. If you aren't doing works, then something is wrong, that doesn't mean your faith is dead, it means you need to take a look at yourself and find out what is hindering you as Paul tells us in romans 6.
"then what does this tell us about the Jews?"
romans 9 through 11
The problem is that it is not JUST obedience that gets you in the door, as Paul clearly states in romans.
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Outspoken:
Do you realize how badly you contradicted James?
You said:
While James said:
You said:
While James said:
There is no such thing as "faith" without obedience to God's commandments. That is false and very dangerous doctrine. It is through our obedience that we accept his salvation.
You're twisting Paul's words.
Paul said:
Faith is a *verb* in Hebrew but a noun in English. One *must* read the Hebrew scriptures from a Hebrew perspective.
Shimon
Do you realize how badly you contradicted James?
You said:
While James said:
You said:
While James said:
There is no such thing as "faith" without obedience to God's commandments. That is false and very dangerous doctrine. It is through our obedience that we accept his salvation.
You're twisting Paul's words.
Paul said:
Faith is a *verb* in Hebrew but a noun in English. One *must* read the Hebrew scriptures from a Hebrew perspective.
Shimon
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AMEN
It's as if you take one verse of the Bible and use it to denounce the rest of the Bible. Paul was talking to hypocrytical Jews because they followed the Mosaic law to it's very extent and yet they didn't live the truth of that same law. Abraham and Lazarus are an example of such a thing. Lazarus was a poor man on the street, and Abraham passed him everyday and didn't help him although he probably obeyed and practiced every law of Moses. Many Jews of that time were hypocrites!!! Jesus calls them that and yet he says,
"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you certainly will not enter the Kingdom of heaven."
One who doesn't practice the law they preach is a hypocrite and God is not fond of those. I'm getting tired of copying out all this Scripture because you never read it anyway. I'll finish with this, Paul was telling the Jews that they can't be saved by obeying the Law only, and James was saying that you can't claim faith if you don't obey that same faith so therefore they correspond with each other and each are necessary. You can't go to heaven with works alone, you can't go to heaven with faith alone, hence faith and works are necessary for salvation.
Thanx, Luv
Theresa
It's as if you take one verse of the Bible and use it to denounce the rest of the Bible. Paul was talking to hypocrytical Jews because they followed the Mosaic law to it's very extent and yet they didn't live the truth of that same law. Abraham and Lazarus are an example of such a thing. Lazarus was a poor man on the street, and Abraham passed him everyday and didn't help him although he probably obeyed and practiced every law of Moses. Many Jews of that time were hypocrites!!! Jesus calls them that and yet he says,
"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you certainly will not enter the Kingdom of heaven."
One who doesn't practice the law they preach is a hypocrite and God is not fond of those. I'm getting tired of copying out all this Scripture because you never read it anyway. I'll finish with this, Paul was telling the Jews that they can't be saved by obeying the Law only, and James was saying that you can't claim faith if you don't obey that same faith so therefore they correspond with each other and each are necessary. You can't go to heaven with works alone, you can't go to heaven with faith alone, hence faith and works are necessary for salvation.
Thanx, Luv
Theresa
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Exactly!
One must hold to the testimony of Yeshua *AND* obey His commandments. One must do both, not just one.
Shimon
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"While James said:"
Context. I haven't contradicted james at all, and you would see that if you read the first chapter.
"There is no such thing as "faith" without obedience to God's commandments"
okay, Please list for me the works the man on the cross beside Christ did. No but or explainations, just list them. Thanks
"Faith is a *verb* in Hebrew but a noun in English. One *must* read the Hebrew scriptures from a Hebrew perspective."
Umm..the NT is greek and written from both a hebrew and a gentile perspective, romans, most notable, is written from an expressly GENTILE perspective thanks It only takes faith, that's what the bible says and that's what our savior himself said just read John chapter 3.
Context. I haven't contradicted james at all, and you would see that if you read the first chapter.
"There is no such thing as "faith" without obedience to God's commandments"
okay, Please list for me the works the man on the cross beside Christ did. No but or explainations, just list them. Thanks
"Faith is a *verb* in Hebrew but a noun in English. One *must* read the Hebrew scriptures from a Hebrew perspective."
Umm..the NT is greek and written from both a hebrew and a gentile perspective, romans, most notable, is written from an expressly GENTILE perspective thanks
It only takes faith, that's what the bible says and that's what our savior himself said just read John chapter 3.
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