Manipulative Christianese

Elijah2 said:

90% you didn't include me wife----Joke!

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

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Floatingaxe said:

That's scriptural, though.

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When you recognize that ALL you have belongs to God anyway, there is no need to be bound to thinking we are doing God a 'favor' by giving him what already is his anyway. You know it all belongs to him anyway, and he can have whatever you got cause it is his anyway.

God is looking at the heart and your attitude towards money. We are not bound by any percentages when giving.

If you want to give 10% to feel like you are paying God back, then that is fine.

I have come to the place where I realize that God is not even interested in our mere 10% cos I understand that the earth is his and the fullness thereof..that includes HIS money.

It is ALL his anyway, and anything I do with it I am doing for his Glory..that is what God is looking at.

We don't need to think we are paying God back what is his in exchange for blessings. We are under new covenant and loving God with all your heart will lead you to spend all you have for Kingdom business..and seeking his Kingdom first will automatically change your heart over time as to money and the purpose he gives it to you.....................ahh...too much to say on this topic.

So, yes give your 10%, I like to think 100% of mine is HIS anyway.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]A True Tithing[/FONT][/FONT]

of The True Tithe

By: Tony Kabatow





[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Note: Where Scriptures are not fully typed out in this writing, please read them in your Bible to follow the line of thought more clearly, and for your own careful scrutiny. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Let us open with a well-known Scripture; well-known, but maybe not so well understood... [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Malachi 3 : 7 - 8
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from Mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto ME, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed Me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed Thee? In tithes and offerings.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Take note, the Lord says, “Return unto Me, and I will return unto you.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] We see this statement also in another Scripture in the New Testament...[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]James 4 : 8 (even verses 1-10)
Here we see in this whole context of Scripture God’s heart toward us.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] “Draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to thee.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Before that in verse 7, it says, “Submit yourselves therefore to God.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] And again in verse 10 it says, “Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord, and He [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]shall lift you up”.

Now, just for a moment, let me draw your attention to the simple fact that there is nothing said of “tithing” (giving 10 percent of our wages) in order to “draw closer to God” - in these New Testament Scriptures. In fact, I challenge you to find in any of Paul‘s, or any one else’s writings, in the New Testament, where they either rebuke the people for not tithing, or praise them for tithing. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] You cannot find where Paul ever said that they were either struggling or succeeding (spiritually or financially), because of their failure to tithe or because of their loyalty to tithe. Nowhere do you see this idea communicated to the people that they were not “drawing closer to God” because of their failure to give 10% of their finances to some church or ministry. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif](Let us also take note that what Jesus had to say to the Pharisees about tithing in Mathew 23 : 23 was technically under the Old Testament. He was also just confronting them on their own level of self righteousness and hypocritical religious attitudes.)
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]And yet, in all true spiritual honesty, and according to these Scriptures, we must “return to Him” and “draw nigh to Him”. This we truly believe and desire to do “in Spirit and in Truth”.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]In all of these preceding Scriptures (Old Testament and New), God would have us see the Love and Zeal of His heart toward us in truly “winning us” from the world. This is what the “more Grace” is for (James 4:6). [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Yes, He has BOUGHT us (by the Blood of Jesus), He has every right to us...but has He won our hearts, our affections, our unreserved submission and obedience...by a true revelation of His Love, a Divinely inspired choice, and a willingness in the offering up of ourselves to Him?!
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It all comes by His Grace...the Revelation, the choice and the willingness. He is the “Author and Finisher” of us truly “returning to Him”. But have we resisted His Grace by our carnal interpretation of Scripture, so that they fit our wordly and temporal lifestyles? [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Paul expressed this “Grace of Giving” quite simply in II Corin. 8 : 5...[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] “And this they did, not as we hoped, BUT FIRST GAVE THEIR OWN SELVES TO THE LORD, and unto us by the will of God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] There is a higher working of “Grace”, and a working of grace in our lives which is more specifically and perfectly to the fulfilling of Gods’ will. The intent and desire of His heart; the very purpose and goal of His Loving and redeeming us...... And is it not that we would be truly and completely “subdued unto Him,” sincerely and genuinely “reconciled unto Him,” in the transformation of our character and the effectiveness of our service? Surely, it is. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] We see all through the Old Testament Gods’ dissatisfaction with sacrifices, offerings and rituals that were given SEPARATE FROM the true humility, submission and loyalty of the peoples’ hearts. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Psalm 51: 15 - 17
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“O Lord, open Thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth Thy praise.
For Thou desirest not sacrifice; else I would give it; Thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Isaiah 57: 15
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]How awesome that the “high and lofty One” Who “inhabits eternity”, Who “dwells in the high and holy place” - would see fit, would be fully satisfied, could truly be Who He is... “with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit...”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Isaiah 66: 1 - 2
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool: where is the house that ye build unto Me? And where is the place of My rest?
For all those things hath Mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at My Word.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Here in this power-packed portion of Scripture we see God making a clear and definite SEPARATION: between the “temporal and the eternal”, between the “important and the not so important,” between where He finds His ultimate delight and rest - and where He does not.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Nothing of this temporal creation fully satisfies God, but the eternal qualities and potentials of a “poor and contrite spirit.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] It is only that which is born of Him, which had its origin in Him...in its' coming back to Him...in its' returning to Him...that can fully satisfy the heart of God. And that is US - who were in Him, written in the Book, before the foundation of the world. (Luke 10 : 17 - 23 Rev. 17 : 8)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] May God give us a clear understanding - a revelation of His purposes and His ways, that we would see the difference between “the precious and the vile”, the true and the false, the temporal and the eternal - and in that Revelation truly draw nigh to Him and worship Him “in Spirit and in Truth.”

We see an interesting Scripture in Luke 20 : 21 - 25 which may give us further revelation of the priorities and purposes of God. Even how God would separate the financial realm of this world from a true worship and a TRUE RETURNING TO HIM. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Notice: the image and inscription of Caesar was upon the coin, therefore Jesus declared that the coin belongs to Caesar. BUT whose “image and inscription” was upon the spies who tried to trick Jesus with this question? Yes, it was God’s image which was upon them (we are created in His image), AND THEY RIGHTFULLY BELONGED TO GOD. (We are “robbing God” when we hold back that which He paid for and rightfully owns...US.) [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] This brings us back to our original Scripture reading in Malachi 3 : 7.
After God had said, “Return unto Me, and I will return unto you,” the people replied, “wherein (or, in what way, how exactly) shall we return?”
Good question. And this is precisely the question that God proceeds to answer...[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Verse 8, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed Me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed Thee? In tithes and offerings.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Now let us look at this closely. God has expressed that they - the people - are to return unto Him and they respond with “HOW shall WE return?” In what way, how exactly, wherein would WE be truly “returning unto Thee?”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] And God answers that they - the people - (those in His image) are to return unto Him “in tithes and offerings” (In the Revelation of belonging to Him, and a genuine, voluntary surrender). [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The “Tithe” represents our “belonging” to God. The Tithe is His. He says in effect, “honor Me by giving Me what belongs to Me...YOU!” (Lev. 27:30)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Now really, has our COMING TO GOD, our Returning to Him, our Drawing Nigh to Him...been confined and defined within the giving of finances?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Is our “drawing nigh to God” proven and demonstrated in our giving a substance... a temporal substance, which really belongs to this worlds’ system? I think not. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Surely, it is seen and joyously understood that GIVING, financially, to the ministry, to the poor, and amongst ourselves - is an integral part of our Christian love and service; BUT, our Drawing Nigh to God and Honoring Him is established and proven in a much higher realm of Revelation and Order than finances.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] In the Light and Fulfillment of what the Old Testament ordinances were only a shadow of.. the true ORDER and REVELATION of Worshipping God is now fully realized in what is now His true House - the Body of Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] As we allow and depend upon the Holy Spirit to reveal to us the New Testament fulfillment of Old Testament patterns - we begin to see the True Order of Gods’ House, and what all of the carnal ordinances and services of the wordly “tabernacle” prophetically represented in the Eternal Glory of the Spiritual House of His many-membered Body.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] What is so needed, and what is so hard for the carnal mind to see, is the true vision and Revelation of the Body of Christ - as the Temple of God. The “Spiritual House” that we, as “living stones” are to be built up into FOR GODS’ ETERNAL INDWELLING. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] So important it is that we understand the spiritual interpretation of Old testament patterns, so that we can accurately do our part in the maturing and function of the true House of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Hebrews 9[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Hebrews 10 : 1 -14
We see in Heb. 9 : 11 that Christ is the High priest of a “more perfect Tabernacle”, “not of this building”... not of this earthly creation.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] All of the “ordinances of divine service”, the “carnal ordinances” of the wordly sanctuary were imposed on them until the time of the coming of the True Tabernacle - which was Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Hebrews 10 : 5 - 14
Verses 5 & 6
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and offering Thou wouldest not, But a BODY HAST THOU PREPARED ME;
In burnt offerings and sacrifice for sin Thou hast had no pleasure.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] God's ultimate desire and plan was to have a living BODY - birthed of Him; His very Word manifested in living vessels in which He could dwell and perfectly express Himself. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Jesus Christ was the first of such a “vessel.” He was the actual “House of God” in which dwelt the “fullness of the Godhead.”

And now WE are the “many mansions”, the “many dwellings” of that same body of Christ. We, as born-again sons and daughters of God, are the various “chambers” of His many-membered body. We are the various “storehouses” of His Spiritual Temple, His House.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Colossians 2 : 16 - 19
The Body of Christ is the very substance and fulfillment of every Old Testament foreshadowing construction and service of the wordly sanctuary. The furniture, the utensils, the vessels and rituals. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] We see in Colossians 2 : 19 the very process of life and true worship that God is now pleased with. This process of receiving from Christ's headship and nourishing one another is what brings maturity and the increase of God in our midst, the true building up of His House. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] The “perfect financial set-up”, the giving of a tithe of our money, does not contribute to this process of Eternal Life and maturity. This is NOT the “tithe” that God is interested in - in New Testament reality.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Actually the focusing of our giving a tithe of our finances to the various “houses of God” (church buildings) has hindered Gods’ people from seriously seeking to know and contribute their “effectual supply” of spiritual nourishment to the Body of Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] “Tithing” as generally taught throughout Christiandom, has promised a guarantee of financial success and freedom, making “life” more comfortable in this world. Yes, even that we may “love our life in this world”. Contrary to the true Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Scriptures. The Cross of Calvary denies such self-preservation. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]John 12 : 25, 26
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
If any man love Me, let him FOLLOW ME...”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] This was all spoken by Jesus in the context of the “son of man dying on the cross and then being glorified.” And Jesus says that if any man desires to truly serve Me and “be where I am” - let him follow Me in the sufferings and death of the Cross. “Fellowshipping His sufferings, being made conformable to His death.” (Philp. 3 : 10)

In the light of these perspectives, and as a foundation for new insight, let us be open to see what the “tithes and offerings” really are in the Spiritual House of God - His people. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Malachi 3 : 1 - 12
Tithes are the “first-fruits”, that which was to be understood as belonging to the Lord.
Offerings are freely given; sacrifices and gifts as a free-will expression of our worship to God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in Mine house...” Malachi 3 : 10[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Now in the wordly sanctuary of the Old Testament this “meat” was actually the meat of sacrificial animals (which foreshadowed the sacrifices and services of the body of Christ; including Jesus as the Lamb). “Meat” in the Old Testament was actually physical, tangible substances - either the fruit of the ground or sacrificial animals. But in the New Testament there is needed even a spiritual mindedness to understand the fulfillment of these “shadows”. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Jesus said, (Jn 4 : 4) “My meat is to do the will of Him that sent Me, and to finish His work.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Then He tells us in Jn. 6 : 27...”Labour not for the meat which perishes, but for the meat which endures unto everlasting life...”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] And we know from 1 Peter 1 : 23, 24 “that which endures unto everlasting life” is THE WORD OF GOD.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] We see also in Hebrews 5 : 12 - 14 that feeding upon the “meat” of Gods’ Word is what produces maturity and discernment and the understanding of God’s Will. .
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]And we see in the conclusion of Malachi that a true “returning” to the Lord will produce a true “discernment” in His people. (Malachi 3 : 18)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Now, pray tell, how does a “tithing of money” allow this type of meat to be readily available in the House of God? (“...that there may be meat in Mine house,” Mal. 3 : 10)
Do we think that we are to finance the maintenance of a church building, and the wages of a few ministers to teach us the “meat” of Gods’ Word?
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] I’m concerned that in all our giving we’ve had a sad shortage of spiritual “meat”, which is evident in part, in the lack of maturity and discernment in the lives of the people. The majority of the people are not sharing their “effectual measure” - to the building up of the Body. Once again, they have not caught the revelation, the Vision, of the true Spiritual House of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] There has not been a Tithing or an Offering OF THE PEOPLE. This is the true TITHE and OFFERING that pleases God and accomplishes His will...the Tithing and Offering of the people. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] There is to be an Order of Divine Service in the Spiritual House of God which encompasses the true Tithings and Offerings of the people. Giving to God, willingly, that which BELONGS to Him - ourselves. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] (The people coming to Him in the Revelation of BELONGING TO HIM, and in the true willingness of their hearts.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] When WE are “given” and “offered” to the Lord, and placed in His house, the Body of Christ, by the willingness of our hearts and the prophetic anointing of the Spirit - there will be MEAT in the House of God. There will be a SUBSTANCE, an “effectual working” and “nourishment” which we will have to offer and receive amongst ourselves. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Matthew 24 : 45
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom His Lord hath made ruler over His household, TO GIVE THEM MEAT IN DUE SEASON?”
Yes, so important it is that there be MEAT in Mine House, saith the Lord, that it is this very thing which prepares you for My return. Even now doth My Power and Coming clothe you with the Meat and Glory of My Word. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Proverbs 3 : 9
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Honor the Lord with thy SUBSTANCE, and with the FIRST FRUITS of all thine increase.”
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]A true understanding of Spiritual things certainly gives these Scriptures a whole new meaning.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]God is truly HONORED when we give of ourselves as a FIRSTFRUITS offering, and the spiritual SUBSTANCE of our lives. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] When we give ourselves to the Lord and to His Household - as that which BELONGS to Him; when we allow the Spirit of God to prophetically PLACE US and bring INCREASE to our spiritual growth - we will have an Eternal “substance” to offer the Body of Christ. Others can actually “feed upon us”...each cell of His body giving its’ life for the others. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Outside of this Vision of Gods’ true Spiritual House, and the proper Order of Divine Service - we cannot expect the “windows of the Heavens” to be opened for further Revelation (the fresh “meat” of His Word, the Hidden Manna, “spiritual blessing in heavenly places” Eph. 1 : 3).
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Outside of this Revelation of “seed time and harvest” within the growth process of Christ's body - we cannot expect God to “rebuke the devourer.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] The devourer is promised to be “rebuked for our sakes” when we are properly attending to the Seed of God's Word and the increase of our lives - IN HIS DIVINE WAY. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Mark 4 : 14
-many things can enter in to hinder and spoil, to frustrate and limit the intended fruitfulness of Gods’ Word. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] But a true Spiritual-mindedness will raise us up into higher levels of understanding, and into a divine “fertility” that does honor to true worship.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] As we guard our hearts with all diligence and cherish the precious seed of God's Word; as we wait upon God for the “rain” of His Spirit and the various ministries of His body...He will surely “rebuke the devourer” and guarantee the increase of a glorious harvest. (Mal. 3:11) [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] But how can we expect further increase, as individuals and corporately if we are not faithful to share the “firstfruits” of our increase? How can we expect the body of Christ to come unto the “full measure of the stature of Christ” if the divine Order of the true tithes and offerings are not understood and set in place within the Spiritual House of God?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Nehemiah 13 : 1 - 13
As God honored a certain structure and order of service in the earthly Temple, even now doth He honor the spiritual interpretation of what the Old Testament order represented and foreshadowed. (Lest the House of God be “forsaken.&#8221
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] In these wonderful portions of Scripture we see a few aspects of the divine order of service within the restored conditions of the Temple of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] First of all in Nehemiah 12 : 43 - 47 we see a beautiful picture of order and service amongst the ministry as well as the common people.
-there was “great sacrifices” and “great joy” amongst the people.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Verse 44 “And at that time were some appointed over the chambers for the treasuries, for the offerings, for the firstfruits, and for the tithes, to gather into them out of the fields of the cities the portions of the law for the priest and Levites...”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Verse 47 “And all Israel in the days of Zerubbabel, and in the days of Nehemiah, gave the portions of the singers and the porters, every day his portion: and they sanctified holy things unto the Levites; and the Levites sanctified them unto the children of Aaron.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Such a glorious foreshadowing picture of order and service within the Spiritual Temple of God to come. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Nehemiah 13 : 1 - 13
In this portion of Scripture we see some necessary...
- conditions
- preparations
- anointed oversight
- corrections
- cleansings
- a setting in place...
of the various VESSELS and CHAMBERS of ministry. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] First of all, the ministry (5-fold ministry) needs to be RECOGNIZED and HONORED as the TITHE - given of the Lord - to the Body of Christ.
A Tithing of ministry prophetically placed and recognized, and honored as a firstfruits SUBSTANCE to be “eaten and consumed.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Within the Body of Christ is an elect group, a called and chosen group - who have GIVEN themselves to the service of God. Those who have been “separated unto God” from the womb, and who have been preserved in that SEPARATION in the “election and calling” of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The very “RETURNING” of us to this Revelation of Election, and the foreordained choosing of God...gives us a Discernment, and a genuine fear of His Name. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Malachi 1 : 1 - 3 & 3 : 16 - 18 & 4 : 2
Notice how the book of Malachi begins and ends...
It begins with a Revelation of God's choosing & Election (1 : 1 - 3).
It ends with an admonition to the true Fear of the Lord (3 : 16), and with those “elected ones” who “fear the Lord's Name” exercising a true Discernment - of the Lords’ body, as well as the wicked. (3 : 18)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Outside of this TRUE WORSHIP, all of the services, rituals and activities within today’s “Churchianity” are futile and meaningless. They are still just “carnal ordinances” of a physical temple, very sad to say.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] There is an Order of God which CANNOT BE AVOIDED, especially in this time of “post-captivity” when God's people are being called and gathered OUT of all man-made denominationalism and religiosity; called OUT of Babylonian mixture and deception...INTO the True Temple of God, His Body.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] There is an Order of God which is being CLEARLY REVEALED even as we’ve COME OUT into the wilderness where his Voice and Dealings are unhindered and definite. Where He doth deal with us “face to face”. Eze. 20 : 35[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] In Nehemiah 13 : 3 we see a necessary SEPARATION taking place in preparation for setting the Temple of God in order.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif](We must realize also that we’re no longer in the time of letting the “wheat and the tares grow together” Matt. 13 : 29, 30. But rather, we are fast approaching the time of Harvest - the maturity of the “wheat” - Christ's body, and the “tares” - the antiChrist. And God is beginning to “gather the wheat” into the perfecting, final touches of His Body. While the tares are being “bundled” into denominational and demonic systems of false unity...for their burning.)
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]We see this “cleansing separation” in Nehe. 13 : 30 ... "Thus cleansed I them from all strangers..."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] In Ezra 4 : 1 - 3 we see “false brethren”, undercover adversaries, creeping in with a pretense of assisting the building of the Temple. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Did the leaders of that day receive such “enthusiasm” and “charitable gestures”? Absolutely NOT! [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] They understood the Holiness, the Sacredness, of Gods’ purposes, and DISCERNED the “precious from the vile.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Ezekiel 44 : 5 - 7
“...mark well the entering in of the House, with every going forth of the sanctuary.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Ezekiel 44 : 15, 23, 24
Here we see the “Tithe” of the Priesthood - the sons of Zadok (the “tenth” of the ministry), who alone could come to God to minister to Him.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]They represented the “Elect” of God, called and chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Those whom God has reserved in the divine protection of Election... (Romans 9 : 11 - 24).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Those whom God has spared the defilement’s of spiritual harlotry, by the Blood of Predestination... (Romans 8 : 28 - 33)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]When this true Tithing of the ministry is IN PLACE - recognized and honored in the house of God - there is a Return to Discernment and Righteous Judgment. Without which, the nourishment, operation and maturity of the Body of Christ is a lost cause.
(Ezek. 44 : 23, 24)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] It is this divine “nourishment”, feeding upon the Tithe, which guarantees a true Development. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Isaiah 6 : 8 - 13 (Jere. 24 : 1 - 7 & Neh. 11 : 1)
“Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, And the Lord have removed men far away, and there shall be a great forsaking in the midst of the land. BUT YET IN IT SHALL BE A TENTH, AND IT SHALL RETURN, AND SHALL BE EATEN: AS A TEIL TREE, AND AS AN OAK, WHOSE SUBSTANCE IS IN THEM, WHEN THEY CAST THEIR LEAVES: SO THE HOLY SEED SHALL BE THE SUBSTANCE THEREOF.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Shown to us here is the prophetic foreshadowing of end-time events, when God is bringing all things to full manifestation - the good and the bad; and when He is bringing His Elect through the final exodus.
The final COMING OUT of all carnal and temporary ways, and COMING INTO the eternal Glory of His perfected Body.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] When all else has “fallen away”, a great “forsaking of Truth”; when all else is caught up in deception, following lying signs and wonders, and the vain beauty of the false church, - it is THEN promised that the TENTH (the Tithe) of the people will RETURN. Yes, they will be prophetically placed, divinely recognized and honored... and they will be EATEN. They are for CONSUMING (as Jesus was Jn. 6 : 51 - 58) and their SUBSTANCE is SURE and CERTAIN, HOLY and INCORRUPTIBLE.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Therefore, under such divine government, the growth and development of the Body of Christ will be SURE and CERTAIN. With such a CONSUMING of the true “flesh” of the son of man - our maturity is guaranteed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Paul, the Apostle, was actually a first-fruits example of this true Tithing. His life and ministry was ordered according to this “belonging to the Lord”, and the “offering” of himself to the body of Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] There were many things said and demonstrated of Paul that proved his “election” and the true “substance” of his life. That he was truly a first-fruits “tenth” of divine ministry given to the body of Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]II Corrin. 1 : 9
-we see in Paul “the death” of a true seed so that Life could come forth for others.
- his ministry was not hindered by self-preservation; he had a true Trust in God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]II Corrin. 4 : 10 - 12
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the Life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body...

“So then death worketh in us, but life in you.”
The Voice of a True Seed.
This is a true Tithing “after the power of an endless life.” Heb. 7 : 16 II Corin. 13 : 4[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]II Tim. 2 : 9, 10
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
"Therefore I endure all things for the elects’ sakes...” Spoken like a true seed; the purpose and life of the true tithe. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]II Corin 12 : 15
“And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]So many church members wonder how “their tithes” will be spent...
Be it known unto thee, in God's economy, and in the true function of His spiritual house...a true Tithe knows how "to spend itself".[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Paul’s life was a true tithe, and a cleansed offering. He was a washed, living “vessel”, and a consecrated “chamber” in the true Temple of God.
And in his being consumed and eaten - he was worthy of “attaining unto the resurrection” for which he was apprehended. Phip. 3 : 10 - 12[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Nehemiah 13 : 1 - 13 specifically verses 4 - 9
We see here that a disorder and misuse of the “chambers” and “vessels” of God's House had crept in.
Verse 6, this disorder came about while the oversight - the protection of God-ordained leadership was absent.
Consequently, it became necessary that a “cleansing of the chambers” had to be ordered and supervised by the prophetic anointing. It was a reconsecration and hallowing of those “positions” and “ministries” within the Temple. (Mala. 3 : 1 - 4)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] The vessels had to be again brought in and properly placed. The “portions” of ministry had to be prophetically reestablished. (Verses 9 - 13)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Nehemiah actually saw this disorder and misuse of the vessels of God as “forsaking the House of God.” The house of God, the body of Christ is “forsaken”, left in a desolate condition, when the “vessels” (the people), the “chambers” (the positions) and the “portions” (the various measures of ministry) are not set in place and prophetically established.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Nehemiah 13 : 9 - 13
As the true Tithing and offerings of the people return, and are brought into the House of God (the body of Christ) and set in their foreordained Placings, we then have a Divine order of Spiritual Revelation - an Eternal foundation, that God can fully indwell.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]In this Divine order, and upon the spiritual foundation of Revelation (Matt. 16 : 16 - 18) within the dwelling of Christ's body, there will be necessary conditions and safeguards, delegations of function and oversight. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Ezekiel 37 : 21 - 23, 26 - 28
-we see here the necessary conditions of SEPARATION and CLEANSING
1. From the world, idolatry and carnality.
2. From false religions, false yokings and allegiances (Isa. 10 : 27).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Ezekiel 20 : 34 - 37 (Mala. 3 : 1 - 5)
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]God doth require a thorough COMING OUT and a perfect COMING INTO...
- OUT from the False, the Temporal, the Carnal
- and INTO the True, the Eternal, the Spiritual
- renewal of Identity and Purpose.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Nehemiah 10 : 28 - 30
We see here again, the Conditions of Separation. An inevitable separation and cleansing that a true understanding of the Word will effect. (FREEDOM from false Yokings - by the Anointing.)
- we see also some Safeguards for STAYING Separate (verse 30 & Ezra 9 : 1, 2). Not mixing the Holy with the Unholy. Mala. 2 : 10 - 15[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] In Nehemiah 13 : 6 - 13 and in Ezra 5 : 1, 2 we see the Safeguard of Prophetic oversight, prophetic ministry and Anointing.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] The Prophetic ministries also APPOINTED and SET IN PLACE the various “wards” of duty and function.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] The Prophetic ministry oversees the “treasurers” and “treasuries”, the receiving and distributing of the Tithes and Offerings:
- discerning the tithes (Mala. 3:18).
- evaluating the “substance” of each offering. Nehe. 13 : 29 - 31 Lev. 27: 8 - 25 1Cor. 14:29
- all discernment and evaluations to be done according to the needs and measure of the true temple, the body of Christ. (Lev. 27:25).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Nehemiah 10 : 28 - 39
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“And to bring the firstfruits of our ground...”
there is to be a bringing of the firstfruits of ALL our increase into the “House of our God” unto the[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] “priests that minister in the house of our God”.
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] “That we would bring the firstfruits...unto the priests, to the chambers (storerooms) of the house of our God; and the Tithes of our ground unto the Levites...”
“...when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.” Nehe. 10 : 37, 38
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“For the children of Israel and the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine, and the oil, unto the Chambers, where are the vessels of the sanctuary, and the priests that minister, and the porters, and the singers, AND WE WILL NOT FORSAKE THE HOUSE OF OUR GOD.” Nehe. 10 : 39[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Here we have a glorious picture of the Body of Christ in operation - as foreshadowed in the Old Testament Temple of natural things: carnal ordinances, physical sacrifices, firstfruits and offerings. Now to be fulfilled[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] in the Spiritual, “living stones” of the Body of Christ with the contributing and distributing of our spiritual substance of increase into each others lives.
- overseen and directed by the prophetic discernment of true ministry. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]THIS is the “true tithing of the true TITHE”...the elect of God, the CALLED OUT and CHOSEN - [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]the “return of the TENTH” offering themselves as living sacrifices to be consumed within the true revelation of Christs’ body.
A true fellowshipping of Life and Truth, the “flesh” and “blood” of the Word and Spirit.
True COMMUNION of the Lord's Body.
Discerning and Partaking of the “flesh and blood” of the Son of man - through each other, as quickened cells of His body.
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
This is “drawing nigh unto God”, Returning unto Him “in tithes and offerings” according to the “power of an endless life”. (Hebrews 7 : 16 - 19)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Thus saith the Lord unto thee, I desire that you - mine elect, would even BE the very “windows of heaven”, opened and poured out upon the desolate places, and the disorder of this world. Ye shall bring order and the Restoration of all creation.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] The enemy - the devourer, shall be rebuked for your sakes, saith the Lord. He shall even be bound for a thousand years, while the fruitfulness of your ground doth flourish. And you, My kingdom, My people - shall become a delightsome land upon this earth. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Ye are surely mine, saith the Lord, in this hour when I make up My jewels. And in the true fear of My Name ye shall RETURN and DISCERN between the Righteous and the wicked. So shall My house be built, and the increase of My kingdom be certain.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] The manifestation of My Power and Righteousness shall be accomplished in a people of Purity, Obedience, and Anointed Authority; so shall I be Glorified, and find My Rest in thee, saith the Lord.[/FONT]

ANM29 said:

When you recognize that ALL you have belongs to God anyway, there is no need to be bound to thinking we are doing God a 'favor' by giving him what already is his anyway. You know it all belongs to him anyway, and he can have whatever you got cause it is his anyway.

God is looking at the heart and your attitude towards money. We are not bound by any percentages when giving.

If you want to give 10% to feel like you are paying God back, then that is fine.

I have come to the place where I realize that God is not even interested in our mere 10% cos I understand that the earth is his and the fullness thereof..that includes HIS money.

It is ALL his anyway, and anything I do with it I am doing for his Glory..that is what God is looking at.

We don't need to think we are paying God back what is his in exchange for blessings. We are under new covenant and loving God with all your heart will lead you to spend all you have for Kingdom business..and seeking his Kingdom first will automatically change your heart over time as to money and the purpose he gives it to you.....................ahh...too much to say on this topic.

So, yes give your 10%, I like to think 100% of mine is HIS anyway.

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100% is His, and all He asks of it is 10%. That's a bargoon!

This is not a tithing thread. I think people ought to be careful with their attitudes, thinking that when people are truly admonishing that because of the attitudes they may be misconstrued as legalistic, when that is far from the truth.

No debating should be taking place here.

Scripture tells us what's up. Either believe what God says or believe what you wish He would say. It's a choice. I don't tithe to pay God back. I tithe because He tells me to, and I want to obey Him., and bless Him.

Floatingaxe said:

100% is His, and all He asks of it is 10%. That's a bargoon!

This is not a tithing thread. I think people ought to be careful with their attitudes, thinking that when people are truly admonishing that because of the attitudes they may be misconstrued as legalistic, when that is far from the truth.

No debating should be taking place here.

Scripture tells us what's up. Either believe what God says or believe what you wish He would say. It's a choice.

Click to expand...

No, this is not a tithing thread. But since this is a thread on legalism ( 10% is a part of legalism, we are under New Covenant )and manipulation and the issue of 'tithe' came up I am bringing up some valuable points.

So, who is debating? Not me..and I had to edit this post to say...No manipulation about not debating should be allowed when you yourself are going back and forth in this thread.

Carry on...

ANM29 said:

No, this is not a tithing thread. But since this is a thread on legalism ( 10% is a part of legalism, we are under New Covenant )and manipulation and the issue of 'tithe' came up I am bringing up some valuable points.

So, who is debating? Not me..

Carry on...

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Good, thanks.

Floatingaxe said:

Good, thanks.

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pinetree said:

good post,,

you can add on all the guilt talk around the 10% church tax too..

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Legalism.... Old Testament laws...

Atlantians said:

There is no such thing as an "anointed brother or sister".
We are ALL priests.

The "anointing" in the "touch not mine anointed" passage is talking about the ordained King of Israel.

And there is no such thing as a "Jezebel spirit that needs to be shut up and pushed back".

The 'Jezebel spirit' is a figure of speech, describing the attitude and manner in which some evil people approach teaching false doctrine.

IE: This would describe a false teacher who subverts the Church from within.

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People take Old Testament scriptures and make them New Testament 'laws', when the OT was a shadow of the coming New Covenant in Christ. They can't get pass the Old, to see the NEW we have in Christ.

Now, some I've been hit with:

"You're acting from your own will, rather than being submitted to the will of God." Translation: You're not taking my advice. I don't like the decision you made, but you're not letting me talk you out of it.

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That is definitly one. I've heard that...

LovebirdsFlying said:

I don't think the OP was meaning to debate whether any of these things, such as tithing, are Scriptural. I think the issue being raised is that Scriptural principles can be used manipulatively. Not that they are all the time or every time, but that they can be.

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Yes, exactly.