$$$ Prosperity... how much is enough?

Droobie · Feb 20, 2002

I'd like to continue a message that I started as a poll in the Polls forums.

Don't be just happy with what you have. Or perhaps to put it another way, don't get complacent with what you have. Think about where you are right now. God has blessed you thus so far, but do you not think that there's so much more that He has in store for you? Even when all our needs are met, we must believe for a surplus! Let our storehouses be overflowing such that in turn our blessings be overflowing.

Of couse I do not mean be money grubbing and materialistic. Jesus' famous quote "It is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle?" Matthew 19:23-24. The story behind this?

In those times, towns and cities had walls built all around them, with gateways called the 'eye of the needle' just big enough for a camel to pass through. However the rich in those days had their camels laden with material wealth and goods, and thus for a camel to pass through the gates, you had to unload the camel, take the camel and goods through, and then load the camel back up. And of course, the richer you were, the more camels you had. The story of the rich young man as told in Matthew 19 was not that wealth was bad. Indeed many take this verse to mean we should live in holy poverty. But in fact, this story tells of how the young man could not let go of his wealth and posessions.

1 Timoth 6:10 It is the love of money that is the root of all kinds of evil. Not money, but the love of it. Money to the Christian is but resource for the ministry. The more we have of it, the more resource we can draw and the more we can do with it.

How much wealth is too much? Should we settle for just enough, should we give all we have to the poor, or should we aim to be as rich as we can be? I put forward that we should be doing the latter. Yes! Radical as it may sound, for a Christian to be as rich as they can be... and then more. All to the glory of God.

solo66 man · Feb 20, 2002

The only real problem with wealth is that it usually becomes number one in the person's life. If we could maintain the priorities
properly, it would not be bad. But I have seen people say
God first, family second, and money third and have it end up when
you get to know them more closely, money is first. They may very
well be nice people, but that is not all God, family and friends want. God especially, wants the whole person. You can count on that. I am sure you read my other posts in your poll. I can post them here if you would like.

Like I said, I have no problem with money. I would love to be blessed with a few million dollars. I think of the wonderful things
I would be able to do with it. I would be able to pay a larger tithe
and larger love offerings. I could contribute to shelters for the homeless and feed the hungry world wide. But now I am beginning to see, even in all that good doing, the pitfalls. First,
my giving that much would be a new burden as far as depending
on that instead of a worshiping, prayerful heart to be closer to God. Soon, it is "I feel good because I gave all that money, but then it is no longer prayer and putting your arm around them. It becomes, handing them a dollar. Then, the evil spirit of pride would slowly begin to raise its ugly head. Look at me. I give more than you. I am more worthy, because I gave $10,000 and you only gave $5000. They should really treat me with respect now. Look out!

Having alot of money has its rewards, but pitfalls more subtle and
not so subtle to deal with. I would gladly take alot more money,
but it is going to be a whole new realm of trials and tribulations.
Who really loves you as a friend and who is using you for your money? If you think you have problems with people using you now, it will be a hundred fold.

Consider before you act and ask for more wealth. It can suddenly
be all you are worth.

JohnR7 · Feb 20, 2002

>>How much wealth is too much? Should we settle for just enough, should we give all we have to the poor, or should we aim to be as rich as we can be? I put forward that we should be doing the latter. Yes! Radical as it may sound, for a Christian to be as rich as they can be... and then more. All to the glory of God.

There is Physical, Finance & Spiritual prosperity and God does want to prosper us. What people do not realize is that there is only two ways that God prospers our finances. First when we give, He gives back more than we gave. Then when we plant seeds He gives back 30, 60 or 100 fold. But this requires work.

If we are not working or if we are not giving, then we can not expect God to be blessing us. He will increase what we give, but He will greatly multiply our works if they are done in HIm. To show people that we are blessed of God.

IF we do not work, if we do not give, then we should not expect prosperity. God does not reward people who sit down and do nothing, except to have positive thoughts about how wealthy they are going to be someday. Wealth through positive thinking: "thing and grow rich" is of the devil. nepolian hill was into the occult and consulting with demons. Thanks, JohnR7

Ephes. 4:28
Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.

Droobie · Feb 20, 2002

Here here JohnR7... here here!

Terri · Feb 20, 2002

1TI 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. (NIV)

MT 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (KJV)

Sorry to hear you want to try the way of possible ruin and destruction--just remember you have been warned.

I do believe that you are free to choose!

Droobie · Feb 20, 2002

Hi Terri... I agree with you fully both verses you have quoted. The Bible teaches us to be content with what we have, but that doesn't mean we can't go for that promotion, work harder for that raise or bonus, make that investment, manage your funds more wisely. We are to be good stewards with what we have. Take the parable of the talents for example - Matthew 25:14-28

14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talents[1] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
19"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

As you see, God has entrusted us with wealth. Some of us are more able to manage our finances more than others, but we are still expected to do something with it.

As you read further in 1 Timothy 6:10, it is the love of money which is wrong. There's nothing wrong with getting rich, but I would questions are you getting rich just to be rich and have all the material wealth? Yes... money is a temptation, but that doesn't mean we cannot use it to further God's kingdom. Serving money, and using money for God's purpose are two entirely different things. Being blessed and giving go hand in hand.

Wouldn't it be better if you were in a position of wealth and had God as number one in your life. Your material richness is merely resource. Not a means to measure how well you've done in your life, but as a well you can dip from to be able to bless others with.

Yes, be content in that you're not yearning, or coveting things you do not have. That woule be wrong. But don't be complacent and think there's nothing more that God wants me to do. Never think "Well that's it for me... God wants me to stay just right here, and that the best that I can do" That's not God's promise for you, but the devil trying to put you down.

solo66 man · Feb 20, 2002

Ok, so are you rich? Go ahead. It is not a sin at all. If you want the trouble that comes with being rich and you think you can still
maintain a growth in becoming closer to God. Do it. All I am saying is it solves some problems while creating a multitude of others. Abraham was rich. Job was a billionaire by todays standards. King David and King Solomon were by no means poor.
Get dooowwn. Do it.

Terri · Feb 20, 2002

Hi Droobie,

If you are feeling a desire to go after all of that stuff can you really say you feel content?

I find when I focus on the things of this world it separates me from God.

COL 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

I find giving up my worldly desire have brought me closer to God than I could have ever imagined. I would just wish this for you.

Terri

Hishandmaiden · Feb 20, 2002

I feel that it is all right to be contented with things that you had. Pursuing worldly things can be endless. Yes, if God does bless us with wealth, that is no reason to reject his gift. But if God do not want us to be very rich, then be contented with what you have. Well,that is just my view!

Droobie · Feb 20, 2002

Terri, you're right. Do not 'desire' things of the world, and have your heart set on God. At the same time use the things of the world, to further the kingdom of God. The more we can give, the more missions we can support, the more outreach programs we can create, the more Bibles we can purchase to give away, the more charities we can donate to, the more missionary families we can support from abroad, the more we can spread the word to all ends of the World. All need money do they not?

solo66 man · Feb 20, 2002

Droobie, please give me a million dollars and I promise to split it with my church.

Droobie · Feb 20, 2002

Aaaah... Solo66... I would if I could...

Please people, don't get me wrong... I'm not telling everyone to chase material wealth.

Let me draw an example... If Harry had an income of $50,000 a year, and he tithed 10%. What if Bob had an income of $500,000 a year and tithed the same amount; 10%. Both are tithing equally, and Bob is no better than Harry, nor is he going to get to heaven any quicker than Harry, nor is his lifestyle any less 'righteous' than Harry. My point is that the church would be able to do more with what Bob has given than with Harry.

The idea is for everyone to improve their stations... improve their incomes so that there be a greater giving for the purpose of God's ministry and missions.

marmaladePRO · Feb 20, 2002

i wish above ALL THINGS that you prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers!!! praise God, great thread.
i believe that i have been called to be a blessing financially for the body of Christ... so: pressed down, shaken together shall men give unto my bossom... so that i am blessed to be a blessing.
by looking at me someone might laugh at that statement, i might not look *rich* at all, but everything i have been blessed with is because of my faithfulness and diligence (which would be nothing without God giving the increase

) and nothing at all on my own...
i have sorrow for folks who don't want to deal with finances, but no more than i have sorrow for other folks too. it's not my place to judge, nor my place to demand you live my way regarding this, but God wills to bless his children in all manner of gifts and blessings... (even money)

JohnR7 · Feb 20, 2002

>>Ok, so are you rich?

Most people in America are "rich" by third world standards. In a lot of countries $100 a month is about all they can expect to make, just enough to feed themselves.

My wife and I are very blessed that we have all we need, so that we are able to help others to have their basic needs taken care of. But it has taken us a little while to get to where we are at.

God first tests us with little things, to see if we are faithfull there. Then if we prove ourselves, He gives us more and bigger things to help others with.

So many people are asking for LOTS but they are not being faithful with what little they have, so why should God give them more? The Kingdom of Heaven is like a mustard seed, things start off small and grow from there. Thanks, JohnR7

Droobie · Feb 20, 2002

You're right there John. My message is not to those who would have any other agenda besides God's in their minds. Most of us are good with what we've been blessed with, so let's not stop there. Some people tithe 10% of their incomes, which is Bibically correct, and what God requests... but why stop there?

Sharptee · Feb 20, 2002

I am glad your post came up with this discussion on wealth. I know I need to learn to be content with my income and not use credit cards. I heard on a Christian radio where a Christian financial counselor stated that covteousness is causing more and more of God's people to stand away from the ministry.

kimanne · Feb 21, 2002

This is a subject that caused me guilt for quite a time. I have finally come to resolve it in my own heart.

Wealth can be defined by a very broad range. I think of wealth as anything above what we need for basic necessities. How you obtain your wealth and how grateful you are to God for it can be a huge indicator of where your heart is. I have known several very wealthy people, and most people who have received their wealth by their own honest sweat were very grateful. But those who received their wealth by being born into it show great shallowness.

My husband and I started out without any money, but we were grateful for the hamburger that I learned to make 401 different ways. We still go to drive-in hamburger joint we visited in our "poorer" days and reminisce about our youthful plans for the future then. Back then, we were only "poor" of money, but not of faith or gladness. In the many years since, we have been very blessed by God, and although we do not consider ourselves rich by any means, I can see that we have much more than basic necessities. I used to feel guilty about it. Then I read somewhere in the Word that to those who are given much, much more will be expected. We each need to internalize that to realize what it means for us. I also found this to be helpful:

Eccl. 5:19-20 - Moreover, when God gives any man wealth and possesions, and enables him to enjoy them, to accept his lot and be happy in his work - this is a gift of God. He seldom reflects on the days of life, because God keeps him occupied with gladness of heart.

When you can be content and grateful with where you are today and feel richly blessed (whether you have many possessions or not), that is your gift from God. I think that those who are blessed with prosperity, need to be mindful that we need to not only share our wealth with others, but we do not forget that charity and love to others is not just writing a check. It is serving. It is giving of our time and our hearts. It is feeding others with not only food, but spiritual bread, and all the while, keeping our eyes on the Lord! Serving others is our inheritance...
because our Savior came not to be served, but to serve others.

Optimus_P · Feb 21, 2002

in matters of where your heart is. You can take everything i own but one thing you cant take is my belief in the Lord.

I have been blessed w/ alot of great gifts throuout my life and i am thankful for them and i take care of them, but i would give them up in a heart beat if the Lord ask me to.

rwc109 · Feb 21, 2002

Luk 19:7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
Luk 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Mandy · Feb 21, 2002

The man who makes $500,000 a year will not get any greater reward than the man who makes $50,000 a year. God look at our hearts and we will be rewarded based on our attitude with which we gave. I personally would rather focus on my walk with God than on a promotion at work, because it does take away from my walk. I find that when I focus on Him and not on worldly things, that He blesses me. I remember looking for a house and spending most of my time thinking about it and trying to get it, well it fell through; I didn't get my house. Then out of the blue (a year later) me and my husband after being told of a house for sale, we went and looked at it, trusted in the Lord to do His will, put it in His hands and it became ours. Christians who are walking upright and unhypocritically will influence the world for Christ more than money. So my opinion is that we should not focus on the things of the world because they will pass away, but instead focus on storing up our treasures in heaven. If the Lord really wants to bless you with wealth, then you will not have to strive to attain it.

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