The Qur'an
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what is your point to post this? This is our Church and you know it.. You had no business to take our church and make it to a mosque...Futhermore why is it here? to show what? How great of a dominant religion is Islam??
How many Christians martyrs died under Islam?
countless...
How can anyone talk about islam be a religion of peace....?
Philothei.
Do you think that earth belongs to anyone?
Earth and its treasures belongs to the Creator. It is not our right to say that this is ours. Because this Holy place is built to please the Creator not to say that it is ours.
Allah/God/YHWH say:
18. "And the places of worship are for Allah (alone): So invoke not any one along with Allah.
And for the ones who did mischief by killing innocents may Allah/God/YHWH forgive them. They did it with no knowledge away from Holy words they just followed their ambitions thinking that they were doing good thing for Islam and the world.
Do we remember them now? I mean all of us saying oh they did a great thing to the humanity. In every battle in the world their are victims because of the war starter who has evil in him. But if we think of us all the same way we think about ourselves, at that time we may reach the peace we are looking for.
But were they aware of what the prophet ( peace be upon him) said:
Anas relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”
Did he say your Muslim brother? Did he say your own brother or sister as members of family? What if someone doesn't have brothers or sisters?
His words mean the humans on earth the ones who really love and didn't plot against their sisters or brothers from another belief because they are not the judges. It is Allah/God/YHWH the One who judges the people and not with injustice, He judges them with justice for the mischief they did for others in life.
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okay. that is cool.. so there is some flexibility to that "cleansing" ritual. Mind you that you should always take a shower though....no substitute for a shower... Do they do this every time they pray that is five times a day?
There are some conditions for the shower you take. For sure you are going to go to the bathroom so you will break the purity or cleanness, see what I mean.
So, if the purity is not broken then you will be ready to read the Holy Quran.
The idea of ablution is to protect you from the devil and to clean your face ,hands and feet from dust and any dirt.
http://www.islamawareness.net/Wudu/sahih_bukhari.html
Ibn 'Abbas performed ablution and washed his face (in the following way): He ladled out a handful of water, rinsed his mouth and washed his nose with it by putting in water and then blowing it out. He then, took another handful (of water) and did like this (gesturing) joining both hands, and washed his face, took another handful of water and washed his right forearm. He again took another handful of water and washed his left forearm, and passed wet hands over his head and took another handful of water and poured it over his right foot (up to his ankles) and washed it thoroughly and similarly took another handful of water and washed thoroughly his left foot (up to the ankles) and said, "I saw Allah's Apostle performing ablution in this way."
http://infoguide.wordpress.com/category/treasure-of-hadith/
You will get used to it so quickly, In Allah's/God's/YHWH's will.
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May I sak you to take that helmet and the detecting glasses off.
You are with people who are trying to make peace and you are ready for a fight?
Take that off to breath properly the air that the Creator created for us to inhale instead of suffocating ourselves with things that we made by our own hands thinking that they are there to protect us.
But from what? If we reach the point of accepting each other as we are then there will be no need for helmets to wear or sun glasses to hide behind.
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Passionfruit,
How did this man write something about the past, present and the future?
Even soothsayers make mistakes. Devils who fly high to the sky to listen to the words of the Creator to the angels, they are fought with shooting stars to protect the truth.
Surah 72. The Jinn, Sprites
1. Say: It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur'an). They said, 'We have really heard a wonderful Recital!
2. 'It gives guidance to the Right, and we have believed therein: we shall not join (in worship) any (gods) with our Lord.
3. 'And Exalted is the Majesty of our Lord: He has taken neither a wife nor a son.
4. 'There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter extravagant lies against Allah.
5. 'But we do think that no man or spirit should say aught that untrue against Allah.
6. 'True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the Jinns, but they increased them in folly.
7. 'And they (came to) think as ye thought, that Allah would not raise up any one (to Judgment).
8. 'And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.
9. 'We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush. 10. 'And we understand not whether ill is intended to those on earth, or whether their Lord (really) intends to guide them to right conduct.
And why didn't we imitate this man's ability to write something like the Holy Books? Why it is impossible?
And why are the Holy Books so special? Beside the fact that they are sent as an inspiration by the Creator to prophets, they are not sent down as books to hold in hands except the for Moses when the Creator sent him the Ark of Covenant:
Surah 2. The Cow
248. And (further) their Prophet said to them: "A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol for you if ye indeed have faith."
And what will make a book written by a man useful for all times if he doesn't even know what will happen the next second of his life?
For example, a book written by a doctor will be directed to doctors or patients but does it contain all humans? Or in this doctor's book , the humanity is the last thing in his list to think about?
Put in mind that every human if he write a book , he will be thinking of himself, the knowledge he studied and the money he will put in his pocket.
I really wish that Holy Books are given for free and not to be sold for the fact that they are more preciouse than being sold with certain amount of money. And to give this amount of money to the needy ones instead.
Now, Holy Books are to enlight our brains and to make personalities able to live in peace and love.
Think about it. What did humans do to humanity?
Why they weren't stopped by their humanish nature from killing sacred souls that the Creator forbids us from killing?
It is because they lost the track of the Creator and followed the track of the devil who will be so pleased to drink blood from those who were killed.
The devil lives on our tragedy, with our peace and love, he will find somewhere else to mislead people in.
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PassionFruit
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Like I keep asking, why use a holy book? If God wanted to communicate with humanity, why communicate through a holy book? Especially when it has the possibility of having errors? In fact, why would God communicate with mankind in the first place? Why did God pick certain prophets?
Holy books are not needed for enlightenment.
That's interesting you would point this out. What about the fact that people kill in the name of their creator? Now you're talking about the devil, why does God allow for the devil to exist if his only purpose is to lead people astray? God must have a reason fro allowing the devil to do this.
So I'm asking you as well, why use holy books to communicate with man, when they're subject to errors? It doesn't make sense.
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HumbleSiPilot77
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You are taking this very literally. Never said Satan wrote a "holy" book. It should be known that Christians don't suggest that Satan had sat down and wrote a book and delivered it, theologically it goes deeper than that. Main argument is the influence. Again, Christians, using our own doctrine can explain why we don't believe that Quran is not of God. However, I don't seem to think there is enough justification why I should expound on this to people who don't believe Satan exists. But why a "holy" book while there was already a holy book? To deviate from one to another. Hope that clarifies....
Pondering upon that, you will find Jesus Christ, the Uncreated Light!
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HumbleSiPilot77
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what is your point to post this? This is our Church and you know it.. You had no business to take our church and make it to a mosque...Futhermore why is it here? to show what? How great of a dominant religion is Islam??
How many Christians martyrs died under Islam?
countless...
How can anyone talk about islam be a religion of peace....?
That doesn't look like Hagia Sophia, by the look of minarets, and I don't see the red glow, however, I have no doubt she doesn't know the difference.
Here she is in her GLORY!
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Since when God cared about my snot when I stood before him with a dirty heart? These show-off rituals are not the works of heart but it is the make believe, feel good practices that are prescribed for no apparent reason. I am clean because it comes from the heart, not because I am told it is the way how God likes it. God knows my best cleanliness is not worth looking down from His kingdom...
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HumbleSiPilot77
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May I ask you why there is a sword under the Shahadah on your Saudi flag? Stick to the facts, don't worry about my avatar.
See, by trying to integrate your islamic doctrine to the Judeo-Christian teachings by smiles and intended tolerance, you do not convince me. Your posts shows utter ignorance of Christian teachings.
When you quote Quran surah 72;
and tag YHWH to it you are in error. Because then you have the burden to show when YHWH didn't say "And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." where this YHWH of yours said "To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort?"
So let's stick to the rules of the game. I don't like fake smiles and cyber jihadists!
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PassionFruit
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I understand what you're saying here. I can see why Christians don't believe in the Qu'ran. It seems you're saying (based on your criteria whatever that may be) that you have concluded the Qu'ran is not of God. What criteria do you go by to label something as being not of God?
And you're also saying the Qu'ran was influenced by Satan, I'm very curious as to why you believe this.
Are you pondering upon why God would rely on flawed creatures to communicate his word? And am I supposed to be looking for Jesus Christ?
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Very simple, Christ says so. If you noticed, I am not spoon-feeding the answers to you, but rather willing to see if you are going to do your own research.
Arrogance is unnecessary. Christians believe that His Word took human Flesh and was not corrupt. God do not rely on men, therefore He took care of the issue of salvation of men by Himself.
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Amen to that, Bushmaster.
Those type of things are superficial and external. Who cares if I could pray 5 times per day if my heart is filthy. Islam doesn't seem to understand this. It sees rituals and sets out to practice them. The rituals make them feel righteous.
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If you are not a Muslim and you know nothing about the Holy Quran, why did you recommend Abdullah Yusuf Ali in particular for others to buy as the best translations for the Holy Quran.
His translations are full of mistakes. In the thread I am going to put, you will know why his translation is full of mistakes.
Non Muslims shouldn't give any advises in behalf of Muslims. OK
Mind your own Baha'i belief, if you please!
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Arthra
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Hello "dnihila"!
If you note in the opening post it asked for English translations.. A Yusuf Ali is one of the most widely known. I also mentioned Muhammad Asad and Allamah Nooruddin .
Anyway if you know a better translation please share it!
I answered the opening post because no Muslim had yet answered and being Baha'i and accepting the Qur'an thought it would be appropriate.
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rahma
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If one is in the United States, they can obtain a beautiful Qur'an translation for the cost of shipping from CAIR (braces for the accusations that CAIR is evil). I own this translation, and it's one of my favorites. It has excellent footnotes that survey a wide variety of quranic commentary. On occasion, the translator's conclusions aren't quite the norm, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
However, I should note that when I read the Qur'an in translation, I usually do so with several translations in front of me. If one translation doesn't capture the totality of the meaning of a particular word or verse, usually several together provide a better meaning. I usually have the Muhammad Asad one I mentioned above, as well as saheeh international and Thomas Cleary. The former is more in a quasi old english with thees and thous, where as the latter two are more modern english. Saheeh International is a pretty run of the mill, middle of the road translation. Thomas Cleary does things a bit differently, which I find interesting and refreshing.
However, I should note that when I read the Qur'an in translation, I usually do so with several translations in front of me. If one translation doesn't capture the totality of the meaning of a particular word or verse, usually several together provide a better meaning. I usually have the Muhammad Asad one I mentioned above, as well as saheeh international and Thomas Cleary. The former is more in a quasi old english with thees and thous, where as the latter two are more modern english. Saheeh International is a pretty run of the mill, middle of the road translation. Thomas Cleary does things a bit differently, which I find interesting and refreshing.
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rahma
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Amen to that, Bushmaster.
The religion consists of 3 things: Islam, Iman and Ihsan. Islam are the rituals, the declaration of faith, prayer, fasting, charity and hajj. Iman is the faith, what we believe, in God, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, the Day of Judgment and Divine Decree. Ihsan is the internal, the purification of the heart.
If one practices islam in it's totality, as it's suppose to be practiced, they will pay attention to the outward details AND the inward state of one's heart and soul. In the rituals of washing, we are not merely washing our outward limbs. We are washing to remind ourselves that we should not sin with our tongue, our hands, our eyes, our heart. With each movement, we ask forgiveness for our transgressions and seek to remain pure there after.
So no, they are not suppose to be empty rituals that are superficial and external. They are an extension of our inward purification.
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I also recommend Thomas Cleary's translation for an English reader, some translations (like Pickthall's) are KJV-like and could cause confusion. Apparently it's very accurate (I wouldn't know of course, can't read Arabic) but certainly it reads nicely.
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PassionFruit
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Having read the New Testament I'm assuming that you mean that Jesus Christ did warn against false teachings and taught he's the way.
I'm not being arrogant. But I kind of thought you were brushing me off by telling me I'll find Jesus Christ.
Unless I was mistaken. Who would you recommend then, for a good English translation of the Qu'ran that's not filled with errors? Please do share, because I'd like to know.
And what kind of errors are talking about specifically? Are there issues with translations, are there chapters and suras that may be missing, etc.
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