Christians deny my acceptance of Christ?

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Arthra

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Regarding the "Son of God" issue there's an article in wikipedia that has a pretty good summary.. One of the statements in the article has this:

"It is generally agreed that the language Jesus ordinarily spoke was Aramaic, even if he perhaps also spoke some Greek (see Aramaic of Jesus).[5] The lack of primary sources in Aramaic about the life of Jesus makes it impossible to determine whether he himself or others referred to him in that language as "a son of God" or as "the Son of God" or neither."

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_god

I tend to feel that what we have of the teachings of Jesus and His life were glossed over by Greek writers and that the older Aramaic idioms were pretty much forgotten or lost.

- Art:wave:
 
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Jersey

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I can't have it both ways. I have to give up one `in order to gain the other. To me they are telling me I have to pick one color and leave behind the others for a painting. imagine life is just one color or object. I know I'm talking about Maya, but why can't I put two things together to make one? Like blue and yellow = green? Why can't I accept Christ and Krishna as one, is it really that Sinful?

At this point I really feel that Christianity and Muslim-ism are the most destructive religions in the world!

I mean what the hell, didn't it take more then one tool to build their churches? Or even more then one kind of material. I mean its not like we humans are just made of bones.

It can be a vary beautiful thing, like a seed, water, dirt and sun can become a flower. What good is a seed without the others?

I hear ya. The best thing for you to do is to take a stand and accept Christ as your savior and maintain your relationship with Krisna too. At least you have a couple bases covered just in case right? You know how unreliable the after life can be right? You never know who you'll be standing before on judgment day. It might be Yahweh, Jehova, Jesus, Allah, Krisna or maybe even Mithra for that matter. It's best not to take any chances when it comes to avoiding hell.
 
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arunma

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I hear ya. The best thing for you to do is to take a stand and accept Christ as your savior and maintain your relationship with Krisna too. At least you have a couple bases covered just in case right? You know how unreliable the after life can be right? You never know who you'll be standing before on judgment day. It might be Yahweh, Jehova, Jesus, Allah, Krisna or maybe even Mithra for that matter. It's best not to take any chances when it comes to avoiding hell.

I have no idea if this is meant to be taken as facetious or not. However, I would point out that Jesus Christ will condemn anyone who worships other gods alongside himself. "Playing it safe" will never substitute for true love for God.
 
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peaceful soul

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I hear ya. The best thing for you to do is to take a stand and accept Christ as your savior and maintain your relationship with Krisna too. At least you have a couple bases covered just in case right? You know how unreliable the after life can be right? You never know who you'll be standing before on judgment day. It might be Yahweh, Jehova, Jesus, Allah, Krisna or maybe even Mithra for that matter. It's best not to take any chances when it comes to avoiding hell.


If Christ says that He is the Way to the Father, then that will exclude all other choices unless He is wrong about that. In the spiritual realm, there is no such thing as covering yourself. This is not like selecting stocks and trying to make sure that you diversify so that you don't loose your overall investment. So, tell me, can you serve two masters that contradict each other? Will both masters regard you as obedient? Answer that question please?
 
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dlamberth

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So, tell me, can you serve two masters that contradict each other? Will both masters regard you as obedient? Answer that question please?
Not if it's the same master that both are praying to and worshipping.

Where you might see Jesus as the master, others might look towards whom Jesus looked towards as His master instead. And other spiritual leaders might be doing the same.

.
 
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vedickings

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By definition, Christ cannot be Krishna. This is the short answer. If you want a longer one I can give it to you.

By accepting Christ as Krishna you are in fact rejecting Christ. And yes, it is sinful. It is in fact the ultimate sin in diverting your worship from the Father to other dieties. It is a breaking of the first commandment given to Moses and a breaking of Jesus' commandment to love God with all your heart and with all your spirit.

If you want to accept Christ, you have to make a clean break with the old ways.

You see in Hinduism, we have already accepted Christ, as all the Gods and Goddess are of the same Supersoul.

So the only difference between the who is the time and place.
 
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dlamberth

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Yeah this is the pantheistic notion of god ... Foreign to Christians and Jews. How can Christ be included since Christ does not recognize any other gods but ONLY his Father?
Personally, I look at the Panentheistic perspective of God. Mainly because I don't know how to separate God from His own Creation. The who idea to me is preposterous and can't be done. Anyway, the way Christ is included is because the God Jesus prayed to and worshipped is the same God as others in other spiritual traditions pray to and worship.



.
 
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peaceful soul

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Not if it's the same master that both are praying to and worshipping.

Where you might see Jesus as the master, others might look towards whom Jesus looked towards as His master instead. And other spiritual leaders might be doing the same.

.

You are not seeing your personal dilemma. Even if they were praying to the same master, they have conflicting messages that can't be resolved by inclusion of both into your beliefs. A can not equal B in the same time and sense. That is what the law of non contradictions says.

The fact is that Jesus made claims that cannot also include Krisha's claims. Both can't be correct; therefore, at least one of them has false claims. That is very simple deduction.
 
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dlamberth

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You are not seeing your personal dilemma. Even if they were praying to the same master, they have conflicting messages that can't be resolved by inclusion of both into your beliefs. A can not equal B in the same time and sense. That is what the law of non contradictions says.

The fact is that Jesus made claims that cannot also include Krisha's claims. Both can't be correct; therefore, at least one of them has false claims. That is very simple deduction.
Where you are looking at claims, I'm looking at where they touch the Father...the One. There in lies the difference. When looking at God, there is no dilemma.



.
 
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Ramona

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I can't have it both ways. I have to give up one `in order to gain the other. To me they are telling me I have to pick one color and leave behind the others for a painting. imagine life is just one color or object. I know I'm talking about Maya, but why can't I put two things together to make one? Like blue and yellow = green? Why can't I accept Christ and Krishna as one, is it really that Sinful?

At this point I really feel that Christianity and Muslim-ism are the most destructive religions in the world!

I mean what the hell, didn't it take more then one tool to build their churches? Or even more then one kind of material. I mean its not like we humans are just made of bones.

It can be a vary beautiful thing, like a seed, water, dirt and sun can become a flower. What good is a seed without the others?

Yes, they probably do, but please don't let that stop you. Eventually, we all have to forge our own paths...and since y'all know what you're drawn to, you're all several steps ahead of me!!
 
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buzuxi02

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It does not matter whether Christ refered to himself as Son of God or Son of Man, both cannotate the same thing. More precisely the most semitic sayings in nature in the synoptics, Christ refers to himself as "Son", such as the saying, "No one knows that hour not the angels in heaven nor the Son but only the Father."

Christ many times made a distinction between "my God" and "your God" or "My Father" and "Your Father". In order to demonstrate a difference between his relationship with God from ours. In Christ's prayer life he refered to God as "Abba" (literally papa or daddy). Christ spoke of God in a direct familial way, as that of a child to his parent, this is quite unique. The internal evidence of the text further demonstrates that very early it was common to associate Christ as the "Only/Beloved Son". Christ makes mention of this about himself as the Only/Beloved Son in a parable, "Therefore having one Son His Beloved , he also sent him to them last saying, They will respect my son...(Mark 12.6).

This close relationship in a direct way as the Father being a literal daddy to Jesus conveyed the idea that Christ was indeed divine and did indeed have a personal relayionship as a son to a father. It even raised the ire of hs fellow jews, "Therefore the jews sought all the more to kill him, because He not only broke the sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making himself equal to God."(Jn 5.18)

This close relationship using the "beloved/only" title is echoed in the divine voice emanating from heaven, "This is My Beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased..."(Mk 1.11).

In the epistle to the Colossians it reminds us not about the Son of God(or man) but as it says, "He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the Kingdom of the Son of His Love".(Col 1.13)

A semitic saying relating Christ as a Son of the Father is found in Matt 11.27 where Jesus says of himself-, "All things have been delivered to me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal him".

The above saying is mirrored in the gospel of John which is closely related to the "only/beloved" lineage of the Son title, "No one has seen God at anytime, the Only-begotten Son who is in the bossom of the Father has declared Him."(Jn 1.18)
All these sayings demonstrate the exclusiveness of the relationship between God and Christ which differs from the norm.

Lets now take a look at a title never used by Christ for himself in the NT, nor by his disciples, and never was part of the christian tradition at anytime, yet played an important role in the last days of Jesus life. That of "King of the Jews". This was one of the charges brought againt Jesus during his trial. In fact it was so prevalent that it was written in 3 different languages over the cross. When the jews read the inscription, "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews" over his cross, they quickly asked the roman authorities to change it, to read: "He said I am the King of the Jews".(Jn 19.19-21)

By the time Christ was crucified the claim of being a King and being a Son of God implied the same thing which is messiahship, the one the jews awaited for.

"And they put up over his head the accusation written against him" This is Jesus the King of the Jews.....and those who passed by him blasphemed him, wagging their heads saying, "You who destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save yourself, If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross. Likewise the chief priests also mocking him with the elders said, He saved others, Himself he cannot save, If he is the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross... He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him now if He wiil have Him, for He said I am the Son of God ". (Matt 27 37-43)

As we can see from the above passage "Son of God" and King of the Jews (or Israel) was interchangeable. In Matthew's gospel Christ asks his disciples who do people claim he is. After the disciples respond, Christ then asks them who they say He is. Peter answers, "you are Christ the Son of the Living God"(Matt 16.16) Jesus them exhorts him that it was God who revealed this to him not man.

This parallels the conversation Jesus had with Pontius Pilate. "Then Pilate entered the Praetorium ,called Jesus and said to him, "Are you the King of the Jews"? Jesus answered him, Are you speaking for yourself about this OR did others tell you this concerning me?" (Jn 18.33-37)

The title Son of God is actually the less prestigious title in the gospels. On the otherhand the title Son of Man is of a higher christological value. To demonstrate this lets look at when the chief priests interrogate Christ, "Are you the Christ the Son of the Blessed?, Jesus Answered, I am and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."(Mk14.61)

Here we have recorded a highly semitic saying where even the name of God is avoid being mention as was customary among the jewish culture. The Chief priests tore his garment and the sanhedrin proceeded to convict him to death.

Now lets take a look at the only time in the entire NT where someone uses the title Son of Man for Christ rather than Son of God, "But he being full of the Holy Spirit gazed into heaven and saw the Glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God! Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears ad ran ay him with one accord. and they cast him out of the city and stoned him...(Acts7.55-58)

As we can see, the jews wanted death only when either Christ himself or a disciple made Him on par with God. The title "Son" (of God or man) can be used interchangeably in the NT and Son of Man in the synoptics tends to be the more prestigious title.
 
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Philothei

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"And they put up over his head the accusation written against him" This is Jesus the King of the Jews.....and those who passed by him blasphemed him, wagging their heads saying, "You who destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save yourself, If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross. Likewise the chief priests also mocking him with the elders said, He saved others, Himself he cannot save, If he is the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross... He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him now if He wiil have Him, for He said I am the Son of God ". (Matt 27 37-43)

Thanks Bouzouxi... that is worth repeating....

Thus the claim that we do not see Christ claiming sonship in the synoptics is false...

*BTW Xronia Polla for today's feast day*... Any Panos or Panayota in your family or Maria?
 
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Philothei

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Where you are looking at claims, I'm looking at where they touch the Father...the One. There in lies the difference. When looking at God, there is no dilemma.



.


It is like this:

A (christ) gives us message -> B

C(Krishna) give us message -> D....

How is Christ and Krishna the same... they do not share anything in common....
the only common the have is that they are both "leaders" and have a "message" other than that they both have their own "soteriology" and their "cosmology" (the idea of the world and its creation) so thus the contradiction....

The God of Christ is a different god for Krishna....It you believe they are the same ...you deny both. You "distort" them both...to make them fit together....
 
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Secundulus

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Now lets take a look at the only time in the entire NT where someone uses the title Son of Man for Christ rather than Son of God, "But he being full of the Holy Spirit gazed into heaven and saw the Glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God! Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears ad ran ay him with one accord. and they cast him out of the city and stoned him...(Acts7.55-58)
As you say, "Son of Man" indicated Godhead. The phrase is used in the Old Testament as follows:

NJB, Daniel 7:13-14
I was gazing into the visions of the night, when I saw, coming on the clouds of heaven, as it were a son of man. He came to the One most venerable and was led into his presence. On him was conferred rule, honour and kingship, and all peoples, nations and languages became his servants. His rule is an everlasting rule which will never pass away, and his kingship will never come to an end.
 
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Secundulus

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To equate Jesus Christ with any other supposed divine being makes Jesus Christ a big liar. Why do you want to follow a liar. Or do you suppose that he was a great teacher but that Christians wrongfully elevated him to the godhead? If this is so, then the only evidence you have for any claim on Christ is what is written in our scriptures. How do you reject one phrase and then go on to accept another?

Better for you to reject him entirely as a fraud or accept him as the incarnate God than to attempt to recreate him in the image you wish to see.
 
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peaceful soul

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It is like this:

A (christ) gives us message -> B

C(Krishna) give us message -> D....

How is Christ and Krishna the same... they do not share anything in common....
the only common the have is that they are both "leaders" and have a "message" other than that they both have their own "soteriology" and their "cosmology" (the idea of the world and its creation) so thus the contradiction....

The God of Christ is a different god for Krishna....It you believe they are the same ...you deny both. You "distort" them both...to make them fit together....

Well said, Philothei.:thumbsup: I don't understand why do don't get it. The law of non contradiction stipulates that two things can't be both true if they are contradicting in the same sense and time. You can't obey two masters if they tell you contradicting things in both sense and time. When Jesus says that He is the way, then that excludes anyone else who makes the same claim. Even if that claim is not made by another, Jesus' claim, if true, then makes the others false by implication. I don't know why people can't see something like this that appears so simple to understand on the surface. It is not like we need to study theology and extensive scriptures to get this concept. It only requires an open mind--no theology at all.

Thanks for putting things so succintly.
 
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peaceful soul

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To equate Jesus Christ with any other supposed divine being makes Jesus Christ a big liar. Why do you want to follow a liar. Or do you suppose that he was a great teacher but that Christians wrongfully elevated him to the godhead? If this is so, then the only evidence you have for any claim on Christ is what is written in our scriptures. How do you reject one phrase and then go on to accept another?

Better for you to reject him entirely as a fraud or accept him as the incarnate God than to attempt to recreate him in the image you wish to see.

Secudulus, both you and Philothei just make too much sense! Both of you get right to the point and make great points.:thumbsup:

Thanks!

I am quite amazed how this modern world likes to put such great emphasis on things that are similar and try to make everything look agreeable while they do not emphaisize the contradictions and treat them with the same vigor. They have learned to warp reality and their ability to be logically sound by not keeping an even balance between the two. The contradictions are how we are able to distinguish between things and tell right from wrong, moral from immoral, etc.
 
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Philothei

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To Philothei:

Since you keep saying "I will not repeat this" and giving me replies which I already agreed, I might as well repeat this:

1. In the synoptic gospels, Jesus NEVER claim to be the Son of God. Others (the devil, angels, people) may make that statement, but not Jesus, the son of Mary.

2. You mentioned in your earlier post that Christ did not wish to highlight his Son of God status. I diagree and said that Jesus was actually worried that people will call him the Messiah, or Christ. You have not explained to me why I am wrong and I know there are people here reading this.

Looking forward to your reply.

My reply already posted..# 80, and Buzuxi's reply #93... I do not see you around though...Do not say again that i did not answer your question.
 
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