How does one respond to such confusion?
Favor
You've effectively changed the definition to fit your theology. Forget that showing favoritism or choosing a favorite requires that you actually have a preference, or admire an attribute.
Christ Died at the Foundation
Again, you were proven wrong. It wasn't Christ that died from the foundation of the world, it was the names that were written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world. Easy passage to understand, yet you mince the translation to fit your doctrine.
Hebrew Promises
Then you go on to assert that the promises mentioned in Hebrews have nothing to do with salvic eternal life when the passage clearly states such!
Born Again
You insist that being
born again was something that occurred regularly in the OT, yet the OT never speaks of such a concept.
You've been proved wrong over and over, yet you continue to struggle along in your arguments.
Thus we see elsewhere that Jesus declared to the disciples before His death: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
Hmm...there is that pesky
future tense to deal with isn't there?
Thus when Jesus left the earth, He did not tell the disciples to wait until they were born again, but to wait until power had come upon them. Such power was then evidenced in the supernatural gifts.
Wait! According to you they
already had the spirit before Jesus left he earth. Hmmmmm.
You would have us believe that your expressing faith in Christ proves you are born again, but that the expression of faith in Christ by the disciples before Calvary, doesnt mean they were born again. Are not two things equal to each other, equal to the same thing?
Do the math, they aren't equal brother. The latter is missing a
variable. C-H-R-I-S-T R-E-D-E-E-M-E-D
And you would have us believe that Apollos, who knew only the baptism of John, was not born again, when the scripture declares he was "fervent in the spirit", which man, when met by Aquila and Priscilla, was simply taught more perfectly by them the gospel he already was a partaker of, and not instructed to be born again. For those baptised under John, were born again.
Ya know that
variable I talked about......its now in the equation.
Jesus is not referring to the evidences of his miracles, but to the fact that He and His disciples had seen things in the Spirit. Thus "We
testify that we have seen". This "seen" constituted the evidence that the disciples were born again, for it refers to seeing the kingdom in the Spirit.
You say that Christ, John and the disciples
saw the things of the Spirit, but miracles need not apply. Just what did they
see, RTE? Oh yeah, perhaps the supernatural gifts you mentioned above. Uh, hello?!
"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." So cried King David who according to you was not born again. But it is good that you who are born again can read the Psalms and learn all about the benefits of being born again, from the man who wrote them, who was a man after God's own heart, who had the Holy Spirit, who loved God with all His heart, whose throne's name is ascribed to Christ, but who was not born again. Down right amazing.
Funny, David speaks several times of going to Sheol when he dies. So do other notable OT 'saints'. But I guess their inspired words (via the HS) were wrong though, because RTE's theology demands they went to Heaven.
I guess if all that is needed to go to Heaven is the presence of God then all of Israel went to Heaven because God's presence dwelled with the entire nation of Israel. But wait, His presence left at the destruction of the first temple, so I guess only some of the nation of Israel were 'born again'. Congratulations on removing
Jesus the Christ from the whole eternal salvation thing.
If that is your best, I'd hate to see your worst. But rather, you evidence an ignorance of the integration of scripture, and a desire to deceitfully alter the grammar of the word. Thus you lack both knowledge, and integrity.
This coming from someone who claims: "
Firstly understand that I am expert in scripture, Eh.....don't refer me to scripture: I know more than you could poke a stick at."
Wow, and I thought Calvinists were all about not being
puffed up and giving all the glory to God. What a stellar example you set. I've had the opportunity to study Hebrew, Greek and am learning a bit of Aramaic from a local Rabbi and you're stuck on the KJV. If there is any scriptural shenanigans its coming from your side.
You are reading your own agenda into v12. Eisegesis at its best. The heavenly things that Christ said He had not spoken about, were not a reference to the coming of the Holy Spirit, but rather, the deeper things of the Spirit which cannot be uttered. They are akin to that which John saw in Revelation and which he could not describe, and which Paul saw when carried up to the third heaven, but dared not speak of.
What?!? I can't even in good conscience provide a response to such made-up interpretation. I guess the KJV has verse 12.5 where it explains what those heavenly things Jesus was referencing actually were.
If you insist on continuing to make things up to avoid admitting you are wrong, then I will no longer be able to dialogue with you.
This forum is about discussing the truth of scripture, not spamming the threads with someone's sermon or writing fairy tales to save face.
-A