McCains newest (possible) selection for running mate, what you think?

i think you're overly optomistic

ElsanRandiMom said:

i think you're overly optomistic

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kivi says: So what are my alternatives, be resigned and cynical that the same old, same old will always win in the end. Might as well go back to the monarchy we revolted against. OR should I bank on a new system that I see working, right in front of me, democracy at work not only with votes but with cash. Democracy requires eternal optimism, that people of good will and good hearts can be committed to make the system of 'by the people, of the people and for the people' work. Otherwise, just let those who have more get even more. And the rest of us can pull our forelock and say: "Yass, Masser; yass, Missey".

Wow can we say sidetracked?

(Psst, Kivi--good to know there's another Jewish lefty here. )

Yochanan

Torah613 said:

Wow can we say sidetracked?

(Psst, Kivi--good to know there's another Jewish lefty here. )

Yochanan

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kivi says:
They stole my party. I am the last of the Rockefeller, Hatfield, Matthias Republicans, the liberal, East Coast, international Republicans, in the tradition of Lincoln and TR, of Taft and Eisenhower and Anderson. And now they filled my party with narrowminded, hate filled bigots, single issue voters who, if they don't get their way, would tear the whole system down because they feel winning on their issue is more important than the democratic process. It is not. When I hear 'rally the base', what it brings to mind is the mob as it storms Frankenstein's castle. "Rally the base' has no compromise, no give and take, no 'lets fight out this policy issue and when we are done, lets go out for a beer and pretzels and some good jazz afterwards'. No civility. No tolerance, which is at the basis of all democratic reasoning and actions. The poster who said that 'abortion' was the make or break issue for him/her is the enemy of such civility. It has been quickly disappearing from our society for the last 40 years. And we are weaker and poorer for it.

ChavaK said:

Exactly. So you cannot say how he would have voted had he had
that information.

Of coure...for political reasons. Gotta kiss up and impress all
the liberal wackos who would vote for him. We don't know how
we would have voted had he had that information. Maybe he
would have joined his pal Hillary and voted "yes".

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kivi says: no, he knew the war was a fake and he stood up when all around him were getting in the running. His actions before the war and his actons after the start of the War are consistant. As for 'liberal wackos', that is has no basis in reality but is a great poisonousness throw away line from Limbaugh. The Democratic Party is the party of fiscal prudence, opposed to foreign adventures, pro-workng class, pro-women, pro-children. The Party is continuing the moral awakening of America from class dominance, racial inequality and greedy big business and job destructive un-restrictive international trade.

ChavaK:Now, you really don't know how much I make a year, do you?
You know how what percentage of the people in the country are
classified as "rich"? And what percentage of the taxes they already pay?
You should kiss the "rich" peoples feet because without them, who do
you think is going to be employing people? May the rich multiply and do
well!

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kivi says: I am always in favor of the get-up-and-go type of businessman/woman. But inherited wealth, generation to generation elites who use the government as their private job bank nausiate me. McCain who never has had a non-government job and has spent his entire life sucking off the government. Bush used his father's friends for every job he every had. Cut me a break, none of them build a successsful business.
And, no, I don't how much you make, but from your reaction, I got pretty close. And, if you are under $100,000, you're like me and like more than 90% of the working people in the US who got screwed by the Bush tax cut which only cut the rich folks taxes, not us working stiffs.

kivi says: The Bush/Cheney tax cuts steal from you by giving the benefits of the tax cuts mostly to the over $100,00 per year and having you, the under $100,000.
ChavaK: Didn't know you know what my income is.
Either way, above or below 100K, I'll take my chances and support myself
on my income, rather than rely on the government coming along to bail
me out every time I need something or every time I make a stupid decision.

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kivi says: That type of all or nothing thinking is hardly in touch with reality. You use the roads or fly airplanes or wear stuff made some place else then your next door neighbor? Then you use government built infra-structure. You got old parents? You use Social Security and Medicare and Mediaid. You got kids who go to college? Then you use student loans. You eat food or take medication or get sick? Then you use government inspection, research and health agencies. The list goes on and on and on. And if there are bailouts, its the rich S&Ls or the rich banks or the rich auto companies or the rich oil companies or the rich moratage companies or the rich insurance companies that get the rewards and the rest of us have the insurance companies cancel our earthquake or hurricane insurance.

Spending to pay for government is not socialism. Spending to pay for government is prudent economics. The Bush/Cheney gang, by refusing to pay for government programs now, are making you pay high taxes in the long run. And the huge reason for the deficiet is the War. And that is not socialism, that is war mongering.


ChavaK: And so is Obama. An empty suit who says all the right things
(as long as he is reading from a teleprompter) but has no
substance.

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kivi says: I would expect more from you. That is just Limbaugh venom spewing out. There is no facts there, just emotion; no evidence, just prejudice. Lincoln always read from a prepared script, did that make what he said any less important or wise? And Obama's substance is amazing. Care to over it, line by line? He is both detailed in his policy and programs and up-lifting in his principles. You are complaining that he is a great communicator, when a not-too-long-ago Republican President was praised for the very same ability. You really can't have it one way and then complain when that one way is being used by those who you might disagree with. Thought, I don't know if you really learned about his plans, you would be so opposed to them. They are really just a desire to make government run for the people rather than for the special interests and rich elites. End the War; re-deploy more wisely our limited military and diplomatic resources; make government pay for itself rather than use deficiet financing; make sure those who need government resources get them rather then have those resources sent to those who need them the least; make us energy independent; stop out-sourcing jobs and industry and bring fair back into free trade; have a justice system that works for both the victim and civil rights; bring justice to our immigration problems; get the government out of the private lives of its citizens; re-awaken American values of fair play, civil rights for all, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Its a start to re-capturing America from the thieves that stole it 8 years ago.

ElsanRandiMom said:

i think we should shoot the lot of the candidates and start over.

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Ahh...the Revolution!!!.....that's my kind of thinking.

McCain could get a hundred Jews to run with him...but I'd still never, ever vote for a puppet of Big Money. But, to his credit, at least he didn't sign PNAC.

ContraMundum said:

Ahh...the Revolution!!!.....that's my kind of thinking.

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here here.

Yochanan

ContraMundum said:

McCain could get a hundred Jews to run with him...but I'd still never, ever vote for a puppet of Big Money. But, to his credit, at least he didn't sign PNAC.

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IMHO, the republican party seems bent on dividing Israel. My question is, is this McCain's position? and if so, how can any self respecting Jew run with him.

I'm not saying I'm in favor of Obama. I am saying that we need to forget the labels of republican and democrat, or Libertarian and Independent, and simply look at the issues. We all have issues that are more or less important to us, so we need to take the issues we personally care about and do the research.

Only when we have deposited an informed ballot will we have fulfilled the duty imposed upon us by democracy and gain the right to complain about the government.

Nothing kills me more than the people who complain who don't even vote, or worse simply vote for someone because their party label is right.

Yochanan

Lulav said:

John McCain considers Jewish running mate

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that's neat, i didn't know Cantor is jewish.

Torah613 said:

IMHO, the republican party seems bent on dividing Israel. My question is, is this McCain's position? and if so, how can any self respecting Jew run with him.



Yochanan

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I disagree, and even the president has made it clear that he will defend Israel.

I think it would be good to have a jewish VP.

What are the odds? Can't be favorable for him i'd imagine.

Torah613 said:

IMHO, the republican party seems bent on dividing Israel. My question is, is this McCain's position?
Yochanan

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My question is what is Obama's position on Israel? He appears to have done a lot of kissing up to her enemies, and I've yet to see any remotely pro-Israel comment attributed to him.

Lulav said:

So can we get back to the subject of the running mate, instead of the party choices?

I have read through this thread and haven't found anything posted about this man.

I would like to see some 'opinions' as to what you think having a Jew in the white house would mean, for us and for Israel?

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This is my opinion, Cantor should not be on the ticket. Why?

Because no Jew should, if at all humanly possible, live anywhere except Israel.

Yochanan

Wags said:

My question is what is Obama's position on Israel? He appears to have done a lot of kissing up to her enemies, and I've yet to see any remotely pro-Israel comment attributed to him.

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This is an excellent point. Somethign the papers didn't report on that I know as a local;

For the 60th aniversary of when Truman recognized Israel, Obama was speaking at the Truman museum. I don't know what was said, but I do know the Israeli representative got up and walked out.

Yochanan

Torah613 said:

This is an excellent point. Somethign the papers didn't report on that I know as a local;

For the 60th aniversary of when Truman recognized Israel, Obama was speaking at the Truman museum. I don't know what was said, but I do know the Israeli representative got up and walked out.

Yochanan

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kivi asks: Could you link us to the article that explains what happened at the Truman museum. I went goggling and couldn't find anything. Except that he had by-passed the Museum and the directors were 'miffed'.

A little earlier this year I saw Obama's speech to the AIPAC in Washington. He hit all the high notes that Jews expect from the political canidates. There wasn't anything in the speech to rise concerns. His voting record is pro-Israel. He has a long and positive history with AIPAC. As much as possible, he is on track. Is that is the only thing he needs to be vetted on, he passes that text.

links for Obama's AIPAC speech on March 2, 2008

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/03/obamas_aipac_speech_text_as_pr.html

Kivi, I know this sounds silly, but it wasn't reported as most everyone saw it as not noteworthy. This was when Hillary was still looking the stronger of the two.

However, at the time I lived within 30 mins of the Truman Museum.

Yochanan

as a local you hear alot more about such occurances.

Personally, he doesn't meet my standards. I thought hillary was too rightwing, but thats beside the point. We have derailed this thread long enough.

Yochanan