Okay, what is so terribly wrong with ecumenism?

Most of it has to do with the dispensationalist mindset, Sarah. The belief is that the Catholic Church is going to be the core of the "future one-world religion" headed by the Antichrist, and the Church's ecumenical initiative is the forerunner of that.

Ergo, among some people, they avoid any type of ecumenical gathering whatsoever, since this would involve them in the Antichrist's satanic system, and they'd come away from a prayer meeting with "666" stamped across their foreheads, because some Catholics might have been present. "Come out of them, O ye my people", and all that sort of thing.

If you don't believe in dispensationalism, you won't have too much of a problem with ecumenism. If you do believe in dispensationalism, you'll avoid Catholics and anything related to them like the plague, lest you suffer their fate in the burning lake of sulphur.

And that's the problem with ecumenism.

IMHO.

FWIW.

I believe why some people see it "of Satan" is because of how they interpret the Book of Revelation. To them the Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon and the Pope is the false prophet if not the anti-Christ himself. Ergo, to associate with the Catholic Church is to buy into the One World Religion and lose your chance of being raptured.

[sarcasm]This is why I think instead of just burning Bibles in the vernacular, the Church should have just destroyed every copy of the Bible except for those kept under lock and key in the Vatican. Why they never did that and allowed people to get their hands on this book is beyond me, it's almost as if they wanted people to actually read it.[/sarcasm]

Yes, I am being facetious here.

I hope no one minds me jumping in on this thread. I'm not of the Catholic Faith however I am a Christian.

I believe that after the resurrection, when the New Heaven and New Earth has been established and God dwells among His people we are going to be in for a few surprises. We're going to be amongst people that some of us didn't think would be there and we're going to be missing a few people that we thought would be there.

Jesus didn't come to set up the Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, etc. He came to call people to him so that we would be unified.

John 17:20-23 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

The problem isn't in what the Christ originally setup - that's perfect. The problem is we can't leave well enough alone and we allow our opinions/traditions, etc., to override and take the place of Jesus established through his own work and the work of the apostles via the Holy Spirit.

Just one group isn't going to be saved alone - I believe that those who will be saved will all be Christians - it just depends on where you congregate on whether you are a Catholic Christian, a Protestant Christian, a Baptist Christian, a non-Denominational Christian, etc.

Having said all of that, it is encumbent that if we do not follow the essential Christian doctrines - then we end up following false doctrine and we end up finding ourselves in a lost relationship between ourselves and Christ. Most Chirstians - and Christian faiths - agree upon the essential doctrines, the problem for division among the body is that we allow disagreements upon the non-essentials to rule the day. This should not be allowed and it imperitive that we recognize this and do something to change our thinking and how we deal with each other.

St. Augustine said - "In essentials - unity; In non-essentials - liberty; In all things - charity."

More and more I've struggled and tried to make this my personal motto, without forgetting I Corinthians 13. If this is not done in love - it's all worthless.

in Christ -
shawn

Lifted this from another board which shall go nameless but who's initials are "Rapture Ready" (If I have violated posting policy please inform me and I shall delete this reference) about the mindset of some of these people:

To place the quote in context, I was responding to a post which called the Catholic Church the "Roman Universal Religion" (the latest catch phrase), to which I responded:


[E]ither Catholics raise themselves to elite status (all non-Catholics are condemned to hell) or we're wallowing in the mud with all the other pigs (obviously by my rhetoric I'm one of the elitists ) by starting this "universal religion". So... choose your favorite criticism and stick to it.


To which the reply was:

Well it would not make sense unless one realizes that it is a ruse, A TROJAN HORSE, to deceive..... The entire ecumenical effort is just an effort to "undo" the Reformation. The (R)CC makes clear that substantiallly she still believes that salvation is through her. But she puts on other clothes to convince the unsuspecting that she really isn't that far off from the "wayward" others.

It seems really crystal to me.

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Hrm. If I wasn't already on my second warning, I'd simply respond: Proverbs 17:28, but I'm afraid quoting Scripture would get me banned.

To Sarah Magdalene:

What makes the bludgeoning excruciatingly painful is that the weapon of choice is a Bible. The very same Bible given to all by the Catholic Church.

::::


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Hi guys I hope you don't mind another non-Catholic chiming in with his thoughts.

What I absolutely cannot accept is Christendom coming together with the likes of Mormonism, Wicca, Islam, and so on. If you talk of me a Southern Baptist (oh my!) coming together in fellowship with someone like Wols or KC, then that is alright.

While I do disagree strongly with certain Catholic teachings, I will not say they are not Christians either. Of course I could tell you alot of Baptists who are heathens as well.

And who knows who the one world religion will be. Does that really matter to us Chrsitians? And when we are in heaven, what will it matter if you believe in prayers to Mary or a rapture or whatever? Nothing really.

I consider you all my brothers and sisters and I hope you think of me the same. With all due respect, I do not believe we are "seperated brethren". I love everyone!


Jeff

Ecumenism as a way around the reformation.

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Hmmm - I for one don't hold to this viewpoint and I consider myself a reformationist. Reformation in getting back to the original 1st century church in the sense that they didn't teach different denominations. They didn't believe in the division of the church but in the church with it's different talents (body parts) working together as one and becoming the body of Christ on earth. In my view - Baptists are good in certain areas of teaching and poorer in others, likewise Protestants are the same as well as several other denominations and non-denominations. I believe that to maximize our outreach to the world, we should use our strengths and rely on each other in our particular weaknesses.

I fail to see why we are not able to fellowship with one another and not become petty and dogmatic in our views - but then again, when we allow tradition and emotions to become our doctrine, then we typically reach an empasse and splits occur. It's extremely devasting to Christians when there is infighting and splits. I heard a minister speak last month on a congregation he was at for 10 years. It had split from another church 25 years prior and the wounds were still deep because the people just wouldn't let the issues die. How can we win souls to Christ and love each other as brothers and sisters in Christ when we can't even get along on the non-essentials.

Sometimes I fear that there is no hope for us - I pray that I'm wrong.

in Christ -
shawn

Originally posted by snw7
The problem isn't in what the Christ originally setup - that's perfect. The problem is we can't leave well enough alone and we allow our opinions/traditions, etc., to override and take the place of Jesus established through his own work and the work of the apostles via the Holy Spirit.

Just one group isn't going to be saved alone - I believe that those who will be saved will all be Christians - it just depends on where you congregate on whether you are a Catholic Christian, a Protestant Christian, a Baptist Christian, a non-Denominational Christian, etc.

Having said all of that, it is encumbent that if we do not follow the essential Christian doctrines - then we end up following false doctrine and we end up finding ourselves in a lost relationship between ourselves and Christ. Most Chirstians - and Christian faiths - agree upon the essential doctrines, the problem for division among the body is that we allow disagreements upon the non-essentials to rule the day. This should not be allowed and it imperitive that we recognize this and do something to change our thinking and how we deal with each other.

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Excellent post and explanation.

I believe that non-Catholic Christians see Catholics as "watering down" Scripture, giving the impression that the Catholic Church accepts a different way to God and salvation other than Christ. I cannot agree with the Catholic Church's stance that Islam and Christianity share the same God. The deny the deity of Christ and therefore cannot have the same God as Christianity. So I see their point.

It's sad that we build walls to keep others out and isolate ourselves to each other

There are many teachings which is as best trivial but then we need to believe and have faith at the core subject right?

These people who believe that the harlot is the catholic church is reading and believing too much chick publications

I love you guys and even though I'm not catholic, I support you all the way.

God bless and peace be with you always!!!!