Creationism VS Public schools

MoonLancer · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
This thread is dying by nothing but "red haring" questions where you fail to counter my points. Why would I argue my ability to reason and understand scientific knowledge with someone who dares find no common ground anymore and judge what I do for a living. I'm trying to show that I have a high respect for the field of science and that I actually work in the science field for the military. Would you like me to mash you on meteorological physics or something more simple like cloud formation? Sound reasoning and maturity have been traded into emotional rebuttal and rude jargon. Besides the folks who were kind enough to share their scientific reasoning with me I sense have already left the board. Your disrespect has been clearly spoken.

indeed it has, But notice you still have not stated one thing in your job you use science for, so how is that an answer to "you don't know what a theory is". you instead respond "I work for the army as using computers that deal with meteorology". IE i contend its a red herring. And now your trying to red herring your red herring.

How can any of us have common ground with you in regards to science if you don't know what a theory is? You can be a tekke, but that doesn't mean you know science. you might even be able to use methods scientists came up with in your weather job, but you don't actually know science. I can use a computer, but i couldn't tell you how it works.

plindboe · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
Would you like me to mash you on meteorological physics or something more simple like cloud formation?

Cloud formation is a fairytale! God forms clouds, not your atheistic science! Cloud formation violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics! Cloud formation doesn't explain how the first cloud came about! You can't produce a cloud in the lab! Anyone who believes that stuff is insane!

*covers ears* Lalalala, I can't hear you!

:pray:

(Sounds familiar, doesn't it?)

flatworm · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
This thread is dying by nothing but "red haring" questions where you fail to counter my points.

I think Moonlancer has hit the nail on the head. Your "points" have been answered, but you find reasons to ignore the answers by complaining about irrelevant things. In fact you haven't really presented any kind of argument for your position since post #161. Therefore these digressions are rightly called "red herrings".

You have not acknowledged the evidence pointed out for our common ancestry with all living things. You have not acknowledged that the origin of life itself need not be explained for evolution to be valid. Neither have you justified the double standard you apply in rejecting evolution because scientists have never created cellular life from scratch while accepting a belief in a creator-god having never seen a god create life.

Aceofspades77 · Jul 16, 2008

The wolves have come out to the slaughter.

Psudopod · Jul 16, 2008

The wolves have come out to the slaughter.

Now, you're doing yourself no favours here. People aren't slaughtering you. No one's attacking you. They are just critising your ideas.

Tomk80 · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
The wolves have come out to the slaughter.

Are you actually going to address some of the criticisms raised, or are you just going to whine about the fact that people criticize you?

Vene · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
The wolves have come out to the slaughter.

Slaughter? Not a chance. I've been grilled harder in organic chemistry than what you're experiencing. You have to have thick skin to do science. You have to be unattached to your ideas. You have to be able to accept criticism without getting angry. This is nothing.

Tomk80 · Jul 16, 2008

Vene said:
Slaughter? Not a chance. I've been grilled harder in organic chemistry than what you're experiencing. You have to have thick skin to do science. You have to be unattached to your ideas. You have to be able to accept criticism without getting angry. This is nothing.

True. Within my own department discussions can be harder than they are here. A lot harder. And there you don't have the option of sidetracking the discussion by raising one topic after another.

Lucretius · Jul 16, 2008

Yeah, I'll just add to say that in my math courses now (I do upper-divisional proofs classes these days) my professor is brutal if I mess anything up. And I do these proofs in front of the class so it's even worse!

My physics courses are not as cruel but still, people can be harsh in these fields. It's just the way things go. Try doing your doctoral thesis, etc. and see if you think all the professors are also just red herring-ing you. They'll be a lot less kind to your ideas than we are being here!

Split Rock · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
The wolves have come out to the slaughter.

I would have thought someone used to miltary training would have a thicker skin. C'mon, Aceofspades.... why won't you just answer my questions? Is it that you are uncomfortable with the implications of your own answers?

MoonLancer · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
The wolves have come out to the slaughter.

Another red herring. Its pretty hard to convince others that you have looked at evolution objectively and found it to be wrong when you don't even know what a theory is.

Aceofspades77 · Jul 16, 2008

A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science
1) Dr. Raymond Damadian - inventor of MRI device

2) Dr. Raymond Jones - CSIRO Gold Medal, detoxified Leucaena for livestock
consumption

3) Dr. Keith Wanser - 48 published papers, seven U.S. patents
(Professor of Physics, Cal State Fullerton)

4) Dr. Russell Humphreys - successful planetary magnetic predictions
(nuclear physicist, Sandia National Laboratories )

5) Dr. Kurt Wise - Ph.D. in paleontology under Stephen J. Gould at Harvard

6) Jules H. Poirier - designer of radar FM altimeter on Apollo Lunar
Landing Module

7) Dr. Sinaseli Tshibwabwa - discovered 7 new species of fish in the Congo

8) Dr. Saami Shaibani - "International Expert" by the US Depts of Labor and
Justice. 100 published articles (B.A. (Hons), M.A., M.Sc., D.Phil, a
physics professor and researcher)

1) (ID) Dr. Henry F. Schaefer III - five-time Nobel nominee
(professor of chemistry at the University of Georgia)

2) (ID) Dr. William S. Harris - $3.5 million in research grants, over 70
scientific papers, Director of the Lipoprotein Research Laboratory at Saint
Luke’s Hospital. Chair in Metabolism and Vascular Biology and is a
Professor of Medicine at the University of Missouri.

Evolution is basically a religious philosophy

Skaloop · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science
1) Dr. Raymond Damadian - inventor of MRI device

2) Dr. Raymond Jones - CSIRO Gold Medal, detoxified Leucaena for livestock
consumption

3) Dr. Keith Wanser - 48 published papers, seven U.S. patents
(Professor of Physics, Cal State Fullerton)

4) Dr. Russell Humphreys - successful planetary magnetic predictions
(nuclear physicist, Sandia National Laboratories )

5) Dr. Kurt Wise - Ph.D. in paleontology under Stephen J. Gould at Harvard

6) Jules H. Poirier - designer of radar FM altimeter on Apollo Lunar
Landing Module

7) Dr. Sinaseli Tshibwabwa - discovered 7 new species of fish in the Congo

8) Dr. Saami Shaibani - "International Expert" by the US Depts of Labor and
Justice. 100 published articles (B.A. (Hons), M.A., M.Sc., D.Phil, a
physics professor and researcher)

1) (ID) Dr. Henry F. Schaefer III - five-time Nobel nominee
(professor of chemistry at the University of Georgia)

2) (ID) Dr. William S. Harris - $3.5 million in research grants, over 70
scientific papers, Director of the Lipoprotein Research Laboratory at Saint
Lukes Hospital. Chair in Metabolism and Vascular Biology and is a
Professor of Medicine at the University of Missouri.

Evolution is basically a religious philosophy

And how many of them used creation as described in the Bible to make those contributions? Nobody here is saying that a Creationist can't be a good scientist. What we are saying is that nobody uses Creationism to make important discoveries. Dr. Tshibwabwa did not discover new species by interpreting Genesis; he did it based on evolutionary biology.

TheManeki · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
Evolution is basically a religious philosophy

I don't know...evolution has a pretty good track record of incorporating new ideas and correcting old ones, which is par for the course for science. Religion, on the other hand, tends to reject new ideas and has a hard time admitting its mistaken ones, let alone learning from them.

MasterOfKrikkit · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science

Changing the subject are we? You start off with the 2LoT, which people discuss. When asked if you have been sufficiently answered, you ignore them. Then you pull various PRATTtastic crap like equivocating with the word "theory". Then you whine when the "wolves" rip that to shreds. And now a change of topic.

Genuine question: did you honestly come here to learn or was that just a veneer of genuine curiosity so that you could peddle more tired anti-evolution arguments?

Anyone else here sick of this tactic? I've seen it before and I find it really annoying, because well-meaning people invest their time in answering the questions carefully and thoughtfully, only to have it thrown in their face.

Oh, and Ace: Google/wikisearch project Steve sometime. Your list impresses me about as much as a farting drosophila melanogaster.

MoonLancer · Jul 16, 2008

My list is bigger. its SOOOO big that it wont fit in a post. (see above)

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/3697_the_list_2_16_2003.asp

They have two things in common. They are all scientists who all agree that evolution is a viable scientific theory, and they all have the first name Steve.

Now please stop with your red herrings. How can you objectively judge evolution when you don't know what a theory is?

Aceofspades77 · Jul 16, 2008

MasterOfKrikkit said:
Changing the subject are we? You start off with the 2LoT, which people discuss. When asked if you have been sufficiently answered, you ignore them. Then you pull various PRATTtastic crap like equivocating with the word "theory". Then you whine when the "wolves" rip that to shreds. And now a change of topic.

Genuine question: did you honestly come here to learn or was that just a veneer of genuine curiosity so that you could peddle more tired anti-evolution arguments?

Anyone else here sick of this tactic? I've seen it before and I find it really annoying, because well-meaning people invest their time in answering the questions carefully and thoughtfully, only to have it thrown in their face.

Oh, and Ace: Google/wikisearch project Steve sometime. Your list impresses me about as much as a farting drosophila melanogaster.

Why are you so T.O'd you have not even been apart of this thread lately. And I'm answering a least one of my 15 or so critics here being that I'm the only creationist supporter here.

Split Rock · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science
1) Dr. Raymond Damadian - inventor of MRI device

2) Dr. Raymond Jones - CSIRO Gold Medal, detoxified Leucaena for livestock
consumption

3) Dr. Keith Wanser - 48 published papers, seven U.S. patents
(Professor of Physics, Cal State Fullerton)

4) Dr. Russell Humphreys - successful planetary magnetic predictions
(nuclear physicist, Sandia National Laboratories )

5) Dr. Kurt Wise - Ph.D. in paleontology under Stephen J. Gould at Harvard

6) Jules H. Poirier - designer of radar FM altimeter on Apollo Lunar
Landing Module

7) Dr. Sinaseli Tshibwabwa - discovered 7 new species of fish in the Congo

8) Dr. Saami Shaibani - "International Expert" by the US Depts of Labor and
Justice. 100 published articles (B.A. (Hons), M.A., M.Sc., D.Phil, a
physics professor and researcher)

1) (ID) Dr. Henry F. Schaefer III - five-time Nobel nominee
(professor of chemistry at the University of Georgia)

2) (ID) Dr. William S. Harris - $3.5 million in research grants, over 70
scientific papers, Director of the Lipoprotein Research Laboratory at Saint
Lukes Hospital. Chair in Metabolism and Vascular Biology and is a
Professor of Medicine at the University of Missouri.

Evolution is basically a religious philosophy

Point #1: As Scaloop already mentioned, none of these people used Creation Science to do any of their work. I would assume, however, that those who have done scientific research do understand what a theory is.

Point#2: How do these list of names and their accomplishments help you come to the very wrong conclusion that evolution is "basically a religious philosophy?"

The_Master · Jul 16, 2008

MasterOfKrikkit said:
..snip...

Anyone else here sick of this tactic? I've seen it before and I find it really annoying, because well-meaning people invest their time in answering the questions carefully and thoughtfully, only to have it thrown in their face.
...snip....

Yes.

Pete Harcoff · Jul 16, 2008

Aceofspades77 said:
A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science

So? None of them used creationism to do it.

Evolution is basically a religious philosophy

So how to do you explain the fact that it is applied in numerous fields of biology? My still favorite example is its use in comparative genomics where common descent itself is applied in genomic comparisons of organisms. And this is stuff being applied both contemporary medical and agricultural research in both public and private sectors.

Examples like this proves evolution isn't a religious philosophy. It's a real world science. Pretending otherwise doesn't change anything.

Creationism VS Public schools

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