Of course, beginning Greek grammars would not have all of the exceptions to the rule. That would be a lot of stuff to cover! The quote I posted is from a very advanced source!
Oh, and kai doesn't always mean a simple "and" either.!
I am still investiagating your supposed exception to this rule. I think you would agree that if indeed there are a few instances where this Greek rule does not apply there has to be a reason for it. I want you to explain to me what in this verse in Mark 16:16 justifies an exception to the Greek rule of Aorist Participles must take place before the main verb?
By the way I know that the word kai does'nt always simply mean "and" but in this verse it does and regardless of that point you cant deny that this cord conj causes both "belive" and "baptized" to be equal with one another and tied to one another.
And yet to "not be saved" you merely have to 'not believe."
Belief is the first step in salvation. If you dont belive you are never going to do the other things that save you. If you dont belive you would not be interested in what the rest of Gods word says. To "not belive" is not the ONLY thing that will keep you from being saved. Notice in this next verse how these people belived but would not confess him Would they be saved?
KJV John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
If you do not obey the word of God you will not be saved.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Luke tells us that if we do not repent we will perish. KJV Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
So do not try and portray the scriptures as teaching that ONLY lack of belife condemns someone.
It's fairly simple. They are to make disciples BEFORE baptizing.
19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
The wore "Go" is an aorist participle. Which the action of this occurs before the main verb "make disciples". This is easily apparent as the disciples must first "go" before disciples can be made. "Go" however is not grammatically a part of makeing disciples. Notice there is no noun. The noun is found in the main verb itself. Thus "you" (2 person, plural) "make disciples". "Make disciples" is in the imperative mood. The imperative mood is used in commands (Machen p 180.) The force of Christs words are taht of a command to make disciples. "Make disciples" is the main verb because it is that which Jesus wants them (and us) to accomplish.
The fact that "make disciples" is aorist tells us that the action of making disciples has not started at the time of Christs command. Summers says that the aorist imperative has to do with the action which has not yet started" (p112). Therefore, literally Jesus is saying "Go, start making disciples."
Now lets examine how the were to make disciples. We we now look at the 2 participles baptizing and teaching. First we must observe that these are present participles which indicate action taking place at the same time as the main verb. Here a few quotes on this point.
The present participle, therefore, is used if the action denoted by the participle is represented as taking place at the same time as the action denoted by the leading verb, no matter wheather the action denoted by teh leading verb is past, present, or future (Machen, P 106)
The time of action in participles is indicated in the relation of the action of the participle to the action of the main verb... The present participle indicates action which is conntemporaneous (at the same time) with the action of the main verb (Summers p 89-90)
What we have, then, is the participles (necessary to the completion of the action of the main verb) occurring at the same time as that of the main verb. Disciples are made while the apostles (and other Christians) are baptizing and teaching. Does this mean that Jesus is saying that a person is a "disciple" before baptism? NO. I might say "Go make a house, hammering and sawing." Hammering and sawing occur at the same time the house is being made. But the house is not a completed house until the hammering and sawing have been completed. In the same way "baptizing them" and "teaching them" occur at the same time as "make disciples" But a person is not a disciple until both "baptizing" and "teaching them" are completed. As Hanna well notes, Baptizing and teaching are modal participles describing the manner in which disciples are made. (p58)
and so it is incorrect to say (as many do) that first diciples are made, then they are baptized, and finally are taught to observe the commandments of Christ. It is also improper (based on this passage alone) to say "Teach them, baptize them, and then teach them some more!." So we must Go and make diciples, HOW by baptizing and teaching them. This occurs at the same time as making disciples. This simply means that "making disciples" consist of a process of "baptizing" and "teaching" which are commands.
Further more the baptizing here is talking about water baptism and not HS baptism because this baptism was to be adminstered by man. As Philp did to the Enuch in Acts 8. Not to mention HS baptism can not be done by a man. Here baptism is commanded and HS baptism was a promise and never a command. So the great commision as it is called is to be done until the end of time and when we are taught and are baptized in the name of the father, son, HS we are made disciples and we can not enter into that realationship as being a disciple until we are both taught and baptized. You will obseve when some one is baptized in the name of Jesus that the are being baptized in water by his authorty and even more than than that "in the name of" signifies to come into the possession of another (Arndt & Gingrich, p. 575). Hence, at the point of baptism, one enters a special relationship with the divine Godhead. One does not enjoy this relationship before baptism, as many denominationalists allege.
I will stop here for now Scott. I will post more latter in regards to your post.
cougan