- Jan 24, 2005
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originally posted by rhyddid_rose
If God is indeed a perfect moral being, He will be offended, since you are not choosing to be perfect in your humanity as I believe that He created you with. My premise is that God made man perfect/complete--without sin, as alluded to in the OT in Genesis. Consequently, we are to be perfect. To fall short of perfection, is to fall short of God's standards, which is the essence of what sin is. Failing to keep God's standards is not trivial, no more than it would be of any other kind of perfect standard, even in the world we live in. Just imagine a hospital allowing doctors to perform very delicate surgeries in a less-than clean enviornment. Wouldn't that offend you, especially if you were the patient? If you answer yes, then you can begin to understand how God views spiritual imperfection/sin.
Yes, we can agree on that, I included offend, but why would we allow ourselves to offend in the first place if we could prevent it? That would seem rather silly to do something bad while knowing that we shouldn't do it. Why can't we prevent ourselves every time from doing it? Even more importantly, why would we even think of doing it? These are questions that make sense in context of sin. There is some cause and effect that is not completely dependent upon our wills. What explains it?
My question would be, "How do we know what good and evil are in order to choose them? What would make something evil or good? Who sets the bench mark whereby each person can agree on the same things as evil? Just as you see that there are consequences for our behaviours--physical/metaphysical, so are there spiritual laws that God imposed that also have consequences for our spiritual imperfect state--sin.
Who sets the standards of what is ethical/moral? You? Others? or perhaps God? Exactly why should you try to be ethical and moral? If you say that it is a standard, then you must wonder why should you even care to attempt. Why not just live as you please?
The fact is that even on our best day (choose 1 that you think is your best), we are still imperfect beings. There is nothing on your own that you can do to change that even if you dedicate your entire day to postive thinking and purposely attempting to do what is right in your mind.
I believe that I understand what you are saying as well. I agree that if we understood our spiritual nature ( I don't know if I would call it a dimension), we would make us better. The problem that i have with that is that being better is still not the same as being perfect as I believe God made man at his creation.
Hail the Aesir; Hail the Vanir,
Rhyddid Rose Rhys
In what ways is it illogical? Just curious.
I know that you will have responses to my post, I expect you to post them; but, after your post, we can discuss this either in a new thread or by PM, that is, only if you would like. I don't want to go any further off topic in this thread than we already have.
Thank you for your input and insight. I appreciate it very much.
Duly noted! You are correct in that whenever people get together, they will almost always be some kind of disagreement. That's basic human ego at work, LOL!
Ego is part of it, but where does this ego come from is a greater question. I believe that I know that answer. It is call sin--spiritual ineptness of God's fallen creation. I know that you don't believe that, but that is OK.
I dont agree that all man's problems are due to 'sin'. I dont believe in sin, because I dont believe I can offend the Eternal, the Source of Life, with my puny actions.
If God is indeed a perfect moral being, He will be offended, since you are not choosing to be perfect in your humanity as I believe that He created you with. My premise is that God made man perfect/complete--without sin, as alluded to in the OT in Genesis. Consequently, we are to be perfect. To fall short of perfection, is to fall short of God's standards, which is the essence of what sin is. Failing to keep God's standards is not trivial, no more than it would be of any other kind of perfect standard, even in the world we live in. Just imagine a hospital allowing doctors to perform very delicate surgeries in a less-than clean enviornment. Wouldn't that offend you, especially if you were the patient? If you answer yes, then you can begin to understand how God views spiritual imperfection/sin.
I can and do offend other humans. Whenever I do that, I ask for forgiveness and attempt to make amends. I resolved not to repeat it and learn from my mistakes.
Yes, we can agree on that, I included offend, but why would we allow ourselves to offend in the first place if we could prevent it? That would seem rather silly to do something bad while knowing that we shouldn't do it. Why can't we prevent ourselves every time from doing it? Even more importantly, why would we even think of doing it? These are questions that make sense in context of sin. There is some cause and effect that is not completely dependent upon our wills. What explains it?
I believe in personal responsibility for one's actions and that there are consequences to your behaviours. I believe each one of us has to choose good or evil; chaos or order.
My question would be, "How do we know what good and evil are in order to choose them? What would make something evil or good? Who sets the bench mark whereby each person can agree on the same things as evil? Just as you see that there are consequences for our behaviours--physical/metaphysical, so are there spiritual laws that God imposed that also have consequences for our spiritual imperfect state--sin.
Of course, humans are imperfect. We aren't gods; we are mortal. We are dying from the minute we are born as entropy affects us as the rest of creation. That doesn't give us an excuse to NOT live an ethical and moral life.
Who sets the standards of what is ethical/moral? You? Others? or perhaps God? Exactly why should you try to be ethical and moral? If you say that it is a standard, then you must wonder why should you even care to attempt. Why not just live as you please?
The fact is that even on our best day (choose 1 that you think is your best), we are still imperfect beings. There is nothing on your own that you can do to change that even if you dedicate your entire day to postive thinking and purposely attempting to do what is right in your mind.
Peaceful Soul, I'm not a Christian; my path is Asatru. I dont follow Jesus nor the bible, but I understand what you're saying. I also believe that humans have a spiritual dimension and when that is understood and fulfilled, it makes for a better person.
I believe that I understand what you are saying as well. I agree that if we understood our spiritual nature ( I don't know if I would call it a dimension), we would make us better. The problem that i have with that is that being better is still not the same as being perfect as I believe God made man at his creation.
PS: I still believe that monotheism is illogical, no offence meant.
Hail the Aesir; Hail the Vanir,
Rhyddid Rose Rhys
I know that you will have responses to my post, I expect you to post them; but, after your post, we can discuss this either in a new thread or by PM, that is, only if you would like. I don't want to go any further off topic in this thread than we already have.
Thank you for your input and insight. I appreciate it very much.