My Embedded Age Challenge

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corvus_corax

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I speak this man into existence ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08 with a note in his pocket saying I spoke this man into existence ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08.

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Show this to be an act of deception, and show the intent to deceive, without being wrong.​
As written, no your scenario shows no apparent deception.
Of course, your scenario, if it's meant to be some kind of metaphor for the Creation described (and literally interpreted) in Genesis, fails to address many many points, of which I'm sure you are quite aware.
 
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AV1611VET

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Even without answering this, a certain intention to deceive can be understood...
What on earth does this mean?

"A certain intention to deceive can be understood..."?

You mean, misunderstood?
 
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AV1611VET

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As written, no your scenario shows no apparent deception...
Okay, guys, no offense --- I stopped right here. I'll just do you all a favor and ask for this thread to be shut down.

Thanks for --- well --- thanks for trying.
 
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corvus_corax

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Okay, guys, no offense --- I stopped right here. I'll just do you all a favor and ask for this thread to be shut down.

Thanks for --- well --- thanks for trying.
Hmmm
You get a direct answer from me (without adding to or subtracting from your "challenge"), and you don't like it?

You might want to go back and re-read my response
I said "As written..." IOW, not adding to or taking away anything from your OP
"...your scenario shows no apparent deception". IOW, I don't perceive any deception.


Now, if you can't take a straightforward and direct answer such as that, then why do you even bother posting your 'challenges' at all?
 
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AV1611VET

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... I don't perceive any deception.
I said show deception* or kindly keep your comments to yourself --- period.

*
OP said:
Show this to be an act of deception, and show the intent to deceive, without being wrong.
 
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corvus_corax

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I said show deception* or kindly keep your comments to yourself --- period.

*
Oh, Okay, sorry
People who actually see no deception in your OP should simply keep their comments off this thread, right? This thread is only for people who somehow see deception in your OP. Got it.
Sorry for my input
 
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Skaloop

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I speak this man into existence ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08 with a note in his pocket saying I spoke this man into existence ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08.

images


Show this to be an act of deception, and show the intent to deceive, without being wrong.

Did you create the note ex nihilo as well? And are we reading the note right away, or several thousand years after it was written?

Here's a challenge for you. I take a regular old man, born of a woman and having lived part of his life. I put a note in his pocket saying I created him ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08. Show any reason why anyone should believe the note.
 
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AV1611VET

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Oh, Okay, sorry
People who actually see no deception in your OP should simply keep their comments off this thread, right?
I wish they would --- although they have a right to comment. But their comments don't even address the OP.
This thread is only for people who somehow see deception in your OP.
Absolutely.
 
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MasterOfKrikkit

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Show this to be an act of deception, and show the intent to deceive, without being wrong.

Huh? What do you mean "without being wrong"? Are you implying that you had no intent to deceive when you created the man?

Yes, yes, I know I'm asking another question. Before you get cranky, have you considered the possibility that your "challenge" questions aren't as clear as you want them to be? You seem to be fishing for a specific response (or lack thereof, whereby you can claim to have pwned everyone); in that case, you need to give clearer questions. I've written many exam questions -- take it from me that if 20 people raise their hands and ask for clarification, the fault isn't with the students. It's no biggie. It's hard to write a perfect question to illicit the response you want (without giving the answer in the question). But don't get pi$$y at people who are trying to make sense of your question when they ask for clarification. Just my $0.02 as a teacher.
 
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AV1611VET

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Before you get cranky, have you considered the possibility that your "challenge" questions aren't as clear as you want them to be?
No, I haven't.

Since you guys are such "experts" on showing God to be a deceiver, and my Embedded Age explanation to be wrong, I thought this little challenge would be a snap for you to answer.

Apparently you guys aren't half the "experts" you think you are.

Anyone can simply say my Embedded Age is wrong because that would make God a deceiver; but proving it is something else though --- isn't it?

:)
 
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AV1611VET

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This is of course, you think the world looks millions of years old to begin with, right? :D
Actually, I go by faith in science that this earth is as old as they say it is. I'll gladly acquiesce though if shown otherwise.
 
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lawtonfogle

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I can't answer this without adding to your challenge, so I suspect you will just dismiss my answer.

Anyway.

If you create this man with no memories, and a body that showed no evidence of disease, or accident, so their was no history to it, then there is no deception and no intent to decieve that I can see.

If you create this man with 60 years of memories, an apendictomy scar, a trick need and the memories of the account that caused it etc, then I would say you are being deceptive, certainly to that man. You have made him believe he is 60 years old, and given him evidence he cannot refuse. He is either 60 years old or he is 1 minute old with 60 years of fake history.

Now, I assume this is in relation to the embedded age of the earth idea. If you tell me you created the man as per senario 1, I would agree that you personally are not being deceptive. However, I will agree that this is analogous to the earth. The earth is (if it was created ex-nihilo 6100 years ago) was created as per senario 2.


Does not the fact the man has a body which is not that of a day old homo-sapient (commonly, we call this body a zygote). His body, following the laws around us, demands a history. Even if his mind has nothing (which if it didn't, how could he read/breath/ect, his brain must have some organization to be able to function like a new born), his body still does.

I would declare that scenario 1 and 2 have the same amount of physical deception, but no mental deception. But then, one has to ask is their any deception at all. If I create my own universe (lets say I have big fancy toys), and I make it like the earth was 10k years ago, with a long history before it. But I create it in a closed system. To the perspective of any intelligent life (and this begs the question what is intelligent life, and how can we even recognize existence, and more and more cans of worms), the universe seems to have existed for a lot longer than it has, right? Well, how long has it existed? Lets say I create the universe so that it has a fully functioning Tipler cylinder which allowed them to access the universe before it was created? Does the past then exist?

To put it as simple as this, if I create a history of existence, have not I created all that existence as being true, and there by not a deception.

Maybe I'm rambling too much right now.
 
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Pesto

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No, I haven't.

Since you guys are such "experts" on showing God to be a deceiver, and my Embedded Age explanation to be wrong, I thought this little challenge would be a snap for you to answer.

Apparently you guys aren't half the "experts" you think you are.

Anyone can simply say my Embedded Age is wrong because that would make God a deceiver; but proving it is something else though --- isn't it?

:)

The reason we're "having trouble" answering it is because it is incredibly vague.

Let me give you my own apple challenge. I have a piece of fruit on my desk. Demonstrate that it is an apple, why it is an apple, and don't be wrong.
 
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Pesto

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Actually, I go by faith in science that this earth is as old as they say it is. I'll gladly acquiesce though if shown otherwise.

Then why don't you equally "go by faith" that science says the earth has actually existed for several billion years?
 
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