Why wasn't paul made a pope of rome?
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It's clear that he was intrumental in establishing the church in Rome, as can be seen in his epistle to the Romans, showing he acted as a shepherd there. Peter was first Patriarch in Antioch, but later moved to Rome.
Basil
Basil
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Meshavrischika
for Thy greater honor and glory
Because he was too outspoken and used to be a leader in "that other church" - lol
really, I'm sure he had nothing to do with the pope or "Church" at all
really, I'm sure he had nothing to do with the pope or "Church" at all
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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Trento
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What "role" did Christ give "individually" to Peter? Well, in Matthew 16:17-19, Christ individually imparts to Peter the office of "Rock," "Key-bearer," and the authority to "bind and loosen." Also, in Luke 22:31-32, the Lord individually imparts to Peter the task of strengthening his brethren (i.e. the other Apostles). Also, in John 21:15-19, the Lord makes Peter a shepherd, telling him three times to "feed my lambs" and "tend my sheep."
Non of things exclusive to the full measure of Peter's Apostolic office Because, Peter, like the other eleven, were made Apostles WAY BACK in Matthew 10:1-8, which was LONG before Peter was individually granted any of these other duties or responsibilities. Matthew 10 here, verses 7-8 tell us what the office of an Apostle is: It is a Christ-appointed office to proclaim the Gospel -- to deliver the fullness of new revelation to mankind. In this sense, and according to this Apostolic ministry, Peter was merely one of the Twelve and, as one of the Twelve, his Apostolic office was directed primarily toward to the Jews (Gal 2:7-9). Yet, as is clear from Scripture, the EPISCOPAL DIMENSION of Peter's Apostolic office carried other, additional responsibilities, which were given to him individually by Christ. And these responsibilities concerned maintaining the entire flock in unity and orthodoxy. And this is exactly what we see Peter doing throughout the New Testament.
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I think it wise to heed what Peter said about Paul's Epistles.
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all the letters, speaking in them about these-things; in which are ill-minded any which the un-learned and un-steadfast are wresting/twisting as also the rest of Writings/grafaV <1124>, toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [reve 17:8, 11]
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7131625
Reve 17:8 The wild-beast which you perceived was and not is and is being about to be ascending out of the abyss and into destruction/apwleian <684> it is going away
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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Pauline Primacy-51 Reasons
1. Paul is the only apostle who is called God's chosen vessel who will bear His name before Jews and Gentiles (Acts 9:15).
2. Paul is the last apostle chosen by God, apart from the other twelve.
3. The resurrected Christ appears to Paul in a different way than He appeared to the other apostles (Acts 9:3-6).
4. Paul is the only apostle who publicly rebukes and corrects another apostle (Galatians 2:11).
5. Paul is the only apostle who refers to his authority over all the churches (1 Corinthians 4:17, 7:17, 2 Corinthians 11:28).
6. Paul is the only apostle to call himself "father" (1 Corinthians 4:15).
7. Paul is the steward of God's grace (Ephesians 3:2). This means that Paul is the overseer of salvation. Fellowship with Paul and his successors is necessary for salvation.
8. Paul is mentioned more in the New Testament than any other apostle.
9. The book of Acts, which mentions all of the apostles, discusses Paul more than any other apostle.
10. Paul was the first apostle to write a book of scripture.
11. Paul wrote more books of the New Testament than any other apostle.
12. Paul is the first apostle to be taken to Heaven to receive a revelation (2 Corinthians 12:1-4).
13. Paul is the only apostle Satan was concerned about enough to give him a thorn in the flesh (2 Corinthians 12:7).
14. Paul seems to have suffered for Christ more than any other apostle (2 Corinthians 11:21-33).
15. Paul seems to have received more opposition from false teachers than any other apostle did, since he was the Pope (Romans 3:8, 2 Corinthians 10:10, Galatians 1:7, 6:17, Philippians 1:17).
16. Paul seems to have traveled further and more often than any other apostle, as we see in Acts and his epistles, which is what we might expect a Pope to do.
17. Only Paul's teachings were so advanced, so deep, that another apostle acknowledged that some of his teachings were hard to understand (2 Peter 3:15-16). Peter's understanding of doctrine doesn't seem to be as advanced as Pope Paul's. Paul has the primacy of doctrinal knowledge.
18. Paul was the first apostle whose writings were recognized as scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16).
19. Paul singles himself out as the standard of orthodoxy (1 Corinthians 14:37-38).
20. Only Paul refers to himself having a rod, a symbol of authority (1 Corinthians 4:21).
21. Paul initiates the council of Acts 15 by starting the debate with the false teachers (Acts 15:2) and delivering a report to the other church leaders (Acts 15:4).
22. Peter's comments in Acts 15:7-11 are accepted only because Pope Paul goes on to confirm them (Acts 15:12).
23. When the Corinthians were dividing over which apostle to associate themselves with, Paul's name was the first one mentioned (1 Corinthians 1:12).
24. Paul was the only apostle with the authority to deliver people over to Satan (1 Corinthians 5:5).
25. Paul had the best training and education of all the apostles (Philippians 3:4-6).
26. Paul is the only apostle to call the gospel "my gospel" (Romans 2:16).
27. Paul writes more about the identity of the church than any other apostle does (1 Corinthians 12, Colossians 1, Ephesians 4-5), which we might expect a Pope to do. Paul is the standard of orthodoxy and the Vicar of Christ on earth, so he has the primary responsibility for defining what the church is and who belongs to it.
28. Paul writes more about church government than any other apostle does, such as in his pastoral epistles.
29. Paul discusses church unity more than any other apostle does (1 Corinthians 12-14, Ephesians 4), suggesting that he was the one responsible for maintaining church unity because of his papal authority.
30. Paul writes more about the gospel than any other apostle does (Romans, Galatians). As the leader of Christianity, Paul was most responsible for explaining the gospel and other Christian doctrine.
31. After Jesus, Paul speaks more about the kingdom of God than anybody else does (Acts 14:22, 19:8, 1 Corinthians 4:20, Galatians 5:21, 2 Thessalonians 1:5). After leaving earth, Jesus passed on the responsibility of teaching about the kingdom of God to Paul, the king of the church on earth.
32. Paul speaks of revealing mysteries more than any other apostle does (Romans 11:25, 1 Corinthians 15:51, Ephesians 5:32, 6:19, 2 Thessalonians 2:7), since he was the chief teacher of the church.
33. Paul was the only apostle other people tried to impersonate (2 Thessalonians 2:2), since he had more authority than anybody else.
34. Paul's clothing works miracles (Acts 19:11-12).
35. Paul is delivered from death more than any other apostle (Acts 14:19, 28:3-6, 2 Corinthians 11:23).
36. The Jewish exorcists in Acts 19:13 associate themselves with Paul rather than with any other apostle.
37. The demons in Acts 19:15 recognize Paul's primacy.
38. The Jews in Acts 21:28 recognize Paul's primacy, saying that he's the man they hold most responsible for teaching Christianity everywhere.
39. Paul had authority over the finances of the church (Acts 24:26, 2 Corinthians 9:5, Philippians 4:15-18).
40. Paul acts as the chief shepherd of the church, taking responsibility for each individual (2 Corinthians 11:29). For example, Paul was Peter's shepherd (Galatians 2:11).
41. Paul interprets prophecy (2 Thessalonians 2:3-12).
42. Only Paul is referred to as being set apart for his ministry from his mother's womb (Galatians 1:15).
43. Jesus Christ is revealed in Paul (Galatians 1:16), meaning that Paul and his successors are the infallible standard of Christian orthodoxy.
44. Paul is the only apostle who works by himself, only later coordinating his efforts with the other apostles (Galatians 1:16-18).
45. Only Paul is referred to as bearing the brandmarks of Christ (Galatians 6:17).
46. Every Christian was interested in Paul and what was happening in his life, looking to him as their example and their encouragement (Philippians 1:12-14).
47. Christians served Paul (Philippians 2:30).
48. Paul worked more than the other apostles (1 Corinthians 15:10), since he had more responsibilities as Pope.
49. Paul was to be delivered from every evil deed (2 Timothy 4:18), meaning that he was infallible.
50. Only Paul is referred to as passing his papal authority on to successors who would also have authority over the church of God (Acts 20:28).
51. Among the seven churches addressed in Revelation 2-3, the church of Ephesus is mentioned first, since the bishops of Ephesus have primacy as the successors of Paul. The church in Ephesus "cannot endure evil men" (Revelation 2:2), meaning that the bishop of Ephesus is infallible when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals. The Ephesian church puts false teachers to the test (Revelation 2:2) by exercising its papal authority. The bishop of Ephesus has the responsibility of evaluating all teachers and declaring which are orthodox and which are not. None of the other churches in Revelation 2-3 are described as having this authority.
1. Paul is the only apostle who is called God's chosen vessel who will bear His name before Jews and Gentiles (Acts 9:15).
2. Paul is the last apostle chosen by God, apart from the other twelve.
3. The resurrected Christ appears to Paul in a different way than He appeared to the other apostles (Acts 9:3-6).
4. Paul is the only apostle who publicly rebukes and corrects another apostle (Galatians 2:11).
5. Paul is the only apostle who refers to his authority over all the churches (1 Corinthians 4:17, 7:17, 2 Corinthians 11:28).
6. Paul is the only apostle to call himself "father" (1 Corinthians 4:15).
7. Paul is the steward of God's grace (Ephesians 3:2). This means that Paul is the overseer of salvation. Fellowship with Paul and his successors is necessary for salvation.
8. Paul is mentioned more in the New Testament than any other apostle.
9. The book of Acts, which mentions all of the apostles, discusses Paul more than any other apostle.
10. Paul was the first apostle to write a book of scripture.
11. Paul wrote more books of the New Testament than any other apostle.
12. Paul is the first apostle to be taken to Heaven to receive a revelation (2 Corinthians 12:1-4).
13. Paul is the only apostle Satan was concerned about enough to give him a thorn in the flesh (2 Corinthians 12:7).
14. Paul seems to have suffered for Christ more than any other apostle (2 Corinthians 11:21-33).
15. Paul seems to have received more opposition from false teachers than any other apostle did, since he was the Pope (Romans 3:8, 2 Corinthians 10:10, Galatians 1:7, 6:17, Philippians 1:17).
16. Paul seems to have traveled further and more often than any other apostle, as we see in Acts and his epistles, which is what we might expect a Pope to do.
17. Only Paul's teachings were so advanced, so deep, that another apostle acknowledged that some of his teachings were hard to understand (2 Peter 3:15-16). Peter's understanding of doctrine doesn't seem to be as advanced as Pope Paul's. Paul has the primacy of doctrinal knowledge.
18. Paul was the first apostle whose writings were recognized as scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16).
19. Paul singles himself out as the standard of orthodoxy (1 Corinthians 14:37-38).
20. Only Paul refers to himself having a rod, a symbol of authority (1 Corinthians 4:21).
21. Paul initiates the council of Acts 15 by starting the debate with the false teachers (Acts 15:2) and delivering a report to the other church leaders (Acts 15:4).
22. Peter's comments in Acts 15:7-11 are accepted only because Pope Paul goes on to confirm them (Acts 15:12).
23. When the Corinthians were dividing over which apostle to associate themselves with, Paul's name was the first one mentioned (1 Corinthians 1:12).
24. Paul was the only apostle with the authority to deliver people over to Satan (1 Corinthians 5:5).
25. Paul had the best training and education of all the apostles (Philippians 3:4-6).
26. Paul is the only apostle to call the gospel "my gospel" (Romans 2:16).
27. Paul writes more about the identity of the church than any other apostle does (1 Corinthians 12, Colossians 1, Ephesians 4-5), which we might expect a Pope to do. Paul is the standard of orthodoxy and the Vicar of Christ on earth, so he has the primary responsibility for defining what the church is and who belongs to it.
28. Paul writes more about church government than any other apostle does, such as in his pastoral epistles.
29. Paul discusses church unity more than any other apostle does (1 Corinthians 12-14, Ephesians 4), suggesting that he was the one responsible for maintaining church unity because of his papal authority.
30. Paul writes more about the gospel than any other apostle does (Romans, Galatians). As the leader of Christianity, Paul was most responsible for explaining the gospel and other Christian doctrine.
31. After Jesus, Paul speaks more about the kingdom of God than anybody else does (Acts 14:22, 19:8, 1 Corinthians 4:20, Galatians 5:21, 2 Thessalonians 1:5). After leaving earth, Jesus passed on the responsibility of teaching about the kingdom of God to Paul, the king of the church on earth.
32. Paul speaks of revealing mysteries more than any other apostle does (Romans 11:25, 1 Corinthians 15:51, Ephesians 5:32, 6:19, 2 Thessalonians 2:7), since he was the chief teacher of the church.
33. Paul was the only apostle other people tried to impersonate (2 Thessalonians 2:2), since he had more authority than anybody else.
34. Paul's clothing works miracles (Acts 19:11-12).
35. Paul is delivered from death more than any other apostle (Acts 14:19, 28:3-6, 2 Corinthians 11:23).
36. The Jewish exorcists in Acts 19:13 associate themselves with Paul rather than with any other apostle.
37. The demons in Acts 19:15 recognize Paul's primacy.
38. The Jews in Acts 21:28 recognize Paul's primacy, saying that he's the man they hold most responsible for teaching Christianity everywhere.
39. Paul had authority over the finances of the church (Acts 24:26, 2 Corinthians 9:5, Philippians 4:15-18).
40. Paul acts as the chief shepherd of the church, taking responsibility for each individual (2 Corinthians 11:29). For example, Paul was Peter's shepherd (Galatians 2:11).
41. Paul interprets prophecy (2 Thessalonians 2:3-12).
42. Only Paul is referred to as being set apart for his ministry from his mother's womb (Galatians 1:15).
43. Jesus Christ is revealed in Paul (Galatians 1:16), meaning that Paul and his successors are the infallible standard of Christian orthodoxy.
44. Paul is the only apostle who works by himself, only later coordinating his efforts with the other apostles (Galatians 1:16-18).
45. Only Paul is referred to as bearing the brandmarks of Christ (Galatians 6:17).
46. Every Christian was interested in Paul and what was happening in his life, looking to him as their example and their encouragement (Philippians 1:12-14).
47. Christians served Paul (Philippians 2:30).
48. Paul worked more than the other apostles (1 Corinthians 15:10), since he had more responsibilities as Pope.
49. Paul was to be delivered from every evil deed (2 Timothy 4:18), meaning that he was infallible.
50. Only Paul is referred to as passing his papal authority on to successors who would also have authority over the church of God (Acts 20:28).
51. Among the seven churches addressed in Revelation 2-3, the church of Ephesus is mentioned first, since the bishops of Ephesus have primacy as the successors of Paul. The church in Ephesus "cannot endure evil men" (Revelation 2:2), meaning that the bishop of Ephesus is infallible when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals. The Ephesian church puts false teachers to the test (Revelation 2:2) by exercising its papal authority. The bishop of Ephesus has the responsibility of evaluating all teachers and declaring which are orthodox and which are not. None of the other churches in Revelation 2-3 are described as having this authority.
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I don't think the Catholics or Orthodox understand revelation very well, but then again, neither does the vast majority of Christianity for that matter the way it looks. 2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging living and dead, according as the manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him
Reve 11:18 And the nations are angered, and came Thy wrath, and the Time of the dead to be judged/kriqhnai <2919> (5683), and to give the wages to
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7131625
2 Timothy 4:1 translation
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Meshavrischika
for Thy greater honor and glory
"7. Paul is the steward of God's grace (Ephesians 3:2). This means that Paul is the overseer of salvation. Fellowship with Paul and his successors is necessary for salvation."
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Hello Simon,
Hopefully you wrote all that as a way to refute some of the people that make the claims about Peter. Surely you don't think that Paul had primacy.
Galatians 2: NAB
6 But from those who were reputed to be important (what they once were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--those of repute made me add nothing.
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter to the circumcised,
8 for the one who worked in Peter for an apostolate to the circumcised worked also in me for the Gentiles,
9 and when they recognized the grace bestowed upon me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas their right hands in partnership, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Clement later chastised the Corinthians for showing partiality among the apostles.
God Bless,
Yarddog
Hopefully you wrote all that as a way to refute some of the people that make the claims about Peter. Surely you don't think that Paul had primacy.
Galatians 2: NAB
6 But from those who were reputed to be important (what they once were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--those of repute made me add nothing.
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter to the circumcised,
8 for the one who worked in Peter for an apostolate to the circumcised worked also in me for the Gentiles,
9 and when they recognized the grace bestowed upon me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas their right hands in partnership, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Clement later chastised the Corinthians for showing partiality among the apostles.
God Bless,
Yarddog
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Then why the heck do the RCs show partiality to Peter
You speaketh with "forked tongue" me thinks as I view Paul as a MAJOR Apostle and without him, are NT would be pretty bare.
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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I was thinkin the zact same thing....Then why the heck do the RCs show partiality to Peter
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Hello,Then why the heck do the RCs show partiality to Peter
Do you make the same mistake that the Corinthians made and put one above the other?
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Nope. There is only ONE I put above me.
Matthew 17:5 Still of-Him speaking, behold! a cloud, luminous, upon-shadows them. And behold!, a voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is the Son of Me, the Beloved, in whom I delight, be ye hearing Him!"
.
Revelation 2:18 And to the messenger of the assembly in Thyatira, write! Now this is saying the Son of the GOD/YHWH, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to burnished-brass.
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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I am curious which part of the epistle you ascertained this from?
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I am rather partial to the book of Romans myself
Romans 9:27 "Isaiah yet cries-out over the Israel 'if-ever may be the Number of the sons of Israel as the Sand of the Sea, the Remnant shall be being saved'". [Isaiah 10:22,23]
Reve 20:8 and he shall be coming out to deceive the nations, the in the Four Corners of the Land, the Gog and Magog, to be together-assembling them into the battle of which the Number of them as the Sand of the Sea.[Ezekiel 7:1-2]
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simonthezealot
have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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http://www.ccel.org/ccel/richardson...eatest example of patient endurance#highlight
Can you cut and paste me an example? that's the link...
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