Do you think Noah's Ark is on Arrat???

Hector Medina

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Heres a little soemthing:

The Chinese calendar began in 1953 B.C., so their recorded history goes back some 4000 years.
The Hebrew calendar goes back to Adam almost 6000 years ago.

Do any other calendars go back that far?


Hector
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Originally posted by Hector Medina
Heres a little soemthing:

The Chinese calendar began in 1953 B.C., so their recorded history goes back some 4000 years.
The Hebrew calendar goes back to Adam almost 6000 years ago.

Do any other calendars go back that far?


Hector

So?

We have evidence that humans have existed longer than simply the past 6000 years in the archaeological record.

Furthermore, the geologic record does not support young-earth creationism, nor does it support the idea of a global flood occurring within the past few thousand years.
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by Hector Medina


Do any other calendars go back that far? 

The Mayan calander goes back to about 3000 bc and it ends on 2012 ad. It follows some sort of natural cycle in our solar system that takes about 5000 years to make it's circut.
 
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Blindfaith

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Back to the OP

The bible states that the Arc is on the mountains of Ararat ~ that's a pretty big mountain range.  I don't know if they'll find it simply because it's a very large area, and the countries surrounding it can be hostile.

I'm not concerned ~ I'll get all the answers when I get to heaven :D

~Peace in Christ
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by sampo
   What are you on, John?

What am I on? Do you mean what drugs do I take? Well, I take a little bit of tagament for my tummy every now and then, because sometimes I eat things that Moses in the Bible tells me not to eat. Otherwise I really do not like taking pills. I will even avoid taking a tylenol if I can.

What are you on?

 
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by Mechanical Bliss
So?

We have evidence that humans have existed longer than simply the past 6000 years in the archaeological record. 

There is no evidence that modern humans have been food producers for more than 6000 years. Adam was formed to tend the Garden in Eden.

All "humans" before that were good gathers.
 
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Hector Medina

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Mechanical Bliss,

I believe that anything thsat isn't/with out out a calender like the theoreitic geological record can't be proven.

I know that somehting that was made like a calender proves origins and the Hebrew is the oldest,God's chosen people.



In Christ,

Hector
 
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kaotic

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Originally posted by Hector Medina
Mechanical Bliss,

I believe that anything thsat isn't/with out out a calender like the theoreitic geological record can't be proven.

I know that somehting that was made like a calender proves origins and the Hebrew is the oldest,God's chosen people.



In Christ,

Hector

LOL ok man believe what you what.
 
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notto

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Originally posted by JohnR7
There is no evidence that modern humans have been food producers for more than 6000 years. Adam was formed to tend the Garden in Eden.

All "humans" before that were good gathers.

Please do a google search on "History of Agriculture" and I think you will find that there is ample evidence that the domestication of animals and plants has been around up to 7500 - 15,000 years ago depending on the part of the globe you look at.

There's evidence of agriculture in South American up to 10,000 years ago.

http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/~sare/columbian.html

All of this is far from the "Garden of Eden" and shows that the "new world" had populations of agriculture long before your 6000 year garden of eden date.

If you have some documentation of evidence to support your claim perhaps you could share it, otherwise it is simply an unsupported assertation.
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Originally posted by Hector Medina
Mechanical Bliss,

I believe that anything thsat isn't/with out out a calender like the theoreitic geological record can't be proven.

I know that somehting that was made like a calender proves origins and the Hebrew is the oldest,God's chosen people.



In Christ,

Hector

The difference is that the geologic record has evidence for its old age. Your position on the age of the Earth, however, is not consistent with this evidence.

The existence of caldendars simply proves the use of cosmology by humans to trace and record the passage of time. Obviously humans were around before this time, as we have evidence showing this. There was a time when humans didn't have a conception of a calendar.

Humanity has existed before recorded history and there is evidence that shows it. Whether or not you believe it is another story...

...and it appears notto already addressed the points on domesticated plants I was going to bring up. Excellent.
 
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Hector Medina

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Mechanical Bliss typed ,

=====================================================

The difference is that the geologic record has evidence for its old age. Your position on the age of the Earth, however, is not consistent with this evidence.

The existence of caldendars simply proves the use of cosmology by humans to trace and record the passage of time. Obviously humans were around before this time, as we have evidence showing this. There was a time when humans didn't have a conception of a calendar.

Humanity has existed before recorded history and there is evidence that shows it. Whether or not you believe it is another story...
=====================================================

As far as I'm concerned that is slightly true.


The Hebrew calender dates back to approx. 3650 B.C. and Adam came about 4004 B.C. on the 5th day of the creation so not quite perfect.

In cultures all around the world there are evidences that suggest they either existed before they used calenders or never had their own calender.
And calenders also had their own formats and such.

But since the lineage of the apolstles from Adam to Peleg(I forgot who it ends with)? in the Old Testament only goes back to 4004 B.C. thats all I wil ever work with because if I believe that the world's 10,000-12,000 like AIG states(that what someone posted before) then I might start believing the world is older and older and thats part of the theory of evolution which I don't believe.


In Christ,

Hector
 
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Douglaangu

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Hector, here is some excellent geological evidence of why the earth is older than 12'000 years.

Brydone called on a local priest for whom he carried letters of introduction, Canon Giuseppe Recupero. The canon turned out to the tbe perfect host. He found the party accommodation in a loval convent, showed them around the city, and, best of all enthralled them with his stories of local history.
His extensive knowledge of vulanology, and his facetious manner, immediately endeared him to Brydone, and before long the two were chatting enthusiastically about Etna and its eruptions.
Recupero turned out to be the local expect. He has become interested in the volcano quite by chance fifteen years earlier, when his abbot had asked him to investigate a stream of boiling mud that erupted from its side, and since then had made an exhaustive study of its geology. There was scarcely anything he didn't know.
He suprised Brydone by revealing that the lava field his party has crossed the previous afternoon came from no recent eruption, but had lain there for almost two thousand years.
Its origin was well documented. According to the Sicilian historian Diodorus Siculus, it had flowed from the mountain in the third century BC, during the second Punic war. At that time the war was at its height, and the souther city of Syracuse was under siege by the Roman army. To relieve the siege, the Carthaginian commander, Imilco, began a fored march down Sicily's eastern coast. At Acireale - where Brydone had encounted the barren lava - Imilco found the route blocked by 'rivers and streams of fire', and was forced to make a lengthy detour around Etna. Recupero had confirmed this historical account from insriptions he found carved into Roman monument on the lava itself.
But the discovery that the lava field was close to two thousand years old has an even more dramatic implication, Taking Brydone into his confidence, Recupero revealed that Etna had to be much older than the Bible said it was. As evidence, he led Brydone to a deep well which had been sunk through several layers of lava. What was so important about the well, Recupero pointed out, was that between each layer of lava lay a substantial layer of soil. From the barren blinker bed at Acirieale, he knew that it took more than two thousand years to form even a thin layer of soil on the surface of a lava flow, therefor there must have been more than that space of time between each of the eruptions which formed the strata in the well.
Not far away was a deep pit that has been cut through seven such layers. 'Now', said Recupero, 'the eruption which formed the lowest of these lavas, if we may be allowed to reason from analogy, must have flowed from the mountain at least 14'000 years ago'.

-Aeons, Martin Gorst.
 
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Originally posted by Hector Medina
Heres a little soemthing:

The Chinese calendar began in 1953 B.C., so their recorded history goes back some 4000 years.
The Hebrew calendar goes back to Adam almost 6000 years ago.

Do any other calendars go back that far?


Hector

 

I don´t know if Scientology has an official calendar but according to THEM, history goes back millions of years. See? It´s quite easy to date a calendar back. The hebrew calendar might CLAIM to go back to Adam but where is the evidence?
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Originally posted by Hector Medina
But since the lineage of the apolstles from Adam to Peleg(I forgot who it ends with)? in the Old Testament only goes back to 4004 B.C. thats all I wil ever work with because if I believe that the world's 10,000-12,000 like AIG states(that what someone posted before) then I might start believing the world is older and older and thats part of the theory of evolution which I don't believe.


In Christ,

Hector

What a minute? Am I reading this correctly? Even though there is evidence that clearly demonstrates the existence of the Earth and humans before 4004 B.C.E., you refuse to believe it becuase of Bishop Ussher's calculation of the age of the Earth from Biblical geneologies? And I'd like to point out that the Bible does not specifically say that it only goes back to 4004 B.C.E.

So if you believe in anything older than 4004 B.C.E. you might as well keep believing in successively older dates and since a geological time frame (which happens to coincide with biological evolution--that is, the theory of evolution does not dictate the age of the earth because that's within the realm of geological science) which is accepted by scientists? Since your religion can't let you believe in things for which we have clear evidence and since your religion causes an irrational aversion to evolution for you (apparently), you just can't agree because it would make you like an evolutionist?!?

Are you for real? Or are you just trolling this forum?
 
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Hector Medina

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Mechanical Bliss,

I said that cultures did exist beofre they made calenders but not before 6000 yrs approx. as far as I'm concerned.
Literal interpretations of the Bible use the lineage of the apostles liftetimes,no it dosen't state it word per word.

I believe the Bible is the infallible ultimate source of authority and the evidence in it is all I will ever need (just like public schools used to teach last century and before).


In Christ,

Hector
 
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Humanista

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I'm sure somewhere there is an old box, which believers in the Greek myths claim is Pandora's Box. Maybe a spoke off Apollo's chariot.
A rock formation on Mars is heralded as evidence of a civilization there because our pattern-seeking brains detect the image of a face there, just like we find images in clouds as a child.

People see patterns, find old pieces of wood, etc. and if the desire to make it fit into a legend or myth is strong enough, a rock formation on a mountain becomes conclusive proof of Noah's Ark. Not to science, but to the huge industry of religious-based pseudoscience. It follows in the ancient tradition of religious relics----a saint's bone, the Holy Grail, the robe Jesus wore--I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with an old petrified apple core and proclaimed it to be the one Adam and Eve ate.

There are images of Mary and Jesus on tortillas, skyscraper windows' condensation and tree trunks--my favorite is the pattern of melted ice cream spilled on the floor of a ice cream parlor.

People believe a lot of strange things.
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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Originally posted by Hector Medina
Mechanical Bliss,

I said that cultures did exist beofre they made calenders but not before 6000 yrs approx. as far as I'm concerned.

...and yet there is evidence that cultures did exist prior to 6000 years before present. You are in denial of the facts because you think a literal interpretation of your religious doctrine insists that anything that contradicts it--no matter how factual--must be false. That's why I asked if you are trolling this forum.


Literal interpretations of the Bible use the lineage of the apostles liftetimes,no it dosen't state it word per word.

...nor does it state specifically whether or not there are any gaps to be considered by this type of calculation. How do you really know that there is time that passed not described by the Bible? (You don't--you are making irrational assumptions) We have evidence that the Earth is older than 6000 years and yet you refuse to believe it for no rational reason.

I believe the Bible is the infallible ultimate source of authority and the evidence in it is all I will ever need (just like public schools used to teach last century and before).


The Bible is NOT infallible, apparently. A literal interpretation suggests that the world was flooded, but there is absolutely zero evidence for any such flood, nor is there any source for that amount of water, nor would it be feasible for someone to take two of each "kind" (whatever "kind" really means, anyway...) or construct such a vessel, nor is it logical for an omniscient God to even need to flood the Earth in the first place (it just makes a good story to tell for gullible people to believe because it seems so grandiose--though impossible). Since no flood happened, the Bible clearly is errant on this point--and thus probably others. Infallible? Hardly!
 
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Homie

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Mechanical Bliss, you say there is evidence for this and that but how do you really know? It is all really a matter of belief, and what sources you trust. So I guess we'd rather believe the Bible. I must say that what seems most logical to me is that God exists, and christianity seems to be the way to go.
 
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Freodin

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Originally posted by Homie
Mechanical Bliss, you say there is evidence for this and that but how do you really know? It is all really a matter of belief, and what sources you trust. So I guess we'd rather believe the Bible. I must say that what seems most logical to me is that God exists, and christianity seems to be the way to go.

If you follow this kind of "logic" - anything goes.
 
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