Abusive Relationships and what is Biblically Proper

Extirpated Wildlife · Nov 26, 2002

This is not about the divorce and remarriage issue. That's for another thread. But i was curious about people's thought on what God wants in an abusive relationship. The reason i bring this up is because people are very quick to bring up abuse in relationships when you do talk about divorce. So i thought that if it is such and important issue to bring up then, well its important enough to get thoughts on what you think God wants us to do in these situations. Since i have not really been around it and i feel people that general go through this are too tied to the event i thought i would start with how i see it and then go from there. I truly and trying to take this from a non-emotional side and try to see how God wants us to see it as Christians.

1 Peter 4:19 says "Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right."

Heb. 10:32 says "But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings."

Matt. 5:12 says "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Matt 5:44 says "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

Matt 18:15-20 says "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

The issue to me, and i could be very well wrong, is handling it and a Godly way. From many of the people i have come in contact with, and many of them probably were not Christians i have talked to, they almost had a hate for the person. This is not of God. I am not saying everyone feels this way. Sure there is pain and we Christians should be there to help them. But it is quite similar to persecution if handled properly, i think.

Knight · Nov 26, 2002

I think you're pretty well on-target. My personal view that if a person (say, a woman) is in an abusive relationship where her life and the lives of her children are in danger it is Biblically sound for her to remove herself and her children from that situation. This is different from divorce in that she is not dissolving the marriage merely avoiding danger and protecting her children. The marital union is still intact.

paulewog · Nov 26, 2002

I pretty much agree with the above, too. The ONLY Biblical reason you may divorce is for adultery.

It's a pretty tough thing for the family of an abusive father/mother (I think it's usually the father... heh). It seems as though alcohol is usually involved, also.

Blindfaith · Nov 26, 2002

Do any of you have any first hand experience with this?  I'm not going to proceed with the discussion until I receive an answer.

Thanks!

Terri

Susan · Nov 26, 2002

I believe that the only acceptable reason for divorce is adultery, and even then it should not be rushed into as a first option. I am growing ever closer to the belief that divorce is not allowed in any instance.

Annabel Lee · Nov 26, 2002

I've never been in an abusive relationship but I have been in a relationship with an alcoholic/drug addict.

I have worked in a Safe House for abused women and their children.
Adultery is NOT the only good reason to get a divorce.
Being terrorized and having the **** beat out of you is a fairly good reason also.

DAVIDZNUMBERONEGIRL · Nov 26, 2002

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
I've never been in an abusive relationship but I have been in a relationship with an alcoholic/drug addict.

I have worked in a Safe House for abused women and their children.
Adultery is NOT the only good reason to get a divorce.
Being terrorized and having the **** beat out of you is a fairly good reason also.

im sure there are a lot of "good" reasons to get divorced, but i think that what most of us want to know are the BIBLICAL reasons. Just because it looks/seams "good" to us doesn't mean its biblical. i know this is not the topic, but i just had to make a comment

Blindfaith · Nov 26, 2002

Here's my $.02.

If someone is trying to kill you, leave.

Divorce him.

Draw close to the Lord.

Stay alive so you can raise your children, instead of having the abuser get his hands on them to raise them as he sees fit.

If you want to talk biblical, instead of condemning the woman who leaves a horribly abusive relationship, whether it be beatings, drugs or alcohol, have a talk with the husband who's suppose to love his wife as Christ loves the church.

 

Annabel Lee · Nov 26, 2002

Originally posted by DAVIDZNUMBERONEGIRL
im sure there are a lot of "good" reasons to get divorced, but i think that what most of us want to know are the BIBLICAL reasons. Just because it looks/seams "good" to us doesn't mean its biblical. i know this is not the topic, but i just had to make a comment

 

 

When and if everyone figures out the BIBLICAL reasons for divorcing, let me know.
My question is..if everyone decides that adultery is the only Biblical reason for divorcing...what will you do with that knowledge?
Should we counsel women with broken bones to stay with their abuser because it is God's Will?

I sincerely believe God wants us to stay alive.

Am I emotional about this issue?...Oh yes.

Annabel Lee · Nov 26, 2002

I just realized this was the Protestant Section.
My mistake. I shouldn't even be posting in here.
I just assumed this was in General Apologetics. That's what I get for using the "Latest Discussion" option.
Please ignore previous post.

Blindfaith · Nov 26, 2002

Okay, now that that's done....

I do have something else to add to this discussion.  I'm seeing a lot of "making sure it's biblical", "is it in the bible?".  Kind of like, "what's the rule or law" type of attitude.

Before rules and laws comes compassion and understanding.  I'm afraid people are going to get so wrapped up in the laws that they will fail to see the individual in the circumstance.  Kind of what the Pharisees did ~ when the law itself becomes more important than the Law Giver.

Who are we to judge whether or not a beaten woman with a couple of black eyes and broken bones should stay in that so-called marriage because a Christian is thumbing through the bible and quoting versus to her telling her that "the only reason why you can leave is if he cheats on you"? 

A person who abuses their spouse is no better, and in my opinion, is worse than an adulterer.  He cheated on their vows to honor and obey until death do they part. 

How about the drug and alcohol abuser?  Isn't he cheating on his vows?  Cheating his family out of the income he's using for his earthly pleasure?

Is God lacking in mercy that he would condemn that woman for leaving?  I don't believe that one bit.

So why is anybody else?  If God can forgive, who are we to be so unforgiving?

~Peace in Christ

LightBearer · Nov 26, 2002

Originally posted by Knight
I think you're pretty well on-target. My personal view that if a person (say, a woman) is in an abusive relationship where her life and the lives of her children are in danger it is Biblically sound for her to remove herself and her children from that situation. This is different from divorce in that she is not dissolving the marriage merely avoiding danger and protecting her children. The marital union is still intact.

This is correct.

There are two other circumstances where say a wife for example may seperate (Not divorce) from her Husband.

1.  She or her children are in spiritual danger.

2. Willful non support. 

Evee · Nov 26, 2002

 Verbal abuse is bad enough, but slap me one time and you will find me at my nearest Divorce lawyer.

 I think if God loves me he would want me to leave.

 How would you ever be able to concentrate on God if you have to worry about getting the snot slapped out of you.

 I don't think God would want you to put up with that.

 I don't think Divorce is the unforgiveable sin.

 I have to admit this is my oppinions.

 It is not a good thing but I can't see myself getting beat up.

 To me divorce would be the best of a bad situation.

 If anyone can find in the bibical sense to stay in that situation I would like to read it.

DAVIDZNUMBERONEGIRL · Nov 26, 2002

Originally posted by blindfaith
Okay, now that that's done....

I do have something else to add to this discussion.  I'm seeing a lot of "making sure it's biblical", "is it in the bible?".  Kind of like, "what's the rule or law" type of attitude.

Before rules and laws comes compassion and understanding.  I'm afraid people are going to get so wrapped up in the laws that they will fail to see the individual in the circumstance.  Kind of what the Pharisees did ~ when the law itself becomes more important than the Law Giver.

Who are we to judge whether or not a beaten woman with a couple of black eyes and broken bones should stay in that so-called marriage because a Christian is thumbing through the bible and quoting versus to her telling her that "the only reason why you can leave is if he cheats on you"? 

i think people are missing the whole point. the reason this is in here is because the poster wanted to know what bible believing folks believe. putting it in the apolegetics forumn will just start a debate on the whole who is god to interfere in relationships issue.

 no one is judging the abused/abuser. where is it that you keep getting that from? i dont think any of us here are as cold hearted as to thumb through the bible and quote versus  telling an abused male or female that "the only reason they can leave is if the other cheats "? 

If we believe that adultery is the only reason-its within our rights to think so.not to mention that we have scripture to back our pov. If you dont agree, thats fine-no one is saying you have to. However, please refrain from implying how inconsiderate we're being...  i should of said I/me, I cant speak for the others

and like i've said many times, NOONE IS SAYING THE ABUSED PERSON CAN'T LEAVE. THEIR IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEPERATION AND DIVORCE.

DAVIDZNUMBERONEGIRL · Nov 26, 2002

 oops...

Blindfaith · Nov 26, 2002

Okkaayyy.......

If I was an unbeliever coming in here, wherever it's posted, I'd think that Christians could act very self-righteous, and there would be no mercy or grace granted to me if I were in that situation.

If posters want to find scripture to back up their position, to state what they believe, I think that's just great.  But, by the same token, find scripture that doesn't back up staying in an abusive relationship.  We can't just pick and choose scripture to emphasize strictly what we believe, including this very topic.

However, please refrain from implying how inconsiderate we're being

Show me where I said anybody here is being insensitive.  Have I really offended you that greatly?  Are my opinions or beliefs not welcome here?

 

NOONE IS SAYING THE ABUSED PERSON CAN'T LEAVE. THEIR IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEPERATION AND DIVORCE.

First of all, do not yell ~ I can read just fine. 

 

i dont think any of us here are as cold hearted as to thumb through the bible and quote versus telling an abused male or female that "the only reason they can leave is if the other cheats

That's exactly what has been going on, not just in this thread, but at least two others this past week.  It's okay to leave (separate) but not divorce?  How legalistic is that?  Telling someone that they can leave, but not get a divorce is nothing short of being judgemental, and throwing the stones at that individual like a 90 mph fastball.  If I were going through a major crisis, and the people within my church acted as such, I'd leave.

 

the reason this is in here is because the poster wanted to know what bible believing folks believe.

Like I said before, is my opinion not welcome?  I am a bible-believing person, or I wouldn't be a moderator.  I put it in General Apologetics, because it's a general forum type topic, not one that is specific to non-denominational, Protestant or Reformed.

Of course divorce isn't the desired course of a marriage!  God designed marriage between a man and woman to be a lifelong commitment.  There are consequences and repercussions to divorce ~ been there done that, and still reaping what happened.  But God is full of grace, mercy and forgiveness.  The bible says God hates divorce, I think He probably grieves over it just as much as He hates it.  But I really don't think He'd condone the continuation of a marriage where one is being abused.

 

DAVIDZNUMBERONEGIRL · Nov 26, 2002

Originally posted by blindfaith
Okkaayyy.......

If I was an unbeliever coming in here, wherever it's posted, I'd think that Christians could act very self-righteous, and there would be no mercy or grace granted to me if I were in that situation.

If posters want to find scripture to back up their position, to state what they believe, I think that's just great.  But, by the same token, find scripture that doesn't back up staying in an abusive relationship.  We can't just pick and choose scripture to emphasize strictly what we believe, including this very topic.

Show me where I said anybody here is being insensitive.  Have I really offended you that greatly?  Are my opinions or beliefs not welcome here?

 

First of all, do not yell ~ I can read just fine. 

 

That's exactly what has been going on, not just in this thread, but at least two others this past week.  It's okay to leave (separate) but not divorce?  How legalistic is that?  Telling someone that they can leave, but not get a divorce is nothing short of being judgemental, and throwing the stones at that individual like a 90 mph fastball.  If I were going through a major crisis, and the people within my church acted as such, I'd leave.

 

Like I said before, is my opinion not welcome?  I am a bible-believing person, or I wouldn't be a moderator.  I put it in General Apologetics, because it's a general forum type topic, not one that is specific to non-denominational, Protestant or Reformed.

Of course divorce isn't the desired course of a marriage!  God designed marriage between a man and woman to be a lifelong commitment.  There are consequences and repercussions to divorce ~ been there done that, and still reaping what happened.  But God is full of grace, mercy and forgiveness.  The bible says God hates divorce, I think He probably grieves over it just as much as He hates it.  But I really don't think He'd condone the continuation of a marriage where one is being abused.

 

again, you've missed the point. If you are an unbelievr, then this really doesnt apply to you does it?

I have to put things in caps, because its obvious you dont see things otherwise. I have never and will never tell an abused person you cant leave the abuser. seperation and divorce are two different things. why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

you ask me to show you how you are implying that i am being insensitive- i dont really see a need to, you did it for me...."That's exactly what has been going on, not just in this thread, but at least two others this past week.  It's okay to leave (separate) but not divorce?  How legalistic is that?  Telling someone that they can leave, but not get a divorce is nothing short of being judgemental, and throwing the stones at that individual like a 90 mph fastball.  If I were going through a major crisis, and the people within my church acted as such, I'd leave."...if that isnt implying that im insensitive, what is?

like i said earlier, everyone is entitled to have their opinion. the only difference between mine and yours is I have scripture and you dont...do you? if so, please post it. i would like to see what the bible, because ultimatly thats what i am going to agree to , says.

 

Annabel Lee · Nov 26, 2002

Originally posted by DAVIDZNUMBERONEGIRL
again, you've missed the point. If you are an unbelievr, then this really doesnt apply to you does it?

I have to put things in caps, because its obvious you dont see things otherwise. I have never and will never tell an abused person you cant leave the abuser. seperation and divorce are two different things. why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

you ask me to show you how you are implying that i am being insensitive- i dont really see a need to, you did it for me...."That's exactly what has been going on, not just in this thread, but at least two others this past week.  It's okay to leave (separate) but not divorce?  How legalistic is that?  Telling someone that they can leave, but not get a divorce is nothing short of being judgemental, and throwing the stones at that individual like a 90 mph fastball.  If I were going through a major crisis, and the people within my church acted as such, I'd leave."...if that isnt implying that im insensitive, what is?

like i said earlier, everyone is entitled to have their opinion. the only difference between mine and yours is I have scripture and you dont...do you? if so, please post it. i would like to see what the bible, because ultimatly thats what i am going to agree to , says.

 

I find your whole post rude to the extreme.

There is a big difference between separation and divorce. Divorce means cutting all ties between you and the abuser. Divorce means having the abuse come out in court so the victim is offered more protection. Divorce means hopefully the abuser having less access to the children.
With separation they are still legally bound to each other.
And the abuser still has access to the children
It's paramount to end that relationship immediately.

Have you ever seen a woman that has been used as a punching bag?

TheBear · Nov 27, 2002

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
I just realized this was the Protestant Section.
My mistake. I shouldn't even be posting in here.
I just assumed this was in General Apologetics. That's what I get for using the "Latest Discussion" option.
Please ignore previous post.

This forum is for Christians of all denominations.

Laura · Nov 28, 2002

Originally posted by Susan
I believe that the only acceptable reason for divorce is adultery, and even then it should not be rushed into as a first option. I am growing ever closer to the belief that divorce is not allowed in any instance.

Are you kidding me? So if a woman and/or her children are being severely abused by someone who is supposedly supposed to be "the leader" of the house, she should stay? Excuse me, but that's ****.

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