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Loser For Jesus

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Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Your conclusion is a judgement."

on his teaching, yes. On who he is as a person, definatly not!

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. To call someone a false teacher and then say that its not a judgment on him as a person just doesn't work.

A person who commits murder is a murderer. A person who sins is a sinner. A person who teaches falsehood is a false teacher. These are not just labels or judgments about their actions, but about their character, their nature, and who they are as a person.

Would you call someone a murderer and then say, "Oh, but that wasn't a personal judgment. He's a great person, really. He just commits the odd murder here and there."

I haven't been involved enough in this debate to say whether Hobart is a false teacher or not, but if he is then he's leading people into error, leading them away from the true gospel and a true knowledge of God, and as such is most certainly not a "great person."

You can't have it both ways, Louis.

love in Christ,

Malcolm
 
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MizDoulos

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Note: Please keep personal attacks out of the forum. It is also a violation of forum rules. Again, if anyone has an issue with another member, use your e-mail or PM located in the profile page.

Thank you.
 
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Loser For Jesus

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Okay, just to clarify, I did not call Hobart a false teacher. I specifically said I could not say whether he was a false teacher or not.

My comments above deal with the implications of calling someone - anyone - a false teacher. They would apply just as much to myself as anyone else. This particular point is an issue of terms and definitions, not a personal attack against anyone.

love in Christ,
Malcolm
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Thanks for the supportive comments friends. But could we move back to the subject at hand? The mod has issued a warning and I would hate to see the thread shut down by an argument over my spiritual state. :o
Peace
Hobie
 
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Andrew

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*LOL*

so why not call the Catholics false teachers and prodigals too.
what abt those who believe baptism is necess for salvation.
what abt those who still live under the 10 Commandments or mix it with grace.
what about the preterist who believe all prophecy is already fulfilled.
what about cessationists
what about those who believe Jesus was only spirit-spotless

gosh its like anyone and everyone can be a "false teacher" as long as they dont agree with your pet doctrines.
 
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Caedmon

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Originally posted by Andrew
*LOL*

so why not call the Catholics false teachers and prodigals too.
what abt those who believe baptism is necess for salvation.
what abt those who still live under the 10 Commandments or mix it with grace.
what about the preterist who believe all prophecy is already fulfilled.
what about cessationists
what about those who believe Jesus was only spirit-spotless

gosh its like anyone and everyone can be a "false teacher" as long as they dont agree with your pet doctrines.

That's rather ironic&nbsp;coming from you Andrew...&nbsp;didn't you tell&nbsp;someone else&nbsp;that he was&nbsp;preaching "another Jesus"? :confused:
 
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Andrew

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Well he did call me a false teacher too, and said "u're as bad as they come".

and yes, the Jesus i know didnt fall sick. neither was he pimply nor crossed eyed. so it must be another "Jesus" *L


the point is that "false teacher" is loosely used in this forum on anyone who fails to agree with your fav doctrines. The term false teacher appears only once (according to my Mac Bible search) here:

2Pe 2:1 -- But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

and if one reads the whole chap, a false teacher cannot be a Christian, at least not in the way it is describe in 2 Pet. eg it says here "denying the Lord". I dont think anyone here does that.

so to call your fellow Christians here a "fasle teacher" is really stretching the defn.
 
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SnuP

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Let us all consider the discussion of false teachers and prodicals closed and closed for good.

For the sake of the continuity of this thread and its accessability I beseech you, consider the matter closed.

God bless you all, even my dear brother Louis.

(May God pour blessing upon his head, blessing that cover his being and bring him into deeper and deeper realms in Christ. May his great knowledge and learning be increased even more and may he know the very heart and mind of God, even in new and deeper ways. I bless him because of his good heart toward God and his desire to show others the light. ...God bless you brother.)

SnuP
 
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LouisBooth

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*sigh* Hobs, you didn't harm me in any way, I just think you're teachings are wrong. As snup says, I consider the case closed after we agreed to it.

Great change of pace snup!! I'd say that faith would be solely based on God because its a gift from him.
 
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LouisBooth

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"Why then would Christ tell us that if we would not believe Him then believe the works. "

Because that is the JEWISH way of thinking. Are you jewish? why don't you read in the Pslams where he was refering to and why he refered to that particular passage.

As for testimony, no I'm not denying their experience at all. I'm saying your faith should be in God and God alone, all other things fail including your testimony. God alone perserves thus have faith in him.
 
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SnuP

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Please tell us how you have experience God and God alone.

I have shown you some of the ways that I have experienced God (the real person, the being). Please share with us.

If you say that we are to have faith on God alone then that implies that you have had experienced with His person. I for one who love to hear your testimony.
 
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ThatOneGuy

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After reading many of the posts from June (sorry, I don't have time to get through 44 pages today), I have a couple of thoughts.&nbsp; I hope I'm not repeating anything said previously,&nbsp;nor firing at shadows with this post.&nbsp;&nbsp;

I sense that many people, in an effort to defend God's goodness, try to move the responsibility for infirmity from God to Satan.&nbsp; If you are a person who would say, "Yes, the power to make ill is Satan's alone,&nbsp;or&nbsp;Satan is the&nbsp;agent in every&nbsp;affliction" I would like to throw out a few passages for consideration :)

1. Numbers 11:31-35 ~ God "strikes" the people with a plague.

2. II Chronicles 26:16-21 ~ King Uzziah was "smitten" by God.

3. Acts 5:1-11 ~ May seem obscure, but Peter's tone (particularly v. 10) implies that both Ananais and Sapphira are receiving the judgement of God.

Just for kicks, on&nbsp;the topic of healing, I'd like to propose an idea I get from the book of Mark (again, I hope this is not a repeat).&nbsp;&nbsp; In the first two chapters, we see that Jesus'&nbsp;teaching/words have power along three major axes: 1) Casting out of demons (1:22-27), 2) Healing of physical illnesses (1:29-34), and 3) Forgiveness of sins (2:1-12).&nbsp;

Of the three, I would argue that #3, forgiveness of sins, is the primary focus of Jesus' ministry, and #1 and #2 are penultimate.&nbsp; This is based on Mark 1:33-38.&nbsp; On the night of the Sabbath, Jesus heals many of the sick in the city.&nbsp; In the morning, he takes off to pray, and when told that more people are looking for him (I would argue it is not the "many" just mentioned), what does Jesus say?&nbsp; "Let us go somewhere else to the towns nearby, so that I may preach there also; for that is what I came for" (1:38).

There's an interesting healing story in&nbsp;John&nbsp;5:1-9.&nbsp; &nbsp;I'm curious how y'all&nbsp;interpret this one?

As for faith, I've recently been thinking about whether faith is binary (have or have not) or gray (20%,40%, etc.).&nbsp; It occurred to me recently when reading Luke 17:5-6, that faith seems to be of the former variety.&nbsp; When the disciples ask Jesus to "increase [their] faith," that sounds like the latter variety, but Jesus says that size doesn't matter (not a reference to middle school jokes), and seems to make a logical step that even if size mattered, the smallest amount of faith would lead to miraculous occurrences.

Anyway, just some thoughts.&nbsp; I'm sure everyone's heard them before...&nbsp; But, on the off chance that someone hasn't, I hope you can love God for His justice, His compassion, and His wonderful promises!

/p
 
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SnuP

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size doesn't matter. But many people call faith what is accually just hope. Faith has substance to it. But what most people call faith has no substance to it just some thing that they would like to happen. In order for hope to become faith, you have to hear God speak what you hope for.
 
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Andrew

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ThatOneGuy,

If you are a person who would say, "Yes, the power to make ill is Satan's alone,ÊorÊSatan is theÊagent in everyÊaffliction" I would like to throw out a few passages for consideration
1. Numbers 11:31-35 ~ God "strikes" the people with a plague.
2. II Chronicles 26:16-21 ~ King Uzziah was "smitten" by God.

These are quotes from the OT. We must remember we are on this side of the cross. Jesus has died and risen, borne our sins as well as our diseases and pains.

Also, the Hebrew tense in the OT is one of permissive ie God allowed it to happen.

3. Acts 5:1-11 ~ May seem obscure, but Peter's tone (particularly v. 10) implies that both Ananais and Sapphira are receiving the judgement of God.

firstly, Ananais was not a believer. secondly, the passage does not say that God killed them.

yes, your questions have been addressed b4. but the pt to consider is this:

1. Can you believe that forgiveness of sins is offered to all men becos Jesus died for all men's sins?

if you can believe 1., then you should have no problem believing...

2. Healing is offered to all.

becos Jesus did not just bear our sins on the cross but our sicknesses and pains too. It's called the double cure and is recorded in Isa 53.

So to say that God does not want to heal all is the same as saying God does not want to save all. Healing (as well as prosperity) are part of the atoning work of Christ.
 
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