What is "Once Saved Always Saved," anyway?

Can't loose your salvation. You're a new creation

Originally posted by Hanani
James 2:26
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.


Isaiah 7:9
The head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is only Remaliah's son. If you do not stand firm in your faith, you will not stand at all.' "


and theres no problems with handling the predestination part of the verse God has a plan for each and everyone of us and he gives us the grace or enables us to carry out that plan but we still have to choose to do it or not

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You still have not answered pertaining to Romans 8:30. How is it that one can lose their salvation after one has been justified by God? For God says that those whom He justified He will also glorify.

you are justified everytime you ask forgiveness and turn from your sin through Jesus

that means that you are in sin sin is that wich breaks relation with God if you are breaking relation and not fixing the problem you will go further and further away from him backsliding till it's at the point you don't care anymore

as you see it is a continual strugle because i know even though you are saved you still have temptation because we all still live in flesh but it's a continual battle to stay out of sin

and the glorifying part is not instantaneous thats called sanctification and it's a life long process

Jesaiah:

Since you do not hold to Once Saved Always Saved then how do you explain Romans 8? We do not do anything to earn our salvation so how do we do anything to lose it?

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One of the major difficulties we encounter in discussions of “trust,” “believe,” and “faith/faithful,” is that there is no corresponding verbal form of “faith” in the English language. We have no way of saying that one “faithed” or that someone is “faithing” in God. Yet in both the Hebrew and the Greek the word group expressing the concept of faith also contains a verb built on the same root. To put it simply, noun and verb are cognate. For example, the Hebrew verb "‘aman," which means “to be supported,” from which we derive the verb “to believe,” has the corresponding noun "‘emunah," which means “faith” or “faithful.” Likewise, the Greek verb "pisteuo," which means “to believe,” has the corresponding noun "pistis," which means “faith” or “faithful.” Unfortunately, many English readers do not realize that “believing,” “having faith,” and “being faithful” all derive from the same word group whether in the Hebrew or the Greek.

The noun derived from the Hebrew verb "‘aman" is "‘emunah." Yet its primary function is not to describe someone who has “been convinced” that something is true (like our English “he’s a believer”), but rather someone who is “reliable,” “honest,” “steady,” or who “conscientiously performs his duties.” Thus the Hebrew noun that is cognate to the verb “to believe” describes the quality of being “faithful.”

The classic example of this meaning is found in Habakkuk 2:4, a decisive verse for the Apostle Paul. Here, the famous phrase “the just shall live by faith” must be understood from the original context of Habakkuk to mean that the righteous person lives on the basis of his faithfulness. In the time of Habakkuk, the nation was being torn in her loyalties, whether to trust in God and the covenant He had given, or to ally herself with the nations for protection. Habakkuk’s statement is made with this in mind: the righteous (those who have faith in God) will live (be protected and sustained) by faith (by demonstrating a faithful trust in God and His promises). It is this understanding of faith that Paul carries into the argument of Romans and is sustained throughout the book.

If we give the word its Semitic background as we should, we can never divorce the sense of “faithfulness” from the meaning of “agreeing with the truth” or “being convinced by the truth.” To put it another way, the Apostles never envisioned a situation where someone was accredited as having genuine “faith” but whose life did not evidence “faithfulness.”

Shimon

Originally posted by Hanani
you are justified everytime you ask forgiveness and turn from your sin through Jesus

that means that you are in sin sin is that wich breaks relation with God if you are breaking relation and not fixing the problem you will go further and further away from him backsliding till it's at the point you don't care anymore

as you see it is a continual strugle because i know even though you are saved you still have temptation because we all still live in flesh but it's a continual battle to stay out of sin

and the glorifying part is not instantaneous thats called sanctification and it's a life long process

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There are three parts to salvation: justification, sanctification, and glorification. Sanctification and glorification are two distinct things, so again how does one lose their salvation if God promises to glorify those whom He has justified?

Shimon,

Could you please reply regarding Romans 8 primarily in regards to vs. 30-38? I appreciate your word study but it did not correlate to my question. I apologize if I shoud have been more specific.

Jesaiah:

Could you please reply regarding Romans 8 primarily in regards to vs. 30-38? I appreciate your word study but it did not correlate to my question. I apologize if I shoud have been more specific.

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I already did, in reply #24.

Shimon

Originally posted by Shimon
Jesaiah:



I already did, in reply #24.

Shimon

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Do you believe justification occurs at the moment in your life in which you begin to have faith in Christ or after a lifetime of faith in Christ?

Yes, it's possible to lose your salvation once having received it. But, it's not because God has reneged on His promise, but because we walked out on it. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is our guarantee, our "good-faith" deposit guaranteeing our inheritance. Well, that being the case, God won't ever back out on His promise to us.

But, we most definitely can back out on the promise. Note the scripture references below:

"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name, and in Thy name have cast out devils, and in Thy name done many wonderful works?' And then I will profess unto them, 'I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity!" - Matt. 7:22-23

Recognize that the people who are pleasing with Jesus are actually believers. Jesus never denied that they did the things which they claimed to have done. And the Bible says that when they do these works in the name of Jesus, we'll know whether or not the spirit is of God. Remember what happened to the sons of Sceva when they tried to cast out devils and had no faith to back it up: Acts 19:14-16 - "And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they led out of that house naked and wounded."

Apparently, these were men and women of faith, yet Jesus said that He didn't know them. Not because they weren't once saved. We know they were because the things they did were to be SIGNS that would follow them THAT BELIEVE-(Mark 16:17-18). But, the Bible says that our sins separate us from God, and so because they were WORKERS of iniquity, God no longer knew them and He cast them away from His presence. Note that heaven is the fully manifested presence of God.

You see, we are saved by grace through faith alone... NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. But, we are definitely rewarded or punished by our works... Notice that in the Matthew 7 scripture I reference, Jesus didn't cast them away because of thier lack of FAITH, but because of their lack of obedience to His will.

There are SO many other scriptures I could quote, but I won't unless there are responses that don't think that the above evidence is enough.

But, the question will no doubt be asked, if we are not saved from hell (according to the Matt. 7 reference above), then what are we saved from when we receive salvation? The answer is in Matthew 1:21- "...for He shall save His people from their sins." We are saved from bondage to our sinful nature. This only gives us the right and ability to abstain, but the choice is STILL ours to make and we can still CHOOSE wrong.

I love you and God bless.

Mellymell,


Concering Matthew 7:21-23 how are you sure that these people were saved? If they were saved then Christ would have known them because to be saved (at any time) one must have a personal relationship with Christ. Secondly if you read the context of the passage Jesus is speaking of two types of people: true believers vs. false believers. He gives examples of these two types in vs. 13-14 where He speaks of the broad gate and the narrow gate, vs. 15-20 the false prophet and the true prophet, vs. 24-27 the two men who built their homes. Those who come to Him in vs. 21-23 had not truly accepted Christ as their savior, they had lived a religious or Christian life for their own gain. They heard the word of the Lord but did it never truly settled in their hearts. The best example is the story given of the two men in vs. 24-27 and for more elaboration on that story and the men's circumstances read Luke 6.


If salvation is a work of Christ and you have done nothing to earn it then how can you do something to lose salvation? Again I refer to Romans 8:30-39, in that if we are justified by Christ when we have faith in Him then how do we lose our salvation if God promises to glorify those whom He has justified?


Be well

jesaiah "Do you believe justification occurs at the moment in your life in which you begin to have faith in Christ or after a lifetime of faith in Christ?"

everytime you sin you have broken relation with God the punishment for sin is death and all sin is equal therefore everytime you sin and ask for forgiveness you are justified and take hold of faith in Christ again instead of yourself and if you continualy ask forgiveness from your sins and turn from them with true sincerity you will be sanctified



sanctification is a life long experiance of God making you holy
glorification is to give a state of high honor

therfore if we are being made holy by God on a continual basis we are being glorified how does this happen by following him and by being justified by asking forgiveness through Christ Jesus and turning from our sin

Hanani,

First glorification is the experience of full and final glory of the redeemed. The point when they enter into eternal rest with God.

Second you say that each time that you confess Christ you are justified, so if you are justified (anytime) then according to God's Word you will also be glorified! So how does one lose their salvation when God claims that you won't?

Third if every time that you sin you must receive salvation again then you nor I will ever be saved! We sin daily and so we would daily seek salvation over and over. What kind of life would that be knowing that you can never have any true hope of eternal life or any true assurance of your salvation? By saying that one can lose their salvation makes the blood of Christ almost worthless for His sacrifice is not capable of or powerful enough to save one from sins past, present, and future.


Rather Paul says in Romans 8 that those whom God justifies He will also glorify them. That is why He is called the author and finisher of our faith (Heb. 12:2). In verse 31-39 Paul asks if God is for us, being that He gave His only Son to die for us, then who is against us? Who can bring a charge to God's people? Christ won't condemn us for He died for us and even at this moment intercedes for us. Who then shall separate us from the love of God? Paul sums it up: death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, etc. can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. God says that nothing can separate His people from Him, so how does one disagree with God and say that we can lose our salvation?


Be well

i covered this before but again the punishment for sin is death if we do not ask for forgiveness we are justified

but if you do not turn from your sin you do not have true faith because faith without works is dead

also we are made perfect in Christ but a better translation is that we are
made complete God gives us the grace to resist temptation yet we still fall
but he is there to lift us back up and cover over our mistakes making us complete

sorry you didn't give me a deffinition for glorification so i just weant to the dictionary

let us define sin - that wich breaks relation or that wich breaks contract God lays it out plainly for us we need to ask forgiveness for our sins or the punishment is death and eternal seperation

also you are just backing up my point that grace is not resistable but you must choose to believe and take hold and use it

Originally posted by Jesaiah

Third if every time that you sin you must receive salvation again then you nor I will ever be saved!

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Not when you sin, only when you reject God.

What kind of life would that be knowing that you can never have any true hope of eternal life or any true assurance of your salvation?

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Seems to work fine for the millions of Catholics around.

By saying that one can lose their salvation makes the blood of Christ almost worthless for His sacrifice is not capable of or powerful enough to save one from sins past, present, and future.

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Once again I can't speak for the non-Catholic OSNAS crowd, but the Catholic viewpoint does not see it this way. It certainly is powerful enough to save you from all sins, but only if you accept in and walk in the path Jesus created by his sacrifice. (And this is clearly by God's choice rather than any limitation on power -- if God had wanted for Jesus' sacrifice to save every single person then he could have done that.)

Rather Paul says in Romans 8 that those whom God justifies He will also glorify them.

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Yes, but there's more to the Bible than Romans 8 and 9. What was the point of Jesus' teachings if all we need is Paul's letters?

-Chris

romans just proves my view point on grace supporting my whole aspect on osas and if you sin you are rejecting God because you are straying from the path that he created for you with his sacrafice your saying that you know whats good for you better than God who knows everything does

"Not when you sin, only when you reject God."

You can't reject God after you're saved. romans proves that quite clearly. It also says explictly that you can't repent (turn away from) your salvation.

plz give the exact scripture were romans says you cannot reject God after your saved

Jesaiah:

Could you please reply regarding Romans 8 primarily in regards to vs. 30-38? I appreciate your word study but it did not correlate to my question. I apologize if I shoud have been more specific.

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Heh! Well, I think you and I are on different wavelengths so that we're misunderstanding each other. I'm really not sure what it is that you are asking me to provide. What is it in Romans 8:30-38 that you believe contradicts what I've said?

The point that I'm trying to make is that obedience to His commandments is the method by which we accept His sacrifice for our sins. The concept of "faith" can never be divorced from the concept of "faithful." If one does not obey His commandments, one does not have "faith." Yeshua's sacrifice for our sins saves us only so long as we remain faithful ourselves. This is what James was speaking of when He said:

James 2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

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This is not "works-based" salvation, because it is not our works that gets us into Heaven. It is our willingness to submit to His authority, absolutely and completely, and say "Your will, not mine." We acknowledge that He knows what's best for us better than we do ourselves, and we trust Him enough to do *everything* He tells us to do, without question, rather than insist on doing our own thing. *That* is true, saving faith, and if we are willing to submit, then Yeshua's sacrifice pays the penalty for our sins. But, without obedience -- total, unreserved obedience -- then we do not really trust Him, and have not accepted His sacrifice for our sins. We may mess up now and then, but we continue to strive with every ounce of effort we have, and continue to improve, continuing to become more and more like Him each and every day. It is a *heart* issue, a heart that *yearns* to be more like Him, and *grieves* when we mess up. This is why Yeshua commanded us to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul," because it takes that much effort.


Shimon

"plz give the exact scripture were romans says you cannot reject God after your saved
"

Sure romans 11:29

shimon wonderful post bro

also a good verse to accompany some stuff you said

1John 2:3-6

3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love[2] is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

and good stuff outa james also



James 2:26
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.



but alot of times we do think on this to hard because if we are truely seeking to serve God and give him our whole life he will use us

he does guide our footsteps and we need to remember free will only applies to issues of salvation (wich is more often than we think)

some think that once they accept God they are saved forever were in reality it is a constant battle and struggle but we have to remember God is there to help us all the way by covering up our mistakes and laying out the path for us