Conservatism: How is it a viable political position?

Probably because:
1. She's in a less populated area
or
2. She's never had a serious issue needing a specialist etc

SpyridonOCA said:

If that is true, why is are is there rationing and waiting lists?

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There are waiting lists for doctors here in the US. There is a world-wide shortage of medical personell and trained medical staff. This is a WORLD WIDE problem, not just in Universal Healthcare

It's ironic that this whole so called "free market economy" is touted as an economic godsend, when in reality and truth, there is no "free market": the term freedom is bandied around like a worn-out, used-up cheerleader. By those so called "free marketeers", the free market means that large companies are free to create monopolies and conglomerates that eat every up, with no controls.

I know someone living in Sweden with universal health care that can't find a psychiatrist that will give him ADD medication. He's looking for a over the counter alternative to combat the attention problems that make college difficult.

This thread really wandered off - in terms of healthcare, ALL people need some form of guaranteed healthcare, including both conservatives and liberals. S'funny how so many conservative politicians take advantage of government and military-sponsored health care programs, yet keep voting on cuts for veterans!!! Go figure.

christalee4 said:

It's ironic that this whole so called "free market economy" is touted as an economic godsend, when in reality and truth, there is no "free market": the term freedom is bandied around like a worn-out, used-up cheerleader. By those so called "free marketeers", the free market means that large companies are free to create monopolies and conglomerates that eat every up, with no controls.

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Give me a example of this monopoly you are talking of.

The only monopoly you can truly prove that has happened in a free market wasn't even a bad company. US Steel brought some of the best steel and it brought the best product and US steel built America.

The fact of the matter is, a free market stops imperialism. Say one thing about Iraq and your stupid.

Steezie said:

There are waiting lists for doctors here in the US. There is a world-wide shortage of medical personell and trained medical staff. This is a WORLD WIDE problem, not just in Universal Healthcare

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Doctor shortages in other countries are caused by different factors than shortages in this country.

There is a shortage of doctors (in this country) because medical schools purposefully don't admit students that would make perfectly good doctors. They do this in order to make doctors scarce and thus their graduates can charge more, and thus make more money by educating some of them.

Legally we have many thousands of doctors in this country who have medical degrees from abroad. These people are not allowed to practice medicine though because the government also makes the licensing of foreign doctors harder than it needs to be at the behest of these same medical schools. They end up driving cabs.

Of course this is not a conservative or liberal problem because neither specifically promotes collusion between government and industry in this way (it just sort of happens under corrupt governments) and I have found few people who promote this sort of thing.

GodGunsAndGlory said:

Give me a example of this monopoly you are talking of.

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# U.S. Steel; anti-trust prosecution failed in 1911.
# Standard Oil; broken up in 1911.
# National Football League; survived anti-trust lawsuit in the 1960s, convicted of being an illegal monopoly in the 1980s.
# Major League Baseball; survived U.S. anti-trust litigation in 1922, though its special status is still in dispute as of 2008.
# United Aircraft and Transport Corporation; aircraft manufacturer holding company forced to divest itself of airlines in 1934.
# American Telephone & Telegraph; telecommunications giant broken up in 1982.
# Microsoft; settled anti-trust litigation in the U.S. in 2001; fined by the European Commission in 2004, which was upheld for the most part by the Court of First Instance of the European Communities in 2007. The fine was 1.35 Billion USD in 2008 for incompliance with the 2004 rule.
# De Beers; settled charges of price fixing in the diamond trade in the 2000s.
# Joint Commission; has a monopoly over whether or not US hospitals are able to participate in the Medicare and Medicaid programs.
# Telecom New Zealand; local loop unbundling enforced by central government.
# Monsanto has been sued by competitors for anti-trust and monopolistic practices. They hold between 70% and 100% of the commercial seed market.

The only monopoly you can truly prove that has happened in a free market wasn't even a bad company. US Steel brought some of the best steel and it brought the best product and US steel built America.

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Monopolies by private enterprises are NEVER good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto

The fact of the matter is, a free market stops imperialism. Say one thing about Iraq and your stupid.

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Fine, Afghanistan, Latin America, Asia, Africa

http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.cfm?lesson=EM628&page=teacher

When monopolies make efforts to cut down on smaller competition, that is not "free market". That is unfair business practice, and if it involves a needed consumer service such as gas, energy, food, and health care, then we get into moral issues. But apparently morality is not part of business. So much for God.

variant said:

There is a shortage of doctors (in this country) because medical schools purposefully don't admit students that would make perfectly good doctors. They do this in order to make doctors scarce and thus their graduates can charge more, and thus make more money by educating some of them.

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Huh. I think Doctors in the less glamorous feilds would disagree...

An article on Forbes, about how hard it can be for Doctors to re-pay student loans, deal with insurance companies and protect themselves from frivilious malpractice suits...
http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/physicians-training-prospects-lead-careers-cx_tw_0505doctors.html

And of course, commentary from some of the more popular DocBlogs. Kevin MD and a few others can be found from this blog about Rural Doctoring...
http://www.ruraldoctoring.com/2008/...true-face-of-physician-compensation.html#more

But how are medical schools, keeping perfectly good Doctors out of school? These cats can't place on the MCAT or something?

Legally we have many thousands of doctors in this country who have medical degrees from abroad. These people are not allowed to practice medicine though because the government also makes the licensing of foreign doctors harder than it needs to be at the behest of these same medical schools. They end up driving cabs.

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What are the exact hoops they have to jump through? I just thought they had to pass the USLME Steps and match into a Residency.

Philodox said:

Huh. I think Doctors in the less glamorous feilds would disagree...

An article on Forbes, about how hard it can be for Doctors to re-pay student loans, deal with insurance companies and protect themselves from frivilious malpractice suits...
http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/physicians-training-prospects-lead-careers-cx_tw_0505doctors.html

And of course, commentary from some of the more popular DocBlogs. Kevin MD and a few others can be found from this blog about Rural Doctoring...
http://www.ruraldoctoring.com/2008/...true-face-of-physician-compensation.html#more

But how are medical schools, keeping perfectly good Doctors out of school? These cats can't place on the MCAT or something?

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These points have nothing to do with the issue. The fact that doctors have a hard time paying back loans simply means that the price for going to medical school is very high in the US. It is high because there are only so many spots and the medical schools can charge enough that doctors have a hard time paying them back even on their salaries.
http://www.temple.edu/healthadvising/medman.html

The point is, not everyone who has a good chance at becoming a good doctor is admitted because the number of spots are kept artificially low.


http://www.temple.edu/healthadvising/medman.html

Application to medical school is an emotionally demanding and time-consuming process made more difficult by the fact that medical schools are becoming increasingly competitive. In 1997, there were approximately 46,600 applications for the 16,253 slots available for first year medical students. In other words, only about 35% of the people who apply to medical school were admitted. This is an all-time low and is due, in great part, to a 55% increase in medical school applications over the past four years while the number of positions remains the same. To become a successful medical school applicant, you will need to plan ahead, be organized, and utilize the resources available.

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While the number of people applying for medical school is increasing astronomically due to more college graduates of pre-med programs the number of positions in medical school lags behind and remains fairly constant.

What are the exact hoops they have to jump through? I just thought they had to pass the USLME Steps and match into a Residency.

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You have to have graduated from a recognized medical school to be approved for a residency, or go back to medical school. It doesn’t matter how long you've been practicing medicine, or how stellar you have done, either your college is on the list or you go back through medical school in which only about 1/4 of them even get in if they apply to in the United States.

http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/archive/2007-05/2007-05-30-voa2.cfm

SpyridonOCA said:

Liberals are ignorant for placing their trust in government, despite its track record of corruption, abuse, and failure. The conservative, in being realistic, is never disappointed.

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In an excerpt from his new book, Practicing Medicine Without a License, Don Sloan, M.D., shows that members of Congress enjoy health coverage with unlimited doctor visits, no deductibles and no co-pays -- all for $35 a month. So what about the rest of us?

http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/56439/

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A conservative has held office in the White House for 20 of the last 28 years and the Republicans controlled the 109th "do nothing" Congress - so why haven't they led by example and abolished their own government healthcare system.

The GOP is good at telling the American public that healthcare belongs in the private sector - but I have yet to hear of a Republican member of the White House, Congress or "rightist" Supreme Court justice refuse to accept their government healthcare based on conservative principles.

Conservatives "talk a good line" about denouncing trust in government - but who do you think will be paying the medical bills for Bush(s), Cheney, Dole, McCain, etc. for the rest of their lives.

variant said:

These points have nothing to do with the issue.

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They don't eh? Okay.

variant said:

The fact that doctors have a hard time paying back loans simply means that the price for going to medical school is very high in the US. It is high because there are only so many spots and the medical schools can charge enough that doctors have a hard time paying them back even on their salaries.

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Well, give it some thought. Physcian Assistants and Advance Practice Nurses are quickly closeing the salary gap with Family Physcians, because they don't have the same issues with insurance companies and litigation.

variant said:

The point is, not everyone who has a good chance at becoming a good doctor is admitted because the number of spots are kept artificially low.

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From one of my articles that "didn't have anything to do with the issue. "

Forbes said:

The solutions are widespread. Nine new medical schools are under development or discussion, according to the Liaison Committee on Medical Education, which accredits medical schools. The AAMC estimates that almost 800 first-year students will attend these new schools in the academic year 2012-2013, based on future enrollment figures.

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But to be honest, I'm glad Medical School is so competitive. The amount of trust one gives to Doctors is immense. If someone really really wants to be an MD ( You haven't adressed DOs either ) then they will rise to the standard and get what they want. Or they won't tough it out.

Variant said:

You have to have graduated from a recognized medical school to be approved for a residency, or go back to medical school.

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Sounds like great quality control.

Variant said:

It doesn’t matter how long you've been practicing medicine

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Thank goodness. I wouldn't want someone who has been practicing sub standard medicine to use his 6 years of bad work as an excuse not to graduated from a decent school.

Variant said:

or how stellar you have done

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Awesome. I'm glad they threw that out the window, that would be pretty hard to measure.

jgarden said:

A conservative has held office in the White House for 20 of the last 28 years and the Republicans controlled the 109th "do nothing" Congress - so why haven't they led by example and abolished their own government healthcare system.

The GOP is good at telling the American public that healthcare belongs in the private sector - but I have yet to hear of a Republican member of the White House, Congress or "rightist" Supreme Court justice refuse to accept their government healthcare based on conservative principles.

Conservatives "talk a good line" about denouncing trust in government - but who do you think will be paying the medical bills for Bush(s), Cheney, Dole, McCain, etc. for the rest of their lives.

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I agree and I don't. The "Goverment Healthcare" they receive is part of the benefits package of the job, like any other employer uses. So I'm not sure why you think they should reject the healthcare out of hand...


But I do agree, that the Republican party has done a terrible job getting things done in congress. They have done very little, in my opinion, to fix the problems in healthcare.