Conservatism: How is it a viable political position?

mont974x4 · Jun 11, 2008

As opposed to the high expectations of liberals like the destruction of our nation for the of globalization?

SpyridonOCA · Jun 11, 2008

mont974x4 said:
As opposed to the high expectations of liberals like the destruction of our nation for the of globalization?

Liberals support globalization.

Philodox · Jun 11, 2008

SpyridonOCA said:
Liberals support globalization.

So do I!

Steezie · Jun 11, 2008

SpyridonOCA said:
Liberals support globalization.

If it can be carried out without the exploitation and abuse of native peoples, workers, and domestic citizens, yes we progressives support a global network of humanity

mont974x4 · Jun 11, 2008

I beleive in working together and fair trade practices...not giving our soveriegnty (and destroying our national identity) to the likes of the UN or similar organizations.

dlamberth · Jun 11, 2008

Wyzaard said:
Why? What exactly is "universal individual freedom", and how does this jell with human interpersonal instincts and social construction? What is 'property', and how/why does it figure into this discussion?

I can tell by how much it cost me for medical insurance, gas, food, electricity and housing that in truth I'm a slave to those corporate giants that I pay all of my money to. Conservatives like it like that.

.

SpyridonOCA · Jun 11, 2008

Steezie said:
If it can be carried out without the exploitation and abuse of native peoples, workers, and domestic citizens, yes we progressives support a global network of humanity

That's what you say in your rhetoric. Liberal politicians do otherwise.

mont974x4 · Jun 11, 2008

Just wait til you see the cost of the basic needs under socialism.

SpyridonOCA · Jun 11, 2008

mont974x4 said:
I beleive in working together and fair trade practices...not giving our soveriegnty (and destroying our national identity) to the likes of the UN or similar organizations.

True conservatives are against the UN and similar organizations. It was the Republicans who protested the United Nations and a liberal Democrat who formed it.

mont974x4 · Jun 11, 2008

There's not many things I'd enjoy more than kicking the UN out of the US and have the US leave both the UN and NATO.....but, we're going in the opposite direction with the North American Union and the SPP deals.

dlamberth · Jun 11, 2008

mont974x4 said:
Just wait til you see the cost of the basic needs under socialism.

For medical, real life statics around the world just do not bear that out.

We have THE most expensive medical health care system in the world with one of the highest child mortality rates among the industialized nations. Per capita we spend twice as much as the next nation. As a part of our we spend 13.6% LINK

.

SpyridonOCA · Jun 11, 2008

The truth about "free" healthcare is that everyone pays, and many are left out due to rationing.

Health Care Is Not A Right

by Leonard Peikoff, Ph.D. Delivered at a Town Hall Meeting on the Clinton Health Plan. Red Lion Hotel, Costa Mesa CA. December 11, 1993

Most people who oppose socialized medicine do so on the grounds that it is moral and well-intentioned, but impractical; i.e., it is a noble idea -- which just somehow does not work. I do not agree that socialized medicine is moral and well-intentioned, but impractical. Of course, it is impractical -- it does not work -- but I hold that it is impractical because it is immoral. This is not a case of noble in theory but a failure in practice; it is a case of vicious in theory and therefore a disaster in practice. So I'm going to leave it to other speakers to concentrate on the practical flaws in the Clinton health plan. I want to focus on the moral issue at stake. So long as people believe that socialized medicine is a noble plan, there is no way to fight it. You cannot stop a noble plan -- not if it really is noble. The only way you can defeat it is to unmask it -- to show that it is the very opposite of noble. Then at least you have a fighting chance...

What is morality in this context? The American concept of it is officially stated in the Declaration of Independence. It upholds man's unalienable, individual rights. The term "rights," note, is a moral (not just a political) term; it tells us that a certain course of behavior is right, sanctioned, proper, a prerogative to be respected by others, not interfered with -- and that anyone who violates a man's rights is: wrong, morally wrong, unsanctioned, evil.
Now our only rights, the American viewpoint continues, are the rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. That's all. According to the Founding Fathers, we are not born with a right to a trip to Disneyland, or a meal at Mcdonald's, or a kidney dialysis (nor with the 18th-century equivalent of these things). We have certain specific rights -- and only these...
http://www.bdt.com/pages/Peikoff.html

mont974x4 · Jun 11, 2008

dlamberth said:
For medical, real life statics around the world just do not bear that out.

We have THE most expensive medical health care system in the world with one of the highest child mortality rates among the industialized nations. Per capita we spend twice as much as the next nation. As a part of our we spend 13.6% LINK

.

Yeah, get rid of the FDA and get the government out of it and prices will drop. Also, people need to use health insurance like they do car insurance...for emergency situations, not routine maintenance.

Ask your doctor if he has a discount if you pay cash up front, there's quite a few that do.

Cost is not always measured in dollars. And child mortality rates are a small piece of the the pie.

There's a reason many of my Canadian friends come to the US (at their own expense) for health care. And there's a reason I won't use VA health care for my service connected disability and choose to pay out of pocket and with private insurance.

TheNewWorldMan · Jun 11, 2008

SpyridonOCA said:
The truth about "free" health care is that everyone pays, and many are left out due to rationing.

The truth about private healthcare is that some are unable to pay, and are therefore left out due to rationing.

mont974x4 · Jun 11, 2008

Actually by law anyone with a real need has to be seen. And unless you have a massive outstanding hospital debt I have never seen someone turned away and demands to pay upfront are very rare.

And there's plenty of private organizations (like churches) that can and do help.

I don't see how rationing enters the discussion.

SpyridonOCA · Jun 11, 2008

If we didn't have the belief that government is responsible to take care of our problems, how many doctors would provide treatment at a reduced cost?

Lanakila · Jun 11, 2008

Socialized medicine as well as other socialistic ideas sound wonderful in theory but in practice they don't work all that great. As military dependent I had govt run and operated health care for many years and you get what you pay for folks. That is the reality of life. If your health care is free it's going to be often subpar and have waiting lists and if the govt has anything to do with it it's going to be a paperwork nightmare. Have you folks ever seen the movie: The Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy? In it the earth is blown up by the Volgon's who are lovers of govt bureaucracy and paperwork. Anything the US govt touches turns into a paperwork nightmare and computers must have hard copy backups don't you know.

Lanakila · Jun 11, 2008

All those bureaucrats have to justify their jobs btw. Plus the person who has put in the time, money, and effort to have a high skilled career does indeed deserve a higher pay than a kid that didn't even graduate from HS.

CCGirl · Jun 11, 2008

This is not how Universal care works!! I dont see any paper work. You show your health care card and that is it. You are free to see any doctor you wish. Nothing has to be approved, except by the doctor, of course.

SpyridonOCA · Jun 11, 2008

If that is true, why is are is there rationing and waiting lists?

Conservatism: How is it a viable political position?

The Christian Anarchist

Well-Known Member

Member

Steezie

Guest

The Christian Anarchist

Senior Contributor

Well-Known Member

The Christian Anarchist

Well-Known Member

The Christian Anarchist

Senior Contributor

Well-Known Member

The Christian Anarchist

phased plasma rifle in 40-watt range

The Christian Anarchist

Well-Known Member

Not responsible for the changes here.

Not responsible for the changes here.

Resident Commie

Well-Known Member

Similar threads