If life is found on Mars.

consol · Jun 2, 2008

Tomk80 said:
How do you know? What are your calculations? I have asked creationists time and again what their calculations are for claiming that the natural origins of life are so improbable to be impossible, but you make a claim here that is just as unsubstantiated.

We don't know how life started on earth, or how many earth-like planets we can expect in the galaxy. Sure, it would surprise me if there wasn't any other life in the universe looking at the current research on abiogenesis. But claiming we know this and claiming the "zero's stretch a mile" seems to be far beyond our current knowledge.

Your point?

My calculations are this:
against, has 1 zero,
for, has a mile of zero's.

People say it would be like winning a WORLD wide lottery, it's not even like winning a GALAXY wide lottery,
because YOU don't need to be the winner just as long as SOMEONE wins, if SOMEONE wins, life has started,
and with BILLIONS and BILLIONS of possibilities, it's virtually inevitable.

My point with the millions and billions, is that people do not understand LARGE numbers, LONG distances or LONG times,
creationists just can not grasp the fact that the earth and the universe has been here for a long long time,
it's the same as the difference between the Brits and Americans, Brits think a hundred miles is a long way,
Americans think a hundred years is a long time, but both are relative to where they are coming from,
when it comes to the size and age of the universe, both are infinitesimal.

1 light year is about 5,878,625,373,183.61 miles, and the nearest star to us (apart from the Sun) is 4.2421 light years away,
in Stella terms, it's in the next room.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been calculated that:
If the life of the earth was condensed into 24 hours, we have been here for about 2 (or is it) 8 seconds.

AV1611VET · Jun 2, 2008

consol said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong,
If the life of the earth was condensed into 24 hours, we have been here for about 2 (or is it) 8 seconds.

86,400 seconds.

consol · Jun 2, 2008

AV1611VET said:
86,400 seconds.

I take it that's according to the KJ book written in 1611?

Tomk80 · Jun 2, 2008

consol said:
My calculations are this:
against, has 1 zero,
for, has a mile of zero's.

In other words, rubbish.

People say it would be like winning a WORLD wide lottery, it's not even like winning a GALAXY wide lottery,
because YOU don't need to be the winner just as long as SOMEONE wins, if SOMEONE wins, life has started,
and with BILLIONS and BILLIONS of possibilities, it's virtually inevitable.

But you don't know there are billions of possibilities. You don't know what is required for life to start and how common places with this requirement are. I agree that it is very likely that life has started somewhere else, based on what we know now. But the very fact of the matter is that we know very little.

My point with the millions and billions, is that people do not understand LARGE numbers, LONG distances or LONG times,
creationists just can not grasp the fact that the earth and the universe has been here for a long long time,
it's the same as the difference between the Brits and Americans, Brits think a hundred miles is a long way,
Americans think a hundred years is a long time, but both are relative to where they are coming from,
when it comes to the size and age of the universe, both are infinitesimal.

1 light year is about 5,878,625,373,183.61 miles, and the nearest star to us (apart from the Sun) is 4.2421 light years away,
in Stella terms, it's in the next room.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been calculated that:
If the life of the earth was condensed into 24 hours, we have been here for about 2 (or is it) 8 seconds.

Cute. Completely irrelevant to the question asked by the poster you responded to, as you had no indication that this poster had trouble with imagining this large distances and time spans, but cute nonetheless. Inept also. But cute.

AV1611VET · Jun 2, 2008

consol said:
I take it that's according to the KJ book written in 1611?

You bet!

Molal · Jun 2, 2008

AV1611VET said:
86,400 seconds.

Not even the bible teaches this. The earth was formed prior to life being created.....thus condensing life on earth into 24 hours would not mean the earth has been populated for it's entirety.

AintNoMonkey · Jun 2, 2008

consol said:
My calculations are this:
against, has 1 zero,
for, has a mile of zero's.

It doesn't matter what the odds are or what your calculations say, we don't know there is ET life until we encounter it or a remnant of it.

Come on man, you need to work on this kind of crap. How do you not see what's wrong with this?

AV1611VET · Jun 2, 2008

Molal said:
Not even the bible teaches this. The earth was formed prior to life being created.....thus condensing life on earth into 24 hours would not mean the earth has been populated for it's entirety.

Ya --- I thought of that, but didn't want to do the math.

6100 years = 2,226,500 days = 2 seconds

- therefore -

Existence of man = 2,226,494 days = 1.9999946103750280709633954637323 seconds

consol · Jun 3, 2008

Tomk80 said:
But you don't know there are billions of possibilities. You don't know what is required for life to start and how common places with this requirement are. I agree that it is very likely that life has started somewhere else, based on what we know now. But the very fact of the matter is that we know very little.

Life started on this planet, and this planet is just one of BILLIONS and BILLIONS of planets in the universe,
so whatever the conditions required there is at least millions out there that comply to those conditions,
or don't you agree there are BILLIONS and BILLIONS of planets out there?

What we must understand, is that the distances are so great, even if the universe was teeming with life,
like the light from the stars (half of which might not be there now) the knowledge of them might not reach us before we are destroyed,
take a look around the world, something must be done about the population, there are just too many people,
a world famine is on the cards, energy is running out, and the end is nigh, not because of some mythical God,
but because we are using up resources and replacing them with poisons.

If creationists are right and we have only been here for 6000 years, we will be lucky to last another couple of 100,
but that won't bother us, will it? we will all be long gone.

consol · Jun 10, 2008

In the world of the religious, truth counts for nothing, belief is the only thing that counts for anything,
in fact, belief conquers ALL.

Tomk80 · Jun 10, 2008

consol said:
Life started on this planet, and this planet is just one of BILLIONS and BILLIONS of planets in the universe,
so whatever the conditions required there is at least millions out there that comply to those conditions,
or don't you agree there are BILLIONS and BILLIONS of planets out there?

There probably are. We don't know, but it is very probable. But then, you would need a planet with certain circumstances and if those circumstances are exceedingly rare (1 over billions of billions) we might be the only one.

What we must understand, is that the distances are so great, even if the universe was teeming with life,
like the light from the stars (half of which might not be there now) the knowledge of them might not reach us before we are destroyed,

Yes, the distances are great and that we haven't found life, does not mean it is not there. What you have to realize is that this does not miraculously mean that there has to be more life out there. If distances can be great, amounts of stars can be enourmous and numbers of planets beyond imagination, the same way chances can be unimaginably small.

To know the chance of there being other life in the universe you need to know the chance of a planet forming that is suitable for life, and the chance of life forming whenever such a planet has formed. Neither of those chances are known. If those chances are very low (1 in billions for each), then we might be the only one even if the number of planets is unimaginably high.

<snipped rest of useless rant

Do you always find a need to include more irrelevancies in your rants? Stick to the topic. I'm not a creationist, remember. You can skip all references to creationist, what they believe or what you think they have to believe if you discuss with me. Good? Great.

Tomk80 · Jun 10, 2008

consol said:
In the world of the religious, truth counts for nothing, belief is the only thing that counts for anything,
in fact, belief conquers ALL.

How does this differ from the attitude you display here?

consol · Jun 10, 2008

Tomk80 said:
How does this differ from the attitude you display here?

Religious beliefs require no proof of a God, or the creation, or anything to do with a God,
if a person is religious, no amount of proof against what they believe will sway them from their belief,
religion brings with it, blindness and deafness,(or the ability to close ones ears) gullibility, hope, and fear,
me, I always require proof, a story will just not do it for me, sad but true.

When someone does something that you know is impossible, you smell a trick,
you do not think, 'Miracle', and you certainly do not think 'God can do anything',
children might think that, but not adults.

"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things."
I Cor. 13. 11.

The_Master · Jun 10, 2008

AV1611VET said:
Ya --- I thought of that, but didn't want to do the math.

6100 years = 2,226,500 days = 2 seconds

- therefore -

Existence of man = 2,226,494 days = 1.9999946103750280709633954637323 seconds

You can't even do simple math

IF the earth was in existence for 2,226,500 Days as you claim
And Mans existence was 2,226,494 Days
You would divide the Existence of Man over the Existence of the Earth
2,226,494/2,226,500 = 0.99999730518751403548169773186616
Then Calculate the Time (I love Time

)
0.99999730518751403548169773186616 * 24 Hours in a day.
23 Hours 59 Minutes 59.7671682012126656186840332224 Seconds
Would be the Time man existed IF you were correct.
Only problem is all of creation is screaming at you that you are flat out wrong.

Tomk80 · Jun 10, 2008

consol said:
<snip blabla>
me, I always require proof, a story will just not do it for me, sad but true.

Like in this thread? When I ask you to back up the numbers you give on the probability of life. All you have presented on that is a story.

blablabla

consol · Jun 10, 2008

Tomk80 said:
Like in this thread? When I ask you to back up the numbers you give on the probability of life. All you have presented on that is a story.

What numbers did you ask for? I already said there were BILLIONS and BILLIONS of planets, how many more would you need?

And everything is blahblah to you religious nuts, as I said religion causes blindness and deafness.

MasterOfKrikkit · Jun 10, 2008

consol said:
What numbers did you ask for? I already said there were BILLIONS and BILLIONS of planets, how many more would you need?

An infinite number, if you wanted proof (which is what you said). Or, of course, just actual proof, like "here's an alien, his name's J'kpwogle". Tomk80's point was pretty simple to grasp: you say you want proof of things, not stories, but in this thread you've made claims for which you can't furnish proof. :doh:

And everything is blahblah to you religious nuts, as I said religion causes blindness and deafness.

Apparently, so does atheism, in your case: Tomk80's an atheist. :doh:

consol · Jun 10, 2008

Your collective stupidity has beaten me, I concede.

AV1611VET · Jun 10, 2008

AV1611VET said:
Ya --- I thought of that, but didn't want to do the math.

6100 years = 2,226,500 days = 2 seconds

- therefore -

Existence of man = 2,226,494 days = 1.9999946103750280709633954637323 seconds

The_Master said:
You can't even do simple math

IF the earth was in existence for 2,226,500 Days as you claim
And Mans existence was 2,226,494 Days
You would divide the Existence of Man over the Existence of the Earth
2,226,494/2,226,500 = 0.99999730518751403548169773186616
Then Calculate the Time (I love Time )
0.99999730518751403548169773186616 * 24 Hours in a day.
23 Hours 59 Minutes 59.7671682012126656186840332224 Seconds
Would be the Time man existed IF you were correct.

If 6100 years = 2 seconds, how long is [6100 years - 4 days]?

fromdownunder · Jun 11, 2008

consol said:
Your collective stupidity has beaten me, I concede.

I must say that this is the first time I have ever seen a request for supporting evidence, instead of the blind assertions that you have made = "collective stupidity".

Your basic point seems to have been there are lots of other planets out there, therefore life must exist elsewhere.

This is simply a statement of faith, not dissimilar to theistic faith (i.e., we are here, therefore God), and completely unsupportable without evidence. Unless you can support such statements (apart from, hey guys, these are really, really big numbers, so aliens MUST exist), you are preaching.

At the moment we have evidence that life exists. That would be us. We have zero evidence that life exists anywhere else. It really is that simple. Saying it must exist elsewhere is simply an appeal (not unlike theism), not evidence.

There is no evidence that there are alien life forms, either early or advanced. There is no evidence that there are not alien life forms. "I don't know", which I don't, is a perfectly acceptable answer, and pretty much in line with rational thinking.

Norm

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