Why I am doing this

How is it anti-dawah to tell someone what he supposedly believes?

Secundulus said:

If he is honest in saying he respects us then he has to reject the teachings of Islam to do so.

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How do you figure? I can respect a Christian and still believe in my religion. Or does this only apply to Muslims?

It is your mosques, in New Jersey and the UK, that post classes on the internet that equate me with a pig as being unclean.

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Do you really need me to dig up the Christian websites that call Atheists "hopeless idiots", unwed mothers "whoremongers" and gays and lesbians "perverted sodomites"?

If I were to teach my children that after using the bathroom or touching a Muslim they must wash in order to be acceptable to God, then what do you think they will think about Muslims or Islam in general.

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How do these legalistic observances differ from the old Levitical laws for the Jews?

If he wants to come on and say he unequivocally rejects Islamic cleanliness laws then I will apologize for attacking him and his post.

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Why the need to attack in the first place? I never saw anywhere in the OP where he stated he observed cleanliness laws. I didn't even see a verse that laid out the prescribed manner in which cleanliness laws should be used. None. You were the one who attacked him and assumed that because he is a Muslim that he would have to wash his hands after shaking yours.

I'll tell you what. If you refused to reject the belief that Wiccans worship Satan by default, does that give me a right to attack you personally?

Seculdulus, who appointed you to be the official spokesperson of my religion?

Secundulus said:

I only quote what I read from Islamic websites. If you can show me they are wrong then I stand corrected.

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Do you get this information from actual Islamic websites, or do you find this information on websites with names such as "God's Hope for Muslims"? There is a big difference.

Uh, if I touch my *muslim* husband, that breaks my wudu, and I must wash again. If my husband touches his *muslim* wife, that breaks his wudu and he must wash again.

In fact, the husband and I were just joking about how we should become hanafis when we're going to bed. It's good to sleep in wudu, but virtually impossible to accomplish if you're a shafi'i, hanbali, maliki or salafi, since a little pre-sleep cuddling throws the wudu right out the window. If we morphed into hanafis when we got into bed, we could do the cuddling and not break our wudu, as they're the only school of thought in sunni islam that doesn't hold that a man touching a woman and vice versa breaks wudu.

Crude, yes. Childish, yes. Incomplete, yes. Inaccurate, no. I've seen plenty of cruddy power point presentations in my day from people of all faiths. The more clip art, the better!

Just because something breaks ones wudu does not make it a bad thing. My husband certainly isn't bad, and he's responsible for breaking my wudu 9 times out of 10. Using the restroom, passing gas, having one's period, bleeding, touching people, touching animals, falling asleep, these are all natural things. There's no sin in doing them. You just have to wash when you do it.

I'm not sure how valid a thread this is, since it seems (to me) to be referencing a thread that's currently being vetted.

KatAutumn said:

Do you really need me to dig up the Christian websites that call Atheists "hopeless idiots", unwed mothers "whoremongers" and gays and lesbians "perverted sodomites"?

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First, I'd prefer those sites not get the traffic. Although clips can be found on youtube of a certain Kansas church, should one want to reference those.

Second, when those sites have been brought up in the past they were either discounted as "an unorthodox group" or presented as "the true word of Gawahd, who doesn't truck with thet thar ecumenism, pluralism, and heresy."

Secundulus said:

Knowing that I am a conservative and orthodox Christian, if I were to say that I respected paganism, would you not suspect I was lying?

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Yes, although I would like to argue that there's a difference between "respecting" and "embracing." Which the videos and teachings you mentioned are purportedly neither. I haven't seen these videos, hence the "purportedly."

Secundulus said:

There can be only one! Highlander

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A movie about someone achieving metaphysical prowess through ritualized combat. Good thing my irony meter goes to eleven.

rahma said:

Crude, yes. Childish, yes. Incomplete, yes. Inaccurate, no. I've seen plenty of cruddy power point presentations in my day from people of all faiths. The more clip art, the better!

Just because something breaks ones wudu does not make it a bad thing. My husband certainly isn't bad, and he's responsible for breaking my wudu 9 times out of 10. Using the restroom, passing gas, having one's period, bleeding, touching people, touching animals, falling asleep, these are all natural things. There's no sin in doing them. You just have to wash when you do it.

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Oh wait I just realized something, my ex used to wash up before he prayed and I couldn't hug him or anything. After words it was okay, so why was that?

PassionFruit said:

Oh wait I just realized something, my ex used to wash up before he prayed and I couldn't hug him or anything. After words it was okay, so why was that?

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Washing up = making wudu, getting your ritual purity in place for prayer. Afterwards, a hug would break the wudu, but unless he's going to pray again, he really doesn't need it.

While it's nice to keep it at all times, it's not required, and most people (that I know of) don't keep their wudu unless they have to pray, or don't think that they'll be able to make wudu before the next time they have to pray.

Secundulus said:

Does your religion teach that you have to wash after relieving yourself or after having touched an infidel?

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It's just good hygiene to wash after using the bathroom. I do know that Muslims must be thoroughly clean prior to prayer, which means they would have to wash anyway, not necessarily because they have touched a non-Muslim.

Knowing that I am a conservative and orthodox Christian, if I were to say that I respected paganism, would you not suspect I was lying?

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I feel there is a difference between respecting the religion and respecting the religious. I'll be the first to admit that there are many Christians I have little respect for, but I respect their right to worship and believe as they feel lead. I'm oftentimes not given the same courtesy.

I agree. I don't quote from anti-Islamic websites. I got it off the website of a mosque in New Jersey, A mosque in the UK, and off the website of the Ayatollah al Sistani.

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I remember reading a news report that in the UK, there was a problem with one of the books they were teaching children from in Islamic schools. I believe it was written by a professed Islamic scholar who referred to Jews as "apes" and Christians as "pigs". I don't believe those phrases were used in the Koran. I could be wrong, though. I'm not a Muslim, nor do I have any intentions of becoming one.

I just feel that using loaded and emotive language in a debate can become dicey very quickly. You stated that Faris teaches his children to call Christians pigs and that he teaches his children they must wash their hands after being in contact with non-Muslims. We don't know if Faris follows the methods of cleanliness that some extremist sects do.

Rahma said:

Using the restroom, passing gas, having one's period, bleeding, touching people, touching animals, falling asleep, these are all natural things. There's no sin in doing them. You just have to wash when you do it.

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Thank you for sharing this, Rahma. It's interesting to note that many religions observe ritual cleanliness. In Wicca, most Wiccans partake of a ritual bath and wear clean robes prior to prayer and ritual in order to enter the Sacred Circle in a purified state.

I remember reading a discussion about menstruation and a woman's "time of uncleanliness" and whether or not this means the woman is in a state of sin when she is menstruating. An Orthodox Jewish woman explained that even though menstruation was one of Eve's punishments for leading Adam into sin, it doesn't mean a woman is sinful while she is menstruating. She is just considered "unclean".

Fuzzy said:

Second, when those sites have been brought up in the past they were either discounted as "an unorthodox group" or presented as "the true word of Gawahd, who doesn't truck with thet thar ecumenism, pluralism, and heresy."

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True, although I actually wasn't going to link to good 'ol Freddy Phelps and his ilk. There are many sites online that are praised by fundamental conservative Christians that use some pretty offensive language to describe unwed mothers, practitioners of Witchcraft, homosexuals, Atheists, etc.

Secundulus said:

I would also like to point out that there is a difference between respecting a person and respecting what they believe. It is entirely possible to respect a person while at the same time categorically rejecting their religion.

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Touche.

Secundulus said:

Great movie though, don't you think.

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Yes. Though my VHS copy is getting old and had a lot of red tone bleed to begin with.

One of these days I'll take a list with me to a DVD store.

KatAutumn said:

There are many sites online that are praised by fundamental conservative Christians that use some pretty offensive language to describe unwed mothers, practitioners of Witchcraft, homosexuals, Atheists, etc.

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Not too long ago, we called those sites "newspapers."

And Rahma, sometimes we wear pea coats to ritual, too. Snap cold fronts with rain are not fun.

Random thing: RadioSatan666 is currently playing The Token's "The Lion Sleeps Tonight."