Obama pro/con (3)

fated said:

Because of the unique properties of marriage, that is, the generation and formation of children, it is an injustice to introduce other institutions into the system, especially with regards to fiduciary programs.

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So I ask again: How many years can a married couple remain childless before their marriage license is revoked?

I find it altogether likely that women's suffrage decreased the role of married women in political decisions. At the same time, it focused attention on the poorest and weakest in society and allowed them access to those things they should have.

IzzyPop said:

So I ask again: How many years can a married couple remain childless before their marriage license is revoked?

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Fertility is a private matter.

Lisa0315 said:

I am not voting for him because of his voting record on the issues that are important to me. I actually like and respect him as a person especially the way he handled the Wright incidents. I am not going to be crazy upset when he is President, but I just cannot in good conscience vote for him because of these issues. (Abortion, Stem Cell Research, and Gay Marriage)

Lisa

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I respect your reasons but in reality these are issues whose time have come - even a neoConservative Administration for the last 2 terms, a Republican Congress from 2000 to 2006 and a conservative dominated Supreme Court hasn't stemmed the "tide."

The Republicans couldn't reverse "Roe vs Wade" or prevent legalizing "gay marriage" in California and Massachuetts. Now New York State is preparing to recognize "gay marriages" conducted out-of-state.

US companies will simply conduct "stem cell" research outside US borders, but will a Republican Administration and conservative then deny themselves, their families and other American citizens the right to accept the subsequent benefits derived from medical breakthroughs?

There are far more productive issues in this election where Christians could make a difference.

fated said:

Fertility is a private matter.

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Not if you are basing marriage law on it. Why can infertile different sexed couples get married when a lesbian couple visiting a sperm donor cannot?

fated said:

Fertility is a private issue.

Who should raise a child? Ah, yes, their mother and father in a stable environment... Looks like what marriage typically is. Should we introduce an unequal atypical exception into the case as a social program?

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Oh...a "should." I recall stating that same-sex couples are perfectly capable of raising equally well adjusted children as heterosexual couples and saying you can have the cites if desired. As you didn't ask, I presume you accept the above as an empirical fact. Ergo, this statement above borders on (if not crosses the line) being a lie.

IzzyPop said:

Not if you are basing marriage law on it. Why can infertile different sexed couples get married when a lesbian couple visiting a sperm donor cannot?

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(1) You'll notice that the couples child's situation is different. Second, I could demand increased responsibility from the barren, but it isn't necessary.

Corey said:

Oh...a "should." I recall stating that same-sex couples are perfectly capable of raising equally well adjusted children as heterosexual couples and saying you can have the cites if desired. As you didn't ask, I presume you accept the above as an empirical fact. Ergo, this statement above borders on (if not crosses the line) being a lie.

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(1) You'll notice that the same sex couples child's situation is different. Second, I could demand increased responsibility from the barren, but it isn't necessary.

fated said:

(1) You'll notice that the couples child's situation is different. Second, I could demand increased responsibility from the barren, but it isn't necessary.

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In what way is it different?

Here I thought the EAC was a joke. It's surprising to hear anyone actually believes atheists are organized enough to be some kind of lobby, let alone a large enough number to make a bit of difference.

clarksided said:

It always amazes me that people have to make up reasons not to vote for Obama when there are perfectly legitimate ones floating around!

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Exactly!

IzzyPop said:

In what way is it different?

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Those in the couple involved a third party in the conception of a child. Why should the government consider it responsible action to father a child and abandon it?

fated said:

Those in the couple involved a third party in the conception of a child. Why should the government consider it responsible action to father a child and abandon it?

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So what about different sexed couples with an infertile male? They, too, would require a third party for the conception of a child. Can infertile males not get married?

IzzyPop said:

So what about different sexed couples with an infertile male? They, too, would require a third party for the conception of a child. Can infertile males not get married?

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Fertility is a private matter.

fated said:

Fertility is a private matter.

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But it is the crux of your argument. It cannot remain private if it is to be used to exclude people.

IzzyPop said:

But it is the crux of your argument. It cannot remain private if it is to be used to exclude people.

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Fertility is a private matter, one's sex is not. I am not looking to exclude people from marriage based on their unfortunate circumstance.

And, I don't believe that the government has any reason to subsidize fertility treatments that uses... genetic material... from outside of the marriage.


Now, if someone is caring for a child, they should have the same support as anyone else.

fated said:

Fertility is a private matter, one's sex is not. I am not looking to exclude people from marriage based on their unfortunate circumstance.

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Your logic is not consistent. If the reason that same sex couples are inherently unequal to different sex marriages is that the later can produce offspring, then the same restrictions can be placed on infertile couples that can be placed on same sex couples. To do otherwise belies the reason you are proscribing the rights of homosexuals.

fated said:

And, I don't believe that the government has any reason to subsidize fertility treatments that uses... genetic material... from outside of the marriage.

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I didn't know they did. Nor would I support it.

fated said:

Now, if someone is caring for a child, they should have the same support as anyone else.

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Unless they are gay.

clirus said:

TheNewWorldMan quote

The Neoconservative Lifestyle leads to war, death and destruction as proven by the permanent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Response

Korea was Truman's war.

Vietman was Kennedy's war.

Iraq is Clinton's war.

Yes it is Republicans that do the fighting, but it is the democratic policies that get America into wars. Reagan hung tough and won a war without firing a shot.

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I'm waiting for "clirus" to claim that the Democrats were directly responsible for placing the "serpent" in the Garden of Eden.

Wow, it appears that people do not read the articles they post...

The article says nothing about McCain saying he had to go to Iraq nor does it say anything about him not wanting to meet with Petraeus. Really, stop just pulling stuff out of thin air. Even reading the article it's obvious why he hasn't been in Iraq, the presidential primary has been very intense.

But I thought the funniest quote came from McCain: Mr. Obama declined an invitation from Senator John McCain to take a joint trip to Iraq, saying, "I just don’t want to be involved in a political stunt."

I mean it's not like Obama is going to Iraq with a hundreds of soldiers surrounding him and two helicopters while he shops, and of course after that Obama proclaims Iraq to be safe...