Eucharist required for salvation?

Malchisedec never offered bread and wine as a sacrifice

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The priest Mel-chiz'edek did indeed offer bread and wine as a sacrifice (Genesis 14:18). This type of offering, called a "toda," is what Mel-chiz'edek offered, and is what Christ, who was "designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchiz'edek" (Hebrews 5:10) offers today. The Lord said through the Prophet Malachi, "My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty."

We know three very important things now.

1) Mel-chiz'edek offered bread and wine as a sacrifice to God the Father.
2) Christ is the eternal High Priest in the order of Mel-chiz'edek.
3) The Lord said that a pure sacrifice would be offered to Him forever.

Paul says in Romans 15:16 that he has been graced "to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit." The priesthood that Paul belonged to was the priesthood of Mel-chiz'edek, of which Christ is the High Priest. It is through the bread and wine that Christ declared to be His Body and Blood that we offer our sacrifices, our very selves, to God the Father. We are joined with Christ into His Body, and through this mystical union we "escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). It is this divine nature, this eternal life that is the Most Holy Trinity that we partake in when we commune with Christ in the Eucharist. We have been given the gift of participating in God's very own "toda" to Himself, Calvary, when we receive the Eucharist.

All praise be to God the Father, and to His Son, Jesus Christ!

Neal

Originally posted by cleon
It seems very strange to me that we do not find even one example of a Catholic Mass being conducted or even described!

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Are you reading from a script or something? People have said several times in the thread that the Catholic church does not hold the Bible as the sole revealer of inspired truth.

Where do you find a Protestant service in the Bible? Like the Catholic mass, the Protestant services are made up of a number of parts which all have Biblical support, even though the whole is not found in the Bible.

-Chris

Originally posted by cleon
Kern, not quite so. The Bible says His sacrifice on the cross was sufficient to pay for all my sins. Catholicism rejects this notion saying that on the RC altar Christ is  immolated.

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This proves you didn't pay a whole heck of a lot of attention during your Catholic days. 

How very sad that you have hijacked this thread, cleon. I was hoping to get something out of it.

Originally posted by humblejoe
How very sad that you have hijacked this thread, cleon. I was hoping to get something out of it.

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Humblejoe, Peace be with you.

There is much good information in this thread!  Don't allow Cleon to get to you.  He doesn't appear to be interested in a true discussion, rather he posts a lot of quotes from the Bible which he believes supports his beliefs, though they do not tie together or really flow (in my opinion).   I don't want to label Cleon as a fundamentalist, but this is the type of thing you would expect to see from one.  The hope would be to confuse a Catholic who has not yet had the opportunity to discover the foundations for his/her faith and the support behind Catholic doctrines.

But something wonderful has come from his posts.  There have been some excellent posts in response to him which articulate the Catholic reasons behind the transubstantiation.  I certainly learned from them (which is not saying much!). 

For me personally, to respond to Cleon, I was forced to go back to the Bible and other media to research.  More importantly, I had to pray on it.  In that sense, it was a wonderful exercise and regardless of anything else, I feel it caused me to grow spiritually.

Go back through the thread ignoring the off-topic posts and focusing on the ones which are on the topic.  If you still doubt or don't understand after doing that, then post what it is that bothers or confuses you.  If there is something that Cleon posted which causes you concern, address it and someone will present to you another point of view which may help.

God Bless and Stay Safe

Cleon, you've received your second warning for trolling after being asked to refrain from debating in this forum and disrupting it. One more warning and you are gone. Plain and simple. Abide by our rules or don't post.

Are you reading from a script or something?

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No, kern, he's engaging in drive-by trollery. This is a common technique.

1. He throws out an accusation against Catholicism, reinforced by his statement that he "was a Catholic for X many years and has all the books", so he therefore supposedly knows what he's talking about.

2. He then proceeds to respond to all challenges by asking another question instead of answering the challenge, backed by reams of unassociated Scriptures which are quoted out of context both to themselves and each other, and thus cobbles up a sort of patchwork doctrine that (he thinks) proves his points.

3. After totally ignoring the questions that have been posed to him as well as the answers he has been provided with for his own questions, and still churning out accusation accompanied by random bits of Scripture, he disappears, begging some sort of outside situation which requires his immediate attention.

In other words, he checks in, fires his salvo, then sits back to watch the merry rumpus begin. He ignores requests to back up his accusation, and he ignores answers or explanations of his original charge. He posts loads of spam in the form of Bible verses, and innocently bats his eyelashes while asking "Why are you so angry? I love you!", and then when he gets bored, he vanishes, having contibuted absolutely nothing to the discussion except a violent disturbance of the waters and a distraction from the worthwhile conversation at hand.

He has left nothing except expended ammo, and has taken nothing away, having totally ignored what was offered to him, and he simply disappears.

Drive-by trolling.

I have seen this technique used by anti-Catholic trolls many, many, many times before. The purpose is not to learn or to teach, merely to anger and disrupt. And, who can say? He may actually believe what he's posting, one never knows.

But he'll be back, folks. Count on it.

Originally posted by Wolseley
No, kern, he's engaging in drive-by trollery. This is a common technique.

1. He throws out an accusation against Catholicism, reinforced by his statement that he "was a Catholic for X many years and has all the books", so he therefore supposedly knows what he's talking about.

2. He then proceeds to respond to all challenges by asking another question instead of answering the challenge, backed by reams of unassociated Scriptures which are quoted out of context both to themselves and each other, and thus cobbles up a sort of patchwork doctrine that (he thinks) proves his points.

3. After totally ignoring the questions that have been posed to him as well as the answers he has been provided with for his own questions, and still churning out accusation accompanied by random bits of Scripture, he disappears, begging some sort of outside situation which requires his immediate attention.

In other words, he checks in, fires his salvo, then sits back to watch the merry rumpus begin. He ignores requests to back up his accusation, and he ignores answers or explanations of his original charge. He posts loads of spam in the form of Bible verses, and innocently bats his eyelashes while asking "Why are you so angry? I love you!", and then when he gets bored, he vanishes, having contibuted absolutely nothing to the discussion except a violent disturbance of the waters and a distraction from the worthwhile conversation at hand.

He has left nothing except expended ammo, and has taken nothing away, having totally ignored what was offered to him, and he simply disappears.

Drive-by trolling.

I have seen this technique used by anti-Catholic trolls many, many, many times before. The purpose is not to learn or to teach, merely to anger and disrupt. And, who can say? He may actually believe what he's posting, one never knows.

But he'll be back, folks. Count on it.

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BRILLIANT!!!!!

Heres what I don't get about attacks on the eucharist:

If the Eucharist is not of God that makes it of the devil. We know that the devil cannot create he can only pervert what God has created. So here is the question: what is the Eucharist a perversion OF, and more importantly, if the Eucharist is already "satanic" why would the Black Mass exist??

AM I the only one to ever wonder about these things??

Pax et bonum

Originally posted by Br. Max
if the Eucharist is already "satanic" why would the Black Mass exist??

AM I the only one to ever wonder about these things??

Pax et bonum

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Bingo.  You hit that right on the head.  And no, you're not the only one who has ever wondered that.  The Black Mass is so vile.  I would hope it would disturb even the most ardent anti-catholic. 

I've never read about black mass. What is it?

There is no set Black Mass ritual, rather the ceremony is a parody on the holy Catholic Mass. One ritual is that it is performed in entirety, or in parts, backwards. The Mass may include inverting the cross, spitting and stepping on the cross, stabbing the host and other obscenities. Urine, supposedly, was at various times substituted for holy water, or for the wine. Sliced pieces of rotted turnips, black leather, or black triangles were substituted for communion bread. Black candles were used instead of white ones. A defrocked generally performed the Black Mass wearing vestments of black or a color of dried blood, and embroidered with inverted crosses, a goat's head (referring to Baphomet), or magical symbols.

The magical significance of the Black Mass rests in the belief that the Holy Mass involves the miracle of the transubstantiation, that is, the magical or mystical changing of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. If the priest can affect this miracle within the Holy Mass, then, it is reasoned, the priest, or magician, could effect similar magic in other masses for other, usually harmful, purposes. The Catholic Church condemned priests who attempted to subvert the Holy Mass for evil purposes, such as cursing a person to death, as early as the 7th century.

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I have heard of people stealing a host during communion, or breaking into the tabernacle to have it for a Black Mass. May the Lord be merciful on the Last Day.

God Bless,

Neal

Originally posted by humblejoe
I mean no disrespect, but that sounds as though every single Protestant on the planet is going to Hell.

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Since you must be a Catholic to partake of the Eucharist communion, then yes, it seems that all Protestants such as ourselves, are imminently doomed for hell.

Or is there a contradiction?

Since you must be a Catholic to partake of the Eucharist communion, then yes, it seems that all Protestants such as ourselves, are imminently doomed for hell.

Or is there a contradiction?

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Did you even bother to read any of the answers, or did you just feel like putting in your erroneous two cents?

Neal

Originally posted by isshinwhat
Protestants who don't take the Eucharist are not going to Hell, wholesale. You can rest easy, Joe!

Given that the true presence in the Eucharist is a teaching of Christ, to reject it would be a rejection of Christ. Note: there is a difference between a rejection of something and not believing in it! The followers of Christ who left after His discourse had not life in them because they rejected Christ's teachings from Christ's own mouth.

The Catholic teaches there is a difference between a non-Catholic who doesn't receive Communion, an ex-Catholic who left because he didn't take his faith seriously, but does now, although he is now Protestant, and an ex-Catholic who left for reasons of vanity, pride, or valid excommunication. The first two are followers of Christ, and Children of God who we hope will see Heaven, the same as any Communion receiving Catholic. The latter, however, has rejected Christ and chosen to follow himself. Do you see the difference?

God Bless,

Neal

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What if I became thoroughly convinced of the love and grace of the sovereign God, who is Personal, that we enter into a loving relationship with Him through the eyes of faith?

What if I left, because I was honestly convinced (from Biblical interpretation) that the Catholic church was teaching doctrinal error?

As long as Protestants partake in their respective church's Lord's Supper, then they are complying with Christ's command and thus would avoid hell. There would be no contradiction. While mosts Protestants don't share the Church's teaching on the Real Presence, they offer the Lord's Supper. Different views on it yes, but all should partake of it--whether you view it symbolically or physically. Christ commanded us to partake in it.

To add to the ultimate blasphemy of the Black Mass, I read where sexual acts are committed upon a consecrate Host on the altar.

Originally posted by Defender of the Faith 777
Since you must be a Catholic to partake of the Eucharist communion, then yes, it seems that all Protestants such as ourselves, are imminently doomed for hell.

Or is there a contradiction?

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Defender, since you didn't care to read the subsequent posts, I will now suggest you read them. I request that you do not troll, and that you please do not hijack this thread.

I cannot judge you. All I can do is teach you what the faith you left actually teaches, which in some cases is different than you believe it does. I would rather you have an honest, deep, lived, loving understanding of Christ, our relationship with Him, and our relationship to him in His Body, in a Protestant Congregation, than a dead, unloving, routine religious life as a Catholic. But I also want you to understand the faith you left.

God Bless,

Neal

Originally posted by jukesk9
As long as Protestants partake in their respective church's Lord's Supper, then they are complying with Christ's command and thus would avoid hell.

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The only problem with this jukes, is that protestants hardly ever offer communion. Most churches that I've attended only offer it biannually or quarterly. That makes it extremely difficult to receive. And for a person such as me who is considering Catholicism, I am very timid to take protestant communion.