Messianics are Scary!

Its not really, except they did it at the same time.

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>_>

simchat_torah said:

And without clearly defined limits, the Jewish members get posts deleted at random. No Jew here has tried to proselytize once... yet that is the reason we are given when our posts are nixed. It is truly left to the eye of each individual moderator.

*back to walking on pins and needles*

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To me the world is trying to subvert and proselytize us all. If Christians and Messianics can't handle the heat they should live in a closet. I'm more concerned with slander/flaming/ misrepresentation.

I do think the missionary card gets played way too much and part of it is the politics of who is considered Christian enough or truthful enough or whatever.

I've only seen one clearly missionizing poster here and truthfully there was plenty of offensive posts to oust them on so I don't think the mods back then needed a "antimissionary" clause even then.

It is real hard for me not to discuss frankly some questions that get asked about my beliefs, but it will always be pins and needles when dealing with some people.
bananna

Steve Petersen said:

Don't see much point in posting here. I quote rabbinic works quite a lot because they provide insight into the NT. Conclusions drawn from those comparisons may not be compatible with certain Christian interpretation. Does that mean it is disallowed?

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Has there been a book banning I'm not aware of?


bananna

Steve Petersen said:

I for one am ready to abandon this forum and move all my activity to one of the sub-forums. Who's with me?

(Grabs backpack and walking stick.)

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I'd be interested - I enjoy your posts.

Yafet,

Since prosyletizing is against our faith, I always find it funny when we are accused of same.

Yochanan

JosephtheKansan said:

Yafet,

Since prosyletizing is against our faith, I always find it funny when we are accused of same.

Yochanan

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There's two ways of looking at it, isn't there? The opposite could be true- eg. since prosyletizing is against your faith, how come some people still do it?

I have always maintained that Judaism prosyletizes. Not just in apologetics either. There's also a loophole called "Noachide". If, as a Jew, you convince someone of the truth of your religion, but point them to the Noachide movement, then you are "technically" not proselytizing them and making them Jewish. Yet, in truth, you are, if the doctrine is the same yet the practice is merely different. Same thing, different wrapper.

Steve Petersen said:

I for one am ready to abandon this forum and move all my activity to one of the sub-forums. Who's with me?

(Grabs backpack and walking stick.)

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Nah..I say you should post wherever you want.

ContraMundum said:

There's two ways of looking at it, isn't there? The opposite could be true- eg. since proselytizing is against your faith, how come some people still do it?

I have always maintained that Judaism proselytizes. Not just in apologetics either. There's also a loophole called "Noachide". If, as a Jew, you convince someone of the truth of your religion, but point them to the Noachide movement, then you are "technically" not proselytizing them and making them Jewish. Yet, in truth, you are, if the doctrine is the same yet the practice is merely different. Same thing, different wrapper.

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Actually, I think Judaism should become a proselytizing faith again... Whether that will happen or not is another story.

I think that's an interesting perspective Chazak. Care to talk about it over some tea and cookies?

CM: My understanding is that xtianity is acceptable to the Noachide standards (and generally supports the same regs--with a few added of course) so I have never tried to prosyletize xtians in the way you described. Note that this is my opinion however and does not reflect frum soceity as a whole.

Yochanan

JosephtheKansan said:

I think that's an interesting perspective Chazak. Care to talk about it over some tea and cookies?

CM: My understanding is that xtianity is acceptable to the Noachide standards (and generally supports the same regs--with a few added of course) so I have never tried to prosyletize xtians in the way you described. Note that this is my opinion however and does not reflect frum soceity as a whole.

Yochanan

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I think we too busy doing kiruv work with Jews to worry about
and spend time trying to "convert" Christians to being Noahide, LOL.

true dat. I just had to retoivel my mom's plates and silverware and rekasher her kitchen after a bacon cheeseburger incident. GRR.

Yochanan

I was thinking on this earlier... anyone who says there is not an anti-Rabbinic attitude in general here on this forum, is simply not paying attention in my opinion. When Steve posts passages of Talmud to examine and discuss, the general response tends to be quite negative from messianics, other than just a small few.

simchat_torah said:

Steve's by far one of my favorite posters. Tis a shame. *sigh*
But he hasn't posted much lately, and I miss that. Hopefully your activity will rise again on another subforum Steve! Lemme know where you go.

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JosephtheKansan said:

true dat. I just had to retoivel my mom's plates and silverware and rekasher her kitchen after a bacon cheeseburger incident. GRR.

Yochanan

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What does retoivel mean?

In order for dishes to be Kosher they have to be dipped in a Mikvah. This process is called "Toivel" in the yiddish. So I had to do it again, after completing the process this last monday.

Yochanan

Like a mikveh at a shul, or does that mean a basin of water in your house, what?

There's two ways of looking at it, isn't there? The opposite could be true- eg. since prosyletizing is against your faith, how come some people still do it?

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No Jew here has prosyletized in quite some time. There have only been two in my memory, and they came around some years ago back when I was a mod. Since then, I can't think of a single one. Moreover, none of the current Jewish posters have ever once prosyletized.

I have always maintained that Judaism prosyletizes. Not just in apologetics either. There's also a loophole called "Noachide". If, as a Jew, you convince someone of the truth of your religion, but point them to the Noachide movement, then you are "technically" not proselytizing them and making them Jewish. Yet, in truth, you are, if the doctrine is the same yet the practice is merely different. Same thing, different wrapper.

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Again, not one Jew here has ever told a Christian they MUST observe the Noachide covenant... not one. Stating one's beliefs is not the same as prosyletizing. Evangelism is proactive. Not one Jew here has ever told a single Christian on this forum they must follow the Noachide laws.

simchat_torah said:

Stating one's beliefs is not the same as prosyletizing.

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And I think this is at the heart of the current difficulties here. There was a time when we could state our beliefs as long as we made clear that we were coming from the Jewish perspective. So if someone came along and asked, as in another current thread, "Are there Orthodox Jews who reject Jesus"? We could answer factually that Orthodox Jews do not accept Jesus. And it wasn't a huge issue. It is simply fact. Stating it does not mean that we are anti-misisonaries. Stating does not mean that we are proselytizing. Its simply a plain fact. As well, if some asks, "Who is a Jew?", it is a fact to state that, "In traditional Judaism, a Jew is someone who was either born to a Jewish mother or underwent a halachic conversion." It just is what it is and there are no nefarious motives underlying such statements. That is what has changed here and makes basic communication difficult. Its quite a shame really.

JosephtheKansan said:

true dat. I just had to retoivel my mom's plates and silverware and rekasher her kitchen after a bacon cheeseburger incident. GRR.

Yochanan

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I hate toiveling....not the concept, mind you, but the actual
task....it is so much work.

Although I don't think that is going to help the plates if they
had nice hot bacon/cheese burger on them, LOL. Time to throw
'em out. Maybe that will help her be more care too, LOL.

Ivy said:

Like a mikveh at a shul, or does that mean a basin of water in your house, what?

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A mikveh will work, or you can use a free running body of water.
I use either our neighbors creek, or the river in town, depending on
how big the item is.

When you purchase new items for cooking, they need to be
toiveled. However, not all items need toiveling..
it depends on the material, whether it
was owned by a Jew or non-Jew,
and some things are toiveled but a berachah is not said over it.

Talmidah said:

That is what has changed here and makes basic communication difficult. Its quite a shame really.

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Yes, it is quite sad...