questions about Jesus

obscure101 · May 7, 2008

Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?

I am not here to argue. Only curious as I never really understood what Christians are about or why there are so many denominations. Is there an underlying commonality between all the different churches?

p.s. I once believed in Jesus, but I left the faith because the Christians I knew, had only a desire for triumph. At the moment, I would say I am a very beginning Buddhist.

Zunalter · May 8, 2008

Basically being a Christian boils down to this:

There is a God who created everything, and made it all good. He also has a moral law, the 10 commandments, which are written on the hearts of all men. Then, sin (rebellion against God, breaking of God's Law) entered the world through Adam, the first man. Because of that sin, we are all born with a natural bent toward sin. We have ALL sinned (i.e. lied, stolen, dishonored God, dishonored our parents, etc.). Unfortunately that means we are all lawbreakers.

Now, God is perfectly just. For us, that means we have a problem, because as we established earlier, we are all lawbreakers. God's justice demands that lawbreakers be punished, meaning Hell. Therefore, since all are guilty of breaking the law, we should all be rightly condemned to Hell as our just punishment.

God is also rich in mercy and love, and does not desire for us to end up in Hell. However, He cannot just override His justice, or else He would be unjust, which is impossible for Him. So, He made a plan that would satisfy both His Mercy and Justice at the same time:

Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God, came to this planet 2000 years ago. God created for Himself a body and filled it like a hand fills a glove. He then died on the cross, taking the full punishment for the sins that you and I have committed. God poured all of His wrath out upon His own Son, making the payment for our debt. Therefore, He promises that for all of those who will

1. Admit they are sinners.
2. Turn away from their sins (repent) and...
3. Rely completely on Jesus' work on the cross (faith) will be forgiven by God, given a new heart and a new nature.

Friend, I do not know your background or what kind of "Christians" you knew earlier in life, but I BEG you to consider what I have told you. Think of your sins, every time you have lied or stolen or anything, and then think of Jesus and His saving work on the cross. Nothing is more important than where you are going when you die, I beg you to please think about that you have read here. Thanks for taking the time to do this, let me know if you have anymore questions.

-Z

obscure101 · May 8, 2008

Thank you for the response.

I am not quite sure exactly what you are saying, it sounds as though Jesus is possibly your potential but only after full admittance of your inherent sinfulness. Is the opportunity to be One with the Creator (as you believe Jesus Is) an experience to be waited for, upon death?

About the commonality of the Churches, is it your feeling that virtually all would agree?

I realize I am not perfect so no-one has to read any ulterior motives in my words.

Sporos · May 8, 2008

Hey Obscure, I'll go ahead and give you my opinion on the matter.

I've only been a Christian for two and a half years, and while I don't know everything, I've been completely inundated with Bible and Theology at the Bible College I attend. My own beliefs on the matter are this.

It is my goal to become like Jesus. The race that I run is one of perfection - of reaching that point where I'm not just emulating him, but Living that lifestyle out. Now, there's a problem in this, as there is one big difference between myself and Jesus Christ - That of my sin. Last I checked, I wasn't made perfect when I became a Christian - I still sin, things are still hard, and life isn't easy, but that difference is the one thing keeping me from reaching that.

Now then, since we've established that we can't reach that Perfection in this life, I view it as a chance to refine while still here on earth. A.W. Tozer said that the paradox of Love is this - To have Found God, yet still Pursue him. Now, that can be applied in what we're talking about. Perfection - I've found it in God, but I still pursue it, because I still haven't reached it. That perfection will come when I pass from this life to the next. This might not make a lot of sense, and I apologize if it doesn't. Let me know anything you want me to clarify.

RevCowboy · May 8, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?

I am not here to argue. Only curious as I never really understood what Christians are about or why there are so many denominations. Is there an underlying commonality between all the different churches?

p.s. I once believed in Jesus, but I left the faith because the Christians I knew, had only a desire for triumph. At the moment, I would say I am a very beginning Buddhist.

Hi Obscure, welcome to CF.

As far as Jesus being our potential or goal you are actually on to something in a way, however, not in the way Buddhists would understand achieving enlightenment.

The issue here is called incarnational theology. Meaning the theology of God becoming incarnate in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Christians believe that Jesus was fully God and fully human. Yes, the math doesn't add up, but there is no real other way of explaining that doesn't end up being a heresy, meaning a image or example that stops saying that Jesus was fully God and fully human.

The incarnation, or Jesus the human being is an example for us. It is the example in of living a life of what it means to truly and authentically human. The reality is, we don't live our lives in that way. We call this original sin, which expresses the fact that we are imperfect. We estrange and alienate ourselves from our loved ones. We cannot and understand others or make ourselves understand. There is simply something that is "off" about the way we are. We try to more than human being putting down those around us, by trying to be like God by being in control. And when that doesn't work, we try to less than human by shirking out responsibilities to those around us. Jesus gives us an example of what it means to be neither less or more than human, but authentically human.

Therefore, indeed in a way Jesus is our goal and example. However, Christians also realize that it is impossible to do this on our own. Thus we are given grace and love. God forgives for not being what we were created to be. And this done again through the incarnation, through Christ. Jesus purpose of living was not simply to be an example and goal, this was only secondary. Rather, it was to show us God's love. To show that God loves and values us so much that God was willing to be born, to live and to be killed by humanity. God was willing to suffer a life with people who suffering from all those problems of original sin that I mentioned above. But our response to God living life with us was not good. If there is a God, it means that we are not God, thus how would humanity return to living the delusion that we are God? Especially when God has come to be with us , face to face. Well the solution was to put God to death on a cross. To give a final and resounding NO to God with the most powerful tool at our disposal- death. However, God's response was powerful and resound YES, with a tool more powerful than death- Life. In the resurrection God's response to us was Life and the promise of new life.

Many Christians try to say that God is about judgement, and about punishment. They say that God is only about separating sheep from goats. However, this untrue. God is about Life and giving Life to creation. This is what grace truly is.

And yes, when you come down it most denominations would agree with what I have said, above, however, many Christians would not.

Gianna · May 8, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

Sure. Even many non-Christians admire Him and His life.

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?

I suppose some people are waiting for this, and expect that God will 'smite' those whom they personally dislike or disagree. I am not one of those people. In the Orthodox world, we are taught that we do not know who goes to Heaven/who goes to Hell. We are taught to mind our own business, tend to our own salvation and with the time remaining, we must hope and pray for the salvation of ALL people no matter what religion they are. Salvation is not about being a member of the "right" group. It is about NOT rejecting Truth, Mercy and Love, all of which we believe is embodied/personified in the Trinity.

I am not here to argue. Only curious as I never really understood what Christians are about or why there are so many denominations. Is there an underlying commonality between all the different churches?

Christianity began at Pentecost in 33AD when the historical churches were formed. These are the Orthodox and the Catholic churches. Throughout history there have been unfortunate decisions made by many deeply flawed human beings that have led to all the different movements we see now in the modern world.....that's the short version in a nutshell. A complete understanding of how these divisions came to happen/exist is a very long subject that requires a very long study and I'm not sure you want all that information. If you do, it's easy to begin with the following books:
The Orthodox Church by Timothy Ware (now known as Bishop Kallistos Ware and covers the Orthodox point of view.)
and
Church History by Fr. John Laux (covers the Western/Roman Catholic point of view.)

After reading these, you would want to investigate the western protestant reformation period of Martin Luther, and John Calvin. This was the beginning of the Protestant world, beginning in/about 1521 AD.
A good book on that is:
The Reformation of the Sixteenth Century by Roland H. Bainton and Jaroslav Pelikan.

p.s. I once believed in Jesus, but I left the faith because the Christians I knew, had only a desire for triumph. At the moment, I would say I am a very beginning Buddhist.

Please be at peace. "Triumph" is not a quality of being (and it's not necessarily a good thing as it leads to pride, generally considered a selfish trait) and "knowledge" is not a measure of spirituality or religious-ness. Strive to become the person God created you to be and learn to see him in all things. And while you are being at peace, strive for ultimate truth in all things.

God bless you and godspeed.

Zunalter · May 8, 2008

obscure101 said:
Thank you for the response.

I am not quite sure exactly what you are saying, it sounds as though Jesus is possibly your potential but only after full admittance of your inherent sinfulness. Is the opportunity to be One with the Creator (as you believe Jesus Is) an experience to be waited for, upon death?

Jesus is our example, but not our potential. As another poster has pointed out, we are sinners, and Jesus was not, therefore meeting His example is impossible. Also, His purpose was to die for my sins, something I cannot do for myself or for anyone else.

obscure101 said:
About the commonality of the Churches, is it your feeling that virtually all would agree?

The thing Christians feel about certain denominations is this:

There are things about Christianity that make up it's core, things that in order to be a Christian, you have to believe. This would be things like (not an enhaustive list):

Salvation by grace through faith, not of good deeds.
Salvation by the atonement of Christ, not of any other path.
Holy Bible as being completely true and the words of God to humanity.
God being 3 co-equal, co-eternal personages, but 1 entity.

However, there are other issues that people have disagreements on:

Reformed theology or not?
Charismatic gifts or not?
Dancing, or not?
Infant Baptism, or not?

None of these things make someone a Christian or not, but people who have the same opinions on these things like to be together in a church, and that is alright. I would consider anyone who believed either way on those issues as a brother or sister in Christ, we just have a difference in opinion on the "non-essentials". So, to answer your question, if someone was a real Christian they WOULD agree with me.

-Z

tapero · May 9, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?

I am not here to argue. Only curious as I never really understood what Christians are about or why there are so many denominations. Is there an underlying commonality between all the different churches?

p.s. I once believed in Jesus, but I left the faith because the Christians I knew, had only a desire for triumph. At the moment, I would say I am a very beginning Buddhist.

Hi, yes we are to become more like Jesus. We don't become Jesus, we become more like Him as He showed/shows us the way. We fail, but we go forward.

I'm sorry to hear you appeared to follow other Christians rather than Christ as is what you wrote above.

Many leave Jesus for the same thing. They followed men, and when men let them down, which bible says clearly will do, which we all know will do, as we all sin, then they leave God for what He had no part of.

Christians are all in different places in their understandings. Different experiences; and different things within.

Bible says let God be true and every man a liar, shows we will all fail but God never fails.

blessings,
tapero

obscure101 · May 9, 2008

Thank you for the responses. Yes, God Bless.

ebia · May 9, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?

That's not historic Christian escatology but gnosticism. Historic Christian escatology is that Jesus came to redeem the whole of creation, that redemption happened in principle on the cross and in the resurrection of Jesus and will be fully implemented at the final resurrection, and in the meantime we are called to anticipate that future redeemed, restored and healed creation in the present.

JoshuaM · May 13, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

it is a goal of mine, yes, except i want to marry. Other parts of his character I am striving to be like.

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?

Christians are waiting for Jesus to return, but not in order to take us away from other people, but rather to be with the Lord.

I am not here to argue. Only curious as I never really understood what Christians are about or why there are so many denominations. Is there an underlying commonality between all the different churches?

That all depends, as what is called "unorthodox theology" has nothing really in common with Christianity.

You will find true Christianity in churches where the Bible is fully believed, fully accepted, and one does not believe a new doctrine must be added. Where the Bible is believed to be the only truly God-inspired, God-breathed Word of God. In these churches you will find that the Christians believe Jesus to be the only way to God, and that Christians must live by faith for the Lord, and not for self.

p.s. I once believed in Jesus, but I left the faith because the Christians I knew, had only a desire for triumph. At the moment, I would say I am a very beginning Buddhist.

Could you explain this about triumph? If you really want Jesus and believe a Christian should set a good example, then the only way to do this is follow Him and do as the Word says striving to worship the Lord in spirit and in truth, which means wholeheartedly in thoughts and actions.. Jesus does not reject those who truly humbly go to Him.

Faith In God · May 16, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

Pretty much, yeah.
2 Cor 3:18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?

I hope not. That's pretty lazy.

On a serious note, the above passage says we are "being transformed into the same image." Right now. And that takes work.

I am not here to argue. Only curious as I never really understood what Christians are about or why there are so many denominations. Is there an underlying commonality between all the different churches?

There are so many denominations...I don't know. But it shouldn't be that way.
The truth is the truth.

p.s. I once believed in Jesus, but I left the faith because the Christians I knew, had only a desire for triumph. At the moment, I would say I am a very beginning Buddhist.

A pastor once used this illustration:
[a backslider tells the pastor the reason he left Christianity was because of the hypocrisy in his last church]
"Christians follow Christ, not other Christians. If a hypocrite comes between you and God, who is closer to God?"

Just because other people cannot follow the truth, does not make the truth any less true.

:prayer:

xino · May 17, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?

I am not here to argue. Only curious as I never really understood what Christians are about or why there are so many denominations. Is there an underlying commonality between all the different churches?

p.s. I once believed in Jesus, but I left the faith because the Christians I knew, had only a desire for triumph. At the moment, I would say I am a very beginning Buddhist.

nop!

I only believe in Jesus because I need to go to Heaven, I am tried of this Earth and hate it!

Jehovah's Witness are the one who believe in him so they can "govern in heaven", however they believe in GoD...they rarely mention Jesus

Merlin · May 18, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?.

It is generally the goal of Christians to be more like Jesus.

calidog · May 22, 2008

obscure101 said:
Is Jesus your potential? Meaning is it your goal to become like Him?

I would like to be like Him, that is I would like to be able to say "I do always those things that please the father".
The christian is assured that we are being conformed into Christs image. It is not us who does this, it is He Who does this in us.

salida · May 22, 2008

Well, what do you mean that the christians you knew only wanted to triumph? I'm a christian spiritually first and intellectually second because of the overwhelming evidence there is of the Bible compared to all books that exist in this world. As a start Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster(a former athiest). Also, www.reasons.org - concerning science and belief. The Bible could only be written by God as one of its characteristics include having hundreds of detailed prophesies that has been fulfilled and more to come.

Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

***Yes, Christ's Second Coming will be happening soon. If you interested in biblical prophesy, I will email you concerning this website.

fiasps · May 26, 2008

obscure101 said:
Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?quote]

I disagree with your view that Jesus (pbuh) will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them

Please take the time to read Matthew 7:22

Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 - Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you evildoers!'"

Jeses will be coming again but not to take the Christians away from the non-believers but to testify against the Christians. The Christians will say to Jesus didnt we do so many things for you? We looked after lepers, we brought these backward nations to your religion, baptised them in your name, we built orphanages for them, hospitals for them, we educated them, took out devils from them in your name, didnt we do all these things in your (jesus) name?

He Jesus will say to them get away from me you rubbish I dont even know you! And thats why hes coming to tell them (Chrisitans) they are off the track. Hes not going to say to the Jews get away you rubbish nor to the Muslims get away you rubbish nor to the Hindus get away you rubbish because they do not do things in the name of Jesus hes going to say it to the Christians get away from me you who say Jesus is God get away from me I dont even know you because you are off the track instead of worshipping the one true god in heaven alone with no partners you worshipped me and I didnt ask you to do that.

The mistake made by Christians is that they made the man Jesus into God. Jesus was a man but a man chosen by God to be his prophet just like Adam, Moses, Abraham, Solomon and all those before him were prophets. There is no single clear unequivocal statement in the bible where Jesus says I am God, Worship me.

The Jews went astray from Gods message so God sent Jesus to put their house in order. Similarly the Christians went astray from Gods message by making Jesus into God so God sent Muhammad (pbuh) as the final seal of prophets to correct those gone astray. Have you ever read the Quran? Islam is the only religion (aside from Christianity) that glorifies Jesus! We believe he is one of the mightiest messengers of God, We believe in his miraculous birth which many modern day Christians dont believe, we believe that he gave life to the dead by Gods permission, and he healed those blind and lepers by Gods permission. (notice the difference Christians say he did these miracles because he was God Muslims say he was a man, a prophet and did these miracles by Gods permission)

Remember when the angles said: O Mary! Verily, Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, his name will be Messiah Isa (Jesus), the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and in the hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah, He will speak to people, in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous. She (Mary) said: O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me He said: So it will be for Allah creates what he wills. When He says to it only: Be! and it is. And He (Allah) will teach him (Jesus) the Book and faultless speech of the prophets wisdom. And will make him (Jesus) a messenger to the Children of Israel saying I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, a figure like that of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allahs permission; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah permission. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. And I have come conforming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me. Truly, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him alone. This is a straight path. Quran 3: 45-51

And because of their sayings We killed Jesus son of Mary, the messenger of Allah but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely, they killed him (Jesus) not. But Allah raised him (Jesus) up to himself and Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All Wise. Quran 4: 157-158

JoshuaM · May 26, 2008

fiasps said:
obscure101 said:

Or are Christians waiting for the "final days"? When their Messiah will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them?quote]

I disagree with your view that Jesus (pbuh) will come and take them home, away from all those who do not believe like them

Please take the time to read Matthew 7:22

Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 - Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you evildoers!'"

Jeses will be coming again but not to take the Christians away from the non-believers but to testify against the Christians. The Christians will say to Jesus didn’t we do so many things for you? We looked after lepers, we brought these backward nations to your religion, baptised them in your name, we built orphanages for them, hospitals for them, we educated them, took out devils from them in your name, didn’t we do all these things in your (jesus&#8217 name?

He Jesus will say to them get away from me you rubbish I don’t even know you! And that’s why he’s coming to tell them (Chrisitans) they are off the track. He’s not going to say to the Jews get away you rubbish nor to the Muslims get away you rubbish nor to the Hindus get away you rubbish because they do not do things in the name of Jesus – he’s going to say it to the Christians get away from me – you who say Jesus is God… get away from me I don’t even know you because you are off the track instead of worshipping the one true god in heaven alone with no partners you worshipped me and I didn’t ask you to do that.

The mistake made by Christians is that they made the man Jesus into God. Jesus was a man but a man chosen by God to be his prophet just like Adam, Moses, Abraham, Solomon and all those before him were prophets. There is no single clear unequivocal statement in the bible where Jesus says I am God, Worship me.

The Jews went astray from Gods message so God sent Jesus to put their house in order. Similarly the Christians went astray from Gods message by making Jesus into God so God sent Muhammad (pbuh) as the final seal of prophets to correct those gone astray. Have you ever read the Quran? Islam is the only religion (aside from Christianity) that glorifies Jesus! We believe he is one of the mightiest messengers of God, We believe in his miraculous birth which many modern day Christians don’t believe, we believe that he gave life to the dead by Gods permission, and he healed those blind and lepers by Gods permission. (notice the difference Christians say he did these miracles because he was God Muslims say he was a man, a prophet and did these miracles by Gods permission)

Remember when the angles said: “O Mary! Verily, Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, his name will be Messiah Isa (Jesus), the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and in the hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah,” “He will speak to people, in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous. She (Mary) said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me” He said: “So it will be for Allah creates what he wills. When He says to it only: Be!” – and it is. And He (Allah) will teach him (Jesus) the Book and faultless speech of the prophets wisdom. And will make him (Jesus) a messenger to the Children of Israel saying “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, a figure like that of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s permission; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah permission. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. “And I have come conforming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me. “Truly, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him alone. This is a straight path.” Quran 3: 45-51

And because of their sayings “We killed Jesus son of Mary, the messenger of Allah” – but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely, they killed him (Jesus) not. But Allah raised him (Jesus) up to himself and Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All Wise. Quran 4: 157-158

Click to expand...

It is a contradiction to use the Bible to support the Quran. Islam does not support the Bible. Jesus will turn away all who did not follow His teachings, not just phony Christians. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life, and no man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

Therefore, Buddha, Mohammed, etc cannot lead you to God. Jesus makes it clear that only through Him we have assurance of salvation, yet Mohammed makes no such claim, but in fact teaches that his followers should to do good deeds, and there is maybe a possibility of entering heaven if the deeds are good enough.
Jesus is more than a prophet, He was the only begotten son of God (John 3:16) born of a virgin, and raised from the dead on the third day.

I don't know about you, but I would rather follow a leader that gives assured salvation, than somebody that says if you follow him, maybe or maybe not everything will be okay..

JEBofChristTheLord · May 26, 2008

As for me, indeed, I await with joy the opportunity to be One with my Creator. (Gospel of John, chapter 17, verses 20 through 23.) I know for sure that many churches do not agree -- but this is inherent in the situation at present. All know of Him, but only in part.

J.E.B.

obscure101 said:
Thank you for the response.
I am not quite sure exactly what you are saying, it sounds as though Jesus is possibly your potential but only after full admittance of your inherent sinfulness. Is the opportunity to be One with the Creator (as you believe Jesus Is) an experience to be waited for, upon death?

About the commonality of the Churches, is it your feeling that virtually all would agree?

I realize I am not perfect so no-one has to read any ulterior motives in my words.

fiasps · May 26, 2008

JoshuaM said:
fiasps said:

It is a contradiction to use the Bible to support the Quran. Islam does not support the Bible. Jesus will turn away all who did not follow His teachings, not just phony Christians. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life, and no man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

Therefore, Buddha, Mohammed, etc cannot lead you to God. Jesus makes it clear that only through Him we have assurance of salvation, yet Mohammed makes no such claim, but in fact teaches that his followers should to do good deeds, and there is maybe a possibility of entering heaven if the deeds are good enough.
Jesus is more than a prophet, He was the only begotten son of God (John 3:16) born of a virgin, and raised from the dead on the third day.

I don't know about you, but I would rather follow a leader that gives assured salvation, than somebody that says if you follow him, maybe or maybe not everything will be okay..

Click to expand...

"I am the Way, the Truth, the Life, and no man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

You have quoted John 14:6 out of context. You should always check the context of the verses. For the context of John 14:6 go to John 14:1 onwards where Jesus says In my Fathers house a various mansions, many mansions are there. If it were no so I would not have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And you know where I am going, and you know the way. Thomas asked him Lord we dont know where you are going, so how can we know the way? So Jesus says I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father but by me.

I agree with that statement Jesus was the way the truth and the life no one came to god but by him. But during his time. Every messenger in his time was the way the truth and the light. At the time of Moses, he Moses, was the way the truth and the life. At the time of Abraham, he Abraham, was the way the truth and the life and so on with all the messengers in their time.

The context is if you are following me you are following God. If you continue reading John it says but we have not seen God so Jesus says he that has seen me has seen God. Meaning if you follow my commandment you are following the commandments of God. John 14: 1 gives the context - Jesus doesnt say in MY house are many mansions he says in My fathers house are many mansions. He is not talking about himself he is talking about god. If you follow the example of Jesus you are following god. Thomas had misunderstood and was thinking of a geographical location (way) but the way was not geographical the way was following the example of Jesus. And jesus' example was not to worship him as God and in his second coming he will deny those who worship him - Matthew 7:22

Please prove that Mohammed doesnt make this claim? He is the way the truth and the life. Since he supersedes all previous messengers he is now the only way, truth, life.

What does begotten mean?

If Jesus is god then does that mean Adam is a greater God? since he had no father and no mother and was not in a womans womb for nine months and then born of child birth

Did Jesus rise from the dead on the third day? Read the bible Jesus did not fulfil the sign of Jonah. Check Mathhew 12: 30-40. The son of man was not 3 days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Friday night, Saturday morning, Saturday night. So jesus was two nights and one day in the heart of the earth not three days and three nights. This proves that jesus was not crucified since Jonah was Alive in the belly of the whale and jesus said like jonah was three days and three nights so shall I.

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