Why make up your own religion???

GeratTzedek · May 8, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
There may be a universal truth, but different ways to recognize it and put it into practice. There may be one destination, but many routes that lead there. This seems to be the philosophy of the eclectic pagans, rather than a denial of universal truth.

In my experience, this varies from pagan to pagan. Some have a strong sense that there is something "more real" out there than what we see, and they search for ways to be true to that, knowing that what works for one may not work for another. Other pagans quite frankly don't believe anything is absolute, but that everything is relative. They basically hook onto whatever toots their horn. It goes without saying that "Pagan" is a very broad category - it is almost impossilbe to generalize.

Gee I had fun doing my new avatar!

GeratTzedek · May 8, 2008

I'm simply not going to engage in this any longer with you. I was tuaght that if I quoted from one thread to begin another, it is only common decency to drawn the attention of the person beign quoted to this fact. My title quite clearly stated that the post was not addressed ONLY to you. You can't see that, or don't want to see it, I have no clue which, but further discussion is pointless.

Gardenia · May 8, 2008

GerTzedek said:
I actually did go through a time after my divorce when I went through a "pick and choose" phase. But I was not happy there. I experienced the whole relativism thing as incredibly depressing -- I kinew in the back of my mind that something didn't have meaning simply because I chose to give it meaning.

I don't know about the others, but I didn't just grab onto anything and force a meaning onto it. The things that stuck with me are the things I saw and felt they had meaning on their own.

To put it bluntly, the way you have chosen to do things is not the only way to go about it. You have your reasons for doing what you do, and we have ours - as we've pointed out. None of us has any more proof that we're doing it "right", we're all going about it as our spirits tell us we should. People are all different, not everyone is going to go about things the way you have. I'm just not sure why, after all that has been said, you can't understand why someone would feel differently than you do about religion.

Something old is not necessarily better, look at the first airplane compared to what we have now. I know which I'd rather fly on. Things change, time moves on, new ideas come up, people change. Does God change? I don't know. I do know that people change, and their ideas on how to relate to God obviously change through the times. Is one way better than the other? I don't think so. You may think so, but again, not everyone thinks as you do. That's why some of us choose to believe the way we do, and others in other ways.

Caitlin.ann · May 8, 2008

GerTzedek said:
I'm simply not going to engage in this any longer with you. I was tuaght that if I quoted from one thread to begin another, it is only common decency to drawn the attention of the person beign quoted to this fact. My title quite clearly stated that the post was not addressed ONLY to you. You can't see that, or don't want to see it, I have no clue which, but further discussion is pointless.

Good riddance.

Crazy Liz · May 8, 2008

GerTzedek said:
I'm simply not going to engage in this any longer with you. I was tuaght that if I quoted from one thread to begin another, it is only common decency to drawn the attention of the person beign quoted to this fact. My title quite clearly stated that the post was not addressed ONLY to you. You can't see that, or don't want to see it, I have no clue which, but further discussion is pointless.

I think tulc's suggestion of sending a PM rather than calling the person out in the thread title would accomplish this in a more friendly way. Obviously, about half the people posting here (or more) misinterpreted your intent. If you could change the thread title to remove the reference to SacredSin and just send her a PM to let her know you quoted her in a new thread, I think that misunderstanding would have been avoided.

GeratTzedek · May 8, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
I think tulc's suggestion of sending a PM rather than calling the person out in the thread title would accomplish this in a more friendly way. Obviously, about half the people posting here (or more) misinterpreted your intent. If you could change the thread title to remove the reference to SacredSin and just send her a PM to let her know you quoted her in a new thread, I think that misunderstanding would have been avoided.

Already tried. The thread's title is the one thing I cannot change. If a mod is listening, they are certainly welcome to alter the title.

LibertyChic · May 8, 2008

MOD HAT ON

That's enough on the whole "calling out" versus "not calling out" business. It's been discussed by both sides and that's that. Any further comments regarding this will be considered off topic and deleted.

This thread is getting dangerously close to baiting and flaming. Let's avoid that, please, and stay on topic, as the discussion at hand is a good one.

Thank you,

Libby
Team Joy

MOD HAT OFF

LibertyChic · May 8, 2008

GerTzedek said:
Already tried. The thread's title is the one thing I cannot change. If a mod is listening, they are certainly welcome to alter the title.

I will do so for you right now.

Let this be the last post regarding this and let's get back on topic.

-Libby

Ramona · May 8, 2008

I've officially had enough of this crap.

Unsubscribing.

GeratTzedek · May 8, 2008

Thanks, Liberty Chic!

Danhalen · May 8, 2008

If religious truths are ultimately revelatory in nature, why is it immature to create your own religion based on your own revelations?

dlamberth · May 9, 2008

I see 2 different issues being brought up in the OP. The first is the outer way we worship. The rituals, the community, the way we believe are all part of the outer way we worship which becomes the "religion".

Than, as I see it, there is our inner spiritual life.... The divine we see when we look upon God, the compassion we feel towards others, the humbleness we become. This is the stuff thats important to me.

The religion I started out with is Christianity. As I look back, as I grew spiritually, I found that I began to develop my own spiritual relationship God which developed into a different understanding of God than what I had learned in Church and in Bible class. As I begin to explore the experience of God with in other spiritual paths I realized that God is way too large to fit into any single religion. After a time (many years actually) I can now see that I did develop my own religion of sorts because my inner life had become so full of so much more of the experiences of God than what I had been taught in my youth these spiritual experiences began to move into an outer expression that does not fit into any single religion.

Today, I have no problem at all in bringing together Christianity, Paganism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and American Indian spirituality. I have thanked my Beloved God many times over for this blessing in Unity and Oneness and Wholeness that He has given me.

.

GeratTzedek · May 9, 2008

dlamberth said:
I see 2 different issues being brought up in the OP. The first is the outer way we worship. The rituals, the community, the way we believe are all part of the outer way we worship which becomes the "religion".

Than, as I see it, there is our inner spiritual life.... The divine we see when we look upon God, the compassion we feel towards others, the humbleness we become. This is the stuff thats important to me.

The religion I started out with is Christianity. As I look back, as I grew spiritually, I found that I began to develop my own spiritual relationship God which developed into a different understanding of God than what I had learned in Church and in Bible class. As I begin to explore the experience of God with in other spiritual paths I realized that God is way too large to fit into any single religion. After a time (many years actually) I can now see that I did develop my own religion of sorts because my inner life had become so full of so much more of the experiences of God than what I had been taught in my youth these spiritual experiences began to move into an outer expression that does not fit into any single religion.

Today, I have no problem at all in bringing together Christianity, Paganism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and American Indian spirituality. I have thanked my Beloved God many times over for this blessing in Unity and Oneness and Wholeness that He has given me.

.

Wow, I SO love your avatar -- yellow roses are my fav.

I think perhaps one very big difference in experience is this: During my years of being ecclectic 1. I was very unhappy and 2. I made some terrible mistakes that caused me a great deal of suffering, and it rather taught me to be a little more humble about my abilities to sort through things on my own. I certainly would not have written this OP a dozen years ago. It is definitely a product of what I've been through.

Danhalen · May 9, 2008

GerTzedek said:
I think perhaps one very big difference in experience is this: During my years of being ecclectic 1. I was very unhappy and 2. I made some terrible mistakes that caused me a great deal of suffering, and it rather taught me to be a little more humble about my abilities to sort through things on my own. I certainly would not have written this OP a dozen years ago. It is definitely a product of what I've been through.

How does your experience translate into 1) another person's happiness, and 2) the maturity, or lack thereof, of another person? Perhaps you are the one that needed to be more humble. I fail to see how your humility necessitates that other people ought to also take your perception of what it is to be humble. Your experience is exactly that, yours. Your inability to approach your understanding of what you believed to be true in the proper way does not equal another person's inability.

morningstar2651 · May 9, 2008

GerTzedek said:
It is inferred by its nature. To start one's own religion is to believe that one's self has superior wisdom than the collective wisdom of many which has been tried out and refined over time.

I am reminded of The Lottery. Not all traditions are good ideas.

sidhe · May 9, 2008

morningstar2651 said:
I am reminded of The Lottery. Not all traditions are good ideas.

I love that story. Clearly, just because something has always been done a certain way, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Which (if you'd agree with me on this, morningstar) is the appeal of Crowley - he said that the way things have always been done doesn't work, and suggested a new paradigm.

Or at least that's how I'm leaning at 6am. I could be wrong. I could be really really tired.

Eudaimonist · May 9, 2008

sidhe said:
Which (if you'd agree with me on this, morningstar) is the appeal of Crowley - he said that the way things have always been done doesn't work, and suggested a new paradigm.

It has been said that one shouldn't reinvent the wheel, but when one needs to get to the Moon, rocketships -- even new and imperfect ones -- seem to have an edge over wheeled vehicles.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Druweid · May 9, 2008

Greetings!

Hmmm, so much to say, so much for which to reply. Where ever shall I start?

GerTzedek said:
I decided to follow it. But I didn't pull it out of a hat. It is not a religion I made up. I don't claim to be Moses, much less G-d.

I never claimed to be the Great Divine, nor even Moses. Perhaps more akin to Daniel, I'll have to contemplate further on that.

GerTzedek said:
Here is where my OP question comes in: when I look to what I choose to believe, I'm going to look for something tried and true. Why? Because truth doesn't change, G-d doesn't change.

Y'know, the insinuation here is that Orthodox Judaism is truth, and everything else is fluff. You did this before when you said "But to assume that one is so wise that one can understand better than the distilled wisdom of the ages, and so cast aside all that wisdom and offer something new from scratch..." (post #12). You call it "wisdom of the ages," but you are really refering to the supporting text of your own religion. Here is where it appears you are implying you are right, and I am wrong.

GerTzedek said:
Basically, whatever I choose would have to be picked from among those religions which are very old, unchanging, and with a long track record of making people better individuals who allow the religion to do its work in them. And by virtue of being old, such a religion would hve the added advantage of having the bugs worked out.

Soooo, this would include Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Jainism, and Buddhism?

GerTzedek said:
The idea of following whatever the latest popular guru has to say is just unthinkable to me.

As it is to me also, but I would still listen to his words. It is fine to have, cultivate, and nourish the flowers within your own garden, but there may yet be a rare and precious flower outside of your own world, possibly even found growing in a pile of ordure.

GerTzedek said:
And while I may be smart and educated, I've made enough disastrous mistakes i my life to know that my own intellect cannot be sufficiently trusted.

Making mistakes is not derived solely from intelligence or education, nor is it a product of religious choices. Misstaykes happen becaws we is hewman and imperfekt.

Regards,
-- Druweid

sidhe · May 9, 2008

Eudaimonist said:
It has been said that one shouldn't reinvent the wheel, but when one needs to get to the Moon, rockets seem to have an edge over wheeled vehicles.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Only until they build that bridge. Y'know...the one that revolves around the earth, so as to keep the connection to the moon constant? Then we can drive, and get all the green cheese we want!

Eudaimonist · May 9, 2008

sidhe said:
Only until they build that bridge. Y'know...the one that revolves around the earth, so as to keep the connection to the moon constant? Then we can drive, and get all the green cheese we want!

Don't you go reinventing the bridge!

eudaimonia,

Mark

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