3 Questions For Evolutionists and 3 Points Which Destroy Evolution

MrGoodBytes

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I didn't say the old testament was written by jesus' disciples, and yes I would be sacrificing my faith to believe in it, I just can't pick out of the bible what I want to believe in. Cause it says God created man on The sixth day. and evolution says this is an old planet billions of years old.
When we consider the possibility that God used evolutionary processes to create over millions of years, we are faced with serious consequences: the Word of God is no longer authoritative, and the character of our loving God is questioned.
The Bible also tells you to kills homosexuals, gives advice on how to treat your slaves without ever questioning slavery itself and forbids wearing clothing made from two kinds of fabric. I'm pretty sure you don't consider these things authoritative, even though they are explicitly mentioned as such.
 
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Split Rock

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Technocrat2010

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I didn't say the old testament was written by jesus' disciples, and yes I would be sacrificing my faith to believe in it, I just can't pick out of the bible what I want to believe in. Cause it says God created man on The sixth day. and evolution says this is an old planet billions of years old.
When we consider the possibility that God used evolutionary processes to create over millions of years, we are faced with serious consequences: the Word of God is no longer authoritative, and the character of our loving God is questioned.
This assumes a sola scriptura approach. Please demonstrate where sola scriptura is supported.
 
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Loudmouth

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I just can't pick out of the bible what I want to believe in.

Why not? We do live in a free country, afterall.

and evolution says this is an old planet billions of years old.

No it doesn't. Galaxies billions of light years away say this. Large amounts of lead in zircons say this. The world around us tells us it is very old. Either your God was lying in his book or he is lying in his creation. Which is it?

When we consider the possibility that God used evolutionary processes to create over millions of years, we are faced with serious consequences: the Word of God is no longer authoritative, and the character of our loving God is questioned.

Actually, your interpretation of the Bible is not authoritative. I no more expect the world to be 6,000 years old than I expect to find the fossil remains of the Prodigal Son.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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I didn't say the old testament was written by jesus' disciples, and yes I would be sacrificing my faith to believe in it, I just can't pick out of the bible what I want to believe in. Cause it says God created man on The sixth day. and evolution says this is an old planet billions of years old.
When we consider the possibility that God used evolutionary processes to create over millions of years, we are faced with serious consequences: the Word of God is no longer authoritative, and the character of our loving God is questioned.
Yet his ascribing of the death penalty to a number of seemingly arbitrary acts doesn't even make you blink? You don't wonder why a loving god would permit slavery, wipe our entire cities (and even the globe), demand sacrifices, enforce prejudice, etc? :sigh:
 
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FishFace

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I didn't say the old testament was written by jesus' disciples, and yes I would be sacrificing my faith to believe in it, I just can't pick out of the bible what I want to believe in. Cause it says God created man on The sixth day. and evolution says this is an old planet billions of years old.
When we consider the possibility that God used evolutionary processes to create over millions of years, we are faced with serious consequences: the Word of God is no longer authoritative, and the character of our loving God is questioned.

You can't just pick out of the bible what you want to believe in? Please read this, which my mother, a methodist minister, used as the basis for a sermon on homosexuality.

"Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:
Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim"

If you can't "pick out" what you want to believe in, then you have quite some explaining to do here, I should think - which of the referred laws do you keep, and, for those which you don't keep, I would like to see the mental gymnastics required to believe that isn't "picking out" bits of the bible.
As far as I'm concerned, if you don't adhere to a law expressly given, then you've picked it out.
 
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keith99

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You can't just pick out of the bible what you want to believe in? Please read this, which my mother, a methodist minister, used as the basis for a sermon on homosexuality.

"Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:
Dear Dr. Laura:​
...
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?​

(Lev. 20:14)​
....
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.​

Your devoted fan,
Jim"​


If you can't "pick out" what you want to believe in, then you have quite some explaining to do here, I should think - which of the referred laws do you keep, and, for those which you don't keep, I would like to see the mental gymnastics required to believe that isn't "picking out" bits of the bible.​


As far as I'm concerned, if you don't adhere to a law expressly given, then you've picked it out.​

It is OK to play football! Pigskin has only been an expression realted to what footballs used to be made of for decades now.

But no Saturday games. And remember if involved in a Friday game you have to be home before dark. (And if you bearly make it home no shower til after dark on Saturday).

EDIT:

I'm pretty sure a bath is OK as long as it is drawn before sunset, and I'm sure any sane wife would have it ready to avoid the annoyance of a Husband that smells like a pig (except perhaps at that time of the month when she doesn't have to deal with him anyway).
 
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POSW

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It is OK to play football! Pigskin has only been an expression realted to what footballs used to be made of for decades now.

But no Saturday games. And remember if involved in a Friday game you have to be home before dark. (And if you bearly make it home no shower til after dark on Saturday).

EDIT:

I'm pretty sure a bath is OK as long as it is drawn before sunset, and I'm sure any sane wife would have it ready to avoid the annoyance of a Husband that smells like a pig (except perhaps at that time of the month when she doesn't have to deal with him anyway).
Why? Football isn't work.

In fact, as a Conservative Jew, I'd argue that because many things that used to take much work now take very little, those religious laws should be changed to fit reality. I don't get how turning on a light or a faucet constitutes "work".
 
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MoonLancer

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e Word of God is no longer authoritative, and the character of our loving God is questioned.

All you need to do is read the old testament to question if your God is loving. If you still think that God is loving, then I must question, do YOU even know what love is?
 
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EnemyPartyII

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I didn't say the old testament was written by jesus' disciples, and yes I would be sacrificing my faith to believe in it, I just can't pick out of the bible what I want to believe in. Cause it says God created man on The sixth day. and evolution says this is an old planet billions of years old.
When we consider the possibility that God used evolutionary processes to create over millions of years, we are faced with serious consequences: the Word of God is no longer authoritative, and the character of our loving God is questioned.
or, even more simply, the Bible isn't the word of God.

The Bible never makes any such claim, I'm at a loss as to why you do
 
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Chalnoth

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I didn't say the old testament was written by jesus' disciples, and yes I would be sacrificing my faith to believe in it, I just can't pick out of the bible what I want to believe in. Cause it says God created man on The sixth day. and evolution says this is an old planet billions of years old.
When we consider the possibility that God used evolutionary processes to create over millions of years, we are faced with serious consequences: the Word of God is no longer authoritative, and the character of our loving God is questioned.
So, you're afraid it's actually wrong, apparently.

Aside from the fact that everybody who believes in the Bible picks and chooses what to believe, as others have mentioned, what you have outlined here is no reason whatsoever to not inquire as to the truthfulness of evolution. Besides, church fathers have since antiquity urged followers not to take passages like the first bits of Genesis literally, long before evolution or indeed evidence of an old Earth ever arrived on the scene. See Augustine of Hippo, for example.

Look, this debate isn't about your religion. Or at least, it shouldn't be about your religion. It's about what the evidence says. And the evidence is completely conclusive that evolution happens, and the Earth is quite old. I urge you to learn about the evidence, and why it is so exceedingly strong, independent of your religious beliefs. Those you can figure out later.
 
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stevendrake

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1) The first life form probably took the form of a self-catalyzing molecular system. No reproductive system necessary.

2) The branch of biology that deals with the origin of this first life form is known as abiogenesis, and is not part of the theory of evolution. This first life form could have been literally miracled out of thin air by any god you care to name and it would not affect the validity of evolution one iota.
You know what about this resembles so many of these posts? "Probably" Such a convenient word. How about a little more "Kodak moments" and a little less "liberties"?

Also, I would consider it the same as evolution. Just because it is convenient for you to call it abiogenesis doesn't make it hold water but I would more likely call it "I don't know?" Kodak baby.

God bless
 
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Bombila

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You know what about this resembles so many of these posts? "Probably" Such a convenient word. How about a little more "Kodak moments" and a little less "liberties"?

Also, I would consider it the same as evolution. Just because it is convenient for you to call it abiogenesis doesn't make it hold water but I would more likely call it "I don't know?" Kodak baby.

God bless

The fact that you 'consider' abiogenesis to be the same as evolution does not make it true. Wikipedia has a pretty good overview on the subject of abiogenesis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

Theistic evolution supporters most likely believe God to be responsible for sparking the first life forms by whatever process. Non theists may think early earth conditions were responsible, without any need for external interference.

Both theist evolution supporters and non theist evolution supporters accept that once life forms existed, evolution defined how those life forms developed and speciated.

For evolution to be factual, please note it does not matter whether God or abiogenesis caused the first life forms to emerge.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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You know what about this resembles so many of these posts? "Probably" Such a convenient word. How about a little more "Kodak moments" and a little less "liberties"?
We say 'probably' because we are not certain either way. Science does not make definitive statements, only probabalistic one.
It is probable that my microwave cooks food using EM radiation, and not magic fire gnomes. It is probable that atoms exist, but it may be those pesky fire gnomes tricking us. We are not 100% sure, but then, we never said we were. But that said, it is proven beyond reasonable doubt. The evidence is literally overwhelming.

Also, I would consider it the same as evolution.
Why? Evolution is defined as a change in allele frequency in a population over time. Abiogenesis is defined as life forming from non-life. How are the two at all alike? I mean, you can set up your own definitions, but please make this clear: we wouldn't want to think you were fallaciouslly equivocating, would we?

Just because it is convenient for you to call it abiogenesis doesn't make it hold water but I would more likely call it "I don't know?" Kodak baby.
Well, it is abiogenesis, and it isn't evolution. The two have explicit definitions, and any idiot can see they aren't the same thing.
 
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flatworm

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You know what about this resembles so many of these posts? "Probably" Such a convenient word. How about a little more "Kodak moments" and a little less "liberties"?

Science has no firm answers as to how the first form of life came about. Religion has no answers for it either, save some wild stories ancient people made up.

From what we do know, science already has some potential explanations for questions the world's religions didn't even know existed, like why all known life uses only left-handed amino acids. Other burning questions of abiogenesis included whether self-replication, metabolism, or encapsulation came first. Science can already provide more explanatory power than any religious belief. Why should we abandon it?

Also, I would consider it the same as evolution. Just because it is convenient for you to call it abiogenesis doesn't make it hold water but I would more likely call it "I don't know?" Kodak baby.

You can choose to call the Atomic theory the same thing as the Theory of Gravity, but it doesn't mean you'd make an ounce of sense. Feel free.
 
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