If Christian majorities controlled civil laws.... what would they be?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nadiine

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2006
52,800
48,336
Obama: 53% deserve him ;)
✟292,219.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It just won't work. For every person who wants to ban inappropriate content, you have someone who wants to stone people for reading fantasy novels.
thats exactly what I forsee happening... each new ban leads to another that's somehow related to it or leads to it in some way.
You end up back in those Salem witch hunt days eventually if you don't watch it.

I think we as Christians should try to see what the nonChristians (ie. atheists, agnostics, pagans) fear so much; Christians getting control & power over legislation & that's what it ends up going back to.
Gosh, I'm a Christian and I wouldn't even want it so rigid. It tends to create a religious spirit --
but yet, we're to hate evil at the same time and PUSH for what is Godly and righteous.
 
Upvote 0

IisJustMe

He rescued me because He delighted in me (Ps18:19)
Jun 23, 2006
14,270
1,888
Blue Springs, Missouri
✟23,494.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Should Christians seek political power at all? The question is misleading. It brings to mind a negative image of government and politics, and it also implies that the freedom to evangelize is secure and could never be taken away. If the first part of the question is actually, "should Christians corrupt themselves with the seedy side of politics?" or "should Christians revert to the unethical, unscriptural practices of modern day 'politicians'?" the answer is obviously "no."

If, however, the question is about political involvement and participation in general, there is a different answer: Christians should seek political participation and representation as they go about their duties of evangelizing the world. Without this participation and representation, there is no assurance that the freedom to evangelize will remain secure. Can we maintain the fundamental freedoms and liberties we enjoy while standing apart from the political process? The political and social trends of the last generation should offer clear warnings that freedom and liberty require diligent care and attention -- especially by the Christian community.

There are numerous perspectives on why Christians should be involved in the political process: Duty, responsibility, natural leadership, love of our brothers and sisters, a basic compassion for mankind, etc. One perspective that too often goes unnoticed is the concept of submission to government. Submission to our governing structures requires participation. As Paul wrote to the Romans:

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities
For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist
are established by God. (Romans 13:1)

The first seven verses of this chapter provided a fundamental blueprint for the relationship between the Christians in Rome and the existing governing authority -- the power of Rome. The Roman Christians exercised no political power in the secular order of things; participation was extremely limited. As Christians today, we lread Paul's letter, and other portions of Scripture, especially Mark 12, I Timothy 2:1-3, Acts 5, and I Peter 2:17, to determine our own relationship to government. Americans enjoy certain rights and liberties that would seem foreign to early Christians. Therefore, trusting that God offers Biblical provision for our modern situation, we apply the principles He has given. As we read in Romans, one of those principles is submission to governing authority.

In the American governing system, submission demands participation. Whether we like it or not, American citizens are participants in the American governing structure. No one is exempt from participation. It is involuntary. Citizens are assessed taxes; they are counted in the census; they are in government computer systems at all levels; they send their children to government-run schools; they are, in one way or another, participants in the government.

Working from the premise that we are all participants, political involvement is not a matter of seeking power. It is a matter of being fairly represented as we participate in government. To that extent, we must respect others' views who are also represented by government and are equally involuntary participants. That does not mean accepting those views opposing ours as necessarily valid, that simply means acknowledging that the holders of those views do not believe as we do. There will be differences of opinion, and legislating biblical principles into civil and criminal law has already been done, for the most part. Our system is said to rest on Roman law, but in truth Roman law was almost exclusively taken from the Mosaic Law. The proper level of biblical influence is already in the US Constitution. It is wise that the Founding Fathers were so insistent on states' rights. This i where we should be concentrating our efforts to outlaw abortion, euthenasia, gar marriage, etc. As we object to secular morality being foisted upon us, we should abhor the foisting of our morality on the secular world. Federal laws and courts should not be activist in forcing morality on the nation as a whole, since there is a huge collection of differing concepts of morality nationwide.

The issues of abortion, euthenasia, gay marriage, etc., are not matters to be decided nationally, but locally, as we go back to my point of acknowledging that there are differences of opinion. When federal law encroaches on states' rights, then we need to make our voices heard in resisting efforts to legislate their morals on us just as we should not legislate our morals on them.

So, as we participate, we have the opportunity of voting for our elected officials and of ensuring adequate choices as we vote. If we truly believe our government was divinely ordained and instituted, this luxury and opportunity should be enjoyed and exercised.

What does it mean to participate? At a minimum, it means voting. Voting implies a familiarity with those individuals on the ballot. And this familiarity is only appreciated by understanding the issues of our day. Thus, participation should drive one to an awareness of political issues. This would include social issues, economic issues, international issues, etc. Christians should rank among the most politically informed and astute people in America.

During the time the Founding Fathers were working toward independence and the establishment of our nation, that was the case. The pulpits were one of the primary sources for information. Education was guided by a Christian perspective. Churches were at the center of the political community, not on the periphery. Christians, of all types, exercised political and social leadership. We would do well to look back upon these earlier days, reflecting upon the role Christians assumed in creating our American form of government. Is it not ironic that we question the political involvement of Christians in a system predominately established by Christians? But should we presume to be the moral conscience for the entire nation? I don't think so. Push for our beliefs, but do not force them on others. That is best avoided by working for the various "Christian issues" at the state and local levels, and resisting efforts by the federal government to supersede those primarily local and state issues at the state and local levels by imposing nationwide adherence to rulings that go against our beliefs.
 
Upvote 0

Nadiine

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2006
52,800
48,336
Obama: 53% deserve him ;)
✟292,219.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We're supposed to lead by Example, not by Law.
I don't fully agree with that. In that case, we have to be helpless victims of complete lawlessness and just shut up and sit by & take it.

We shouldn't be fighting legal abortion? If we don't who does?
 
Upvote 0

IisJustMe

He rescued me because He delighted in me (Ps18:19)
Jun 23, 2006
14,270
1,888
Blue Springs, Missouri
✟23,494.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
We shouldn't be fighting legal abortion? If we don't who does?
I don't know if that's directed to my post or not, but if it is, that's not what I said. In my years of discussing and fighting abortion, I've come to the conclusion that it is not a national issue. As I said, we object to secular morality being forced on us. It is no less distasteful and every bit as wrong for us to force our morality on others. That might be a bitter pill to swallow for some, but it is nonetheless correct. It is much easier to manage these issues at the local and state level, while at the same time directing our national efforts towards keeping the federal government away from legislating morality by violating states' rights.
 
Upvote 0

Nadiine

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2006
52,800
48,336
Obama: 53% deserve him ;)
✟292,219.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I don't know if that's directed to my post or not, but if it is, that's not what I said. In my years of discussing and fighting abortion, I've come to the conclusion that it is not a national issue. As I said, we object to secular morality being forced on us. It is no less distasteful and every bit as wrong for us to force our morality on others. That might be a bitter pill to swallow for some, but it is nonetheless correct. It is much easier to manage these issues at the local and state level, while at the same time directing our national efforts towards keeping the federal government away from legislating morality by violating states' rights.
K... so let's analyze this... the one who remains silent & neutral always LOSES to the secular will.
INaction, is still action being taken to provide a different outcome.

So when there are 2 opposing worldviews vying for the control of morality over a city/state/country... Christians are to automatically vacate the voting booth becuz they're Christians and have no right pushing their morals onto the secular?

Isn't it the seculars who are also forcing their morals onto US? So why is that legitimate and right? What scripture tells us to stay out of moral influence in the world?
It's one thing to lose a vote, it's another thing to stay home on the couch watching the 6 oclock news whining about evil escalating and wonder why people are so morally bankrupt.

I have never believed God calls us into battle to go sit on the sidelines of politics to let Satan run the world without trying to promote righteousness. If we don't, who will?

Lastly, morality (incl. abortion) is and has always been legislated nationally - it's what protects people and society from predators of all kinds among other things.
If you don't believe it should be national, that's fine - but it still currently is.

I cant' help but think God isn't pleased by us ignoring infanticide on a national level IF we are able to gain power to overturn it. I don't see a good Samaritan turning a blind eye to something so heinous.

:)
 
Upvote 0

Psalms34

◄♫♪♫ תהלים ♫♪♫►
Nov 20, 2004
5,745
391
Southern Calif
✟22,982.00
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Constitution
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

How many of the founding fathers were Christians as well as ordained ministers? I missed seeing the laws they enacted regarding the burning of witches and controversial reading material.

I guess the only thing we truly learn from history, is that we learn nothing from history.
 
Upvote 0

IisJustMe

He rescued me because He delighted in me (Ps18:19)
Jun 23, 2006
14,270
1,888
Blue Springs, Missouri
✟23,494.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
K... so let's analyze this... the one who remains silent & neutral always LOSES to the secular will.
INaction, is still action being taken to provide a different outcome.
You're not reading what I'm saying Nadine. I didn't say "Stay silent." I said, "It's not a national issue. It's a local and state issue."
 
Upvote 0

Nadiine

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2006
52,800
48,336
Obama: 53% deserve him ;)
✟292,219.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
K... so let's analyze this... the one who remains silent & neutral always LOSES to the secular will.
INaction, is still action being taken to provide a different outcome.[/qote]You're not reading what I'm saying Nadine. I didn't say "Stay silent." I said, "It's not a national issue. It's a local and state issue."
I'm not sure why it isn't a national issue?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Lightbearer3

Veteran
Apr 21, 2007
2,053
91
✟17,630.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There is no constitutional grounding for such a "separation" as it is currently interpreted, which is to say the courts are trying to enforce freedom from religion as opposed to freedom of religion.

I agree. :thumbsup:

If Christians had all the political power, I would still want a limited constitutional republic (never mind how far away from that we've gotten) that does for the people only what they cannot do for themselves via the free market and voluntary associations. Neither should it determine their religion or their morals. That's not what government is for, it's what families and churches are for. In my view, government should be a referee only, not a player in the game.

And further, if we grant the assumption that we're all actually believing Christians, and not merely that believing Christians have the political power, there would be no need for any such laws.

I agree with both of these posts. God lets man choose to love and obey or to reject Him. There are however laws against some of those you listed in Georgia. This was unknown to me until one day I happened upon some of them on a website while looking for information on something else.
 
Upvote 0

IisJustMe

He rescued me because He delighted in me (Ps18:19)
Jun 23, 2006
14,270
1,888
Blue Springs, Missouri
✟23,494.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I'm not sure why it isn't a national issue?
Because the federal government has no right to enforce blanket morals on anyone. Local and state options are better suited to the issue. It is easier for a community, a county or in some cases a state to decide they will not allow abortions, euthenasia, gay marriage. In the case of the latter, several states have done just that. The feds violate states' rights in establishing a nationwide standard that does not suit local opinions.
 
Upvote 0

Psalms34

◄♫♪♫ תהלים ♫♪♫►
Nov 20, 2004
5,745
391
Southern Calif
✟22,982.00
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Constitution
Because the federal government has no right to enforce blanket morals on anyone. Local and state options are better suited to the issue.
Which is to some point why the civil war happened. That's like what Candidate RP is/was proposing with abortion, to make it a state issue, but in the end that could simply cause a great divide. Things like murder (abortion), slavery or euthanasia certainly can and should be enforced on the federal level, though in agreement with the majority vote of the people of the states from what the elected official manage to draft out (not a pork belly midnight vote :p ).
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.