Not sure what to believe anymore

wblastyn

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I was raised in a fundementalist, Pentecostal, Christian household. I believed in a literal Genesis (creationism, Noah's Ark, etc) until around my late teens, when I began to learn more about science.

I accepted evolution, etc and my beliefs in a literal Genesis fell away. However, it hasn't just stopped there, my beliefs in things like Satan, hell, etc have also gradually fallen away. Now I'm left wondering what I truely believe, whether I believe in Christianity at all anymore.

When I'm sitting in church listening to the sermon, a lot of things that the pastor says, that I used to believe, just seem plan ridiculous to me now.

I'm afraid this gradual process will eventually lead to atheism, which means giving up what I have believed for so many years, and having to face likely disappointment from my family (and possibly hostility).

Tbh, I felt fine about this whole process when it seemed to be happening naturally, it alsmost felt like I was an outside observer just wanting the process happen, rather than having an actualy role in it. But this past week or so I've been actively seeking out information atheism, I even bought The God Delusion, and I've been feeling physically sick and depressed about the whole thing.

Well that's all have to say, I just wanted to talk about this with Christians, who I know will be supportive, and who won't start blaming Satan for causing my doubt.
 

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You know, I think it is pretty common for those who have been brought up in a Christian home to go through something like this...

I'm not going to preach... I have been there, and I know how much it hurts to feel that what you thought was your foundation is crumbling away.
All I would say is... go with it, explore, learn, see where it takes you.

Because, if God is truly God, it will bring you back, with a mature faith...

And if He isn't.... well... perhaps it is better to know!

Personally, I found Him waiting at the end of my journey through the alternatives.:)
 
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spinningtutu

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I was raised in a mix of Fundamentalist/Pentecostal/Charismatic myself... over 20 yrs... so I can certainly relate to that aspect.

I went through a time period of deep skepticism/doubt... Actually I went evil for a few years. And it was through that evil that I became re-convinced of the supernatural world. But that path led nowhere good.

So, now, I'm at a place of trying to be reconciled with the faith of my youth. So that's where I am at.

But we all have different spiritual journeys... and given mine, I'm sure as heck not gonna be judgmental of anyone elses. Whatever path your journey may take you on... my prayers are with you.
 
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desmalia

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You know, I think it is pretty common for those who have been brought up in a Christian home to go through something like this...

I'm not going to preach... I have been there, and I know how much it hurts to feel that what you thought was your foundation is crumbling away.
All I would say is... go with it, explore, learn, see where it takes you.

Hey there. You're friendly fundamentalist (though non-pentecostal) neighbor here. I totally agree with the above sentiments. Keep on exploring and questioning, and don't give up. I also encourage you to seek more than strictly Atheist authors, though that may be what you're drawn to right now. An interesting and refreshing counter to that may be books by Ravi Zacharias. He's not exactly a fundamentalist, but his knowledge is extensive and well researched, and at the very least, thoughtful and interesting.

Searching, seeking, and brutal honesty is a very, very good place to start. I encourage it. Anything less is absolutely not the way to go.
 
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Gukkor

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There's nothing wrong or evil about exploring your true beliefs. Just make sure you're actually feeling a genuine desire to explore other options, rather than letting your mind play games with you. Remember that there's nothing "forcing" you to become an atheist; yes, you've let go of a number of your old beliefs over the years, but that has no bearing on the present. There is no "momentum" that has built up from your past decisions that will somehow compel you to relinquish all of your beliefs. You believe what you believe. It isn't anymore complicated than that.

If you're going to look into atheism, though, I would advise that you look to people other than Dawkins. He has little of real value to offer to the discussion, though he has become very skilled at pretending that he does. Just my personal opinion.
 
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Adammi

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I was raised in a fundementalist, Pentecostal, Christian household. I believed in a literal Genesis (creationism, Noah's Ark, etc) until around my late teens, when I began to learn more about science.

I accepted evolution, etc and my beliefs in a literal Genesis fell away. However, it hasn't just stopped there, my beliefs in things like Satan, hell, etc have also gradually fallen away. Now I'm left wondering what I truely believe, whether I believe in Christianity at all anymore.

When I'm sitting in church listening to the sermon, a lot of things that the pastor says, that I used to believe, just seem plan ridiculous to me now.

I'm afraid this gradual process will eventually lead to atheism, which means giving up what I have believed for so many years, and having to face likely disappointment from my family (and possibly hostility).

Tbh, I felt fine about this whole process when it seemed to be happening naturally, it alsmost felt like I was an outside observer just wanting the process happen, rather than having an actualy role in it. But this past week or so I've been actively seeking out information atheism, I even bought The God Delusion, and I've been feeling physically sick and depressed about the whole thing.

Well that's all have to say, I just wanted to talk about this with Christians, who I know will be supportive, and who won't start blaming Satan for causing my doubt.
Our stories sound incredibly similar.

The conservative Christians will often point a finger at Liberal Christianity and say that it is such a terrible thing because it leads to "atheism". That is completely erroneous, but the worst part about it is that we Liberal Christians even believe that too. I believe that Liberal Christianity is just as far removed from atheism as is fundamentalist Christianity. In fact, dare I say, I believe that conservative Christianity has caused more atheists to affirm their unbelief than anything else.

Don't believe that your liberalness equals atheism. I grew up believing that the Earth is 6,000 years old, Jesus is coming back tomorrow to judge the gays whilst speaking Elizabethan English, and hell fire and brimstone will consume those who deny Christ. Well, let's just say, I've come along way. But you know what? I'm so much further from atheism than I was whenever I believed those things.

I think that The God Delusion makes some great points when it comes to debunking religion. In fact I think that it does such a great job, that I couldn't imagine it being inspired by anyone other than God. Oh the Divine Irony. Gandhi once said, "God is truth." He later said that he meant something more along the lines of, "Truth is God."

God isn't something to be believed in. God is something to be experienced. Open your eyes. Look around. That, my friend, is God.
 
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desmalia

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Our stories sound incredibly similar.

The conservative Christians will often point a finger at Liberal Christianity and say that it is such a terrible thing because it leads to "atheism". That is completely erroneous, but the worst part about it is that we Liberal Christians even believe that too. I believe that Liberal Christianity is just as far removed from atheism as is fundamentalist Christianity. In fact, dare I say, I believe that conservative Christianity has caused more atheists to affirm their unbelief than anything else.

Don't believe that your liberalness equals atheism. I grew up believing that the Earth is 6,000 years old, Jesus is coming back tomorrow to judge the gays whilst speak ing Elizabethan English, and hell fire and brimstone will consume those who deny Christ. Well, let's just say, I've come along way. But you know what? I'm so much further from atheism than I was whenever I believed those things.

I think that The God Delusion makes some great points when it comes to debunking religion. In fact I think that it does such a great job, that I couldn't imagine it being inspired by anyone other than God. Oh the Divine Irony. Gandhi once said, "God is truth." He later said that he meant something more along the lines of, "Truth is God."

God isn't something to be believed in. God is something to be experienced. Open your eyes. Look around. That, my friend, is God.
Very interesting and insiteful points, friend. As a fundamentalist, I suppose you could also call me a conservative. And while many conservatives might suggest that liberal Christianity leads to Atheism, I would actually disagree with such a sentiment. Not sure if that separates me from Conservativism or not. Not a problem for me if it does, though. :cool:
 
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It sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous. A lot of the stories are pretty ridiculous, on their faces. They're basically folktales, histories and morality stories filtered down through millennia of word of mouth and re-translations and copying. Maybe try looking for the truth behind the stories, not the literal meanings of the stories themselves. Look at the themes, at the symbolism, treat them like they're a piece of literature you're analyzing. Look at them like they're zen koans, just experience them. Pretend that you're a filmmaker retelling them in modern times. Check out all the angles. I've always liked Crazy Liz's signature: "God is not a liar, but God is a poet."

I don't actually believe that I understand anything. It's fun. More people should try it.
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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wblastyn -- regardless of what you do and what conclusions you form in this process, guess what. in five to seven years you'll be doing it all over again. and again. and again. it never stops. eventually you sort out enough to hammer stakes and hang out a shingle SOMEPLACE, but the searching never ends. and why should it? it's a BIG universe out there. :)
 
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Speculative

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I'd say don't make any drastic decisions or public pronouncements as of yet.

Consider yourself a seeker. I'd say you also might want to check out some Borg, Spong, Tillich, McLaren and throw in a little Thich Nhat Hanh while you're at it (shoot--add some Scott Cunningham, if it suits your fancy :) )

But most of all, don't worry too much about it. Enjoy the learning experience.
 
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DailyBlessings

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Hello wblastyn!

Don't worry. The only path you must go down is the one you write for yourself- and the one which the Lord sets before you. There is no harm in self examination. If faith were not calling you, you would not be afraid of losing your faith. And since it is faith that calls you, you have an advocate to help you navigate the new worlds you are exploring, and call you back into comfort when you are distressed by the words of men like Dawkins.

Trust in God, trust in love, trust in faith, and trust in your own vocation. Seek comfort in the things that give you comfort, and truth from the sources you know to be trustworthy.

And if any item or doctrine of "traditional" faith is holding you back, just let it go. It is better, after all, to lose one arm than the whole body. And you'll find that when your faith is genuine to you, it's fruit will be greater tenfold than what it was before. No human precept is worth the trouble you are putting yourself through right now! Christ is stronger and more alive than the weight of many centuries of human authorities.
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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I was raised in a fundementalist, Pentecostal, Christian household. I believed in a literal Genesis (creationism, Noah's Ark, etc) until around my late teens, when I began to learn more about science.

I accepted evolution, etc and my beliefs in a literal Genesis fell away. However, it hasn't just stopped there, my beliefs in things like Satan, hell, etc have also gradually fallen away. Now I'm left wondering what I truely believe, whether I believe in Christianity at all anymore.

First off ... what you bes going through, every child what's ever believed in Santa Claus goes through. At first they believe Santa bes a literal single person who flies all over the world on Christmas eve bringing gifts to good children. They bes content to visit him at the shops, sit on his lap and tellsy what they want. They goes to bed excited on Christmas eve and wakes up exclaiming "Santa came! Santa came!" when they see presents under the tree that had not been there the night before.

But soon that bes not enough ... they want to SEE Santa at work. They want to SEE him come down the chimney and leave the gifts. They want to EXPERIENCE it for themselves ... so they stay up late hoping to "catch" Santa ... and during this time all sorts of suggestive mental "magic" happens ... they imagine hearing sleigh bells, or reindeer hooves on the roof, and excitedly tell their friends about these "experiences" to "prove" the reality of Santa.

Eventually sometime between the ages of 7 and 9 the literal belief in Santa comes to a halt. They learn enough about how things work in the real world to recognize no such person could really exist, though they still secretly hope they bes wrong about that and he bes real somehow, somewhere. By 9 most kids have accepted that "Santa" bes their parents doing it -- though they will still play along with the "game" because doing so bes fun. After a few more years the game bes not important and both parents and kids may stop playing it at this time and simply exchange their gifts at Xmas outright....

... Then the teenager grows up, gets married and has children, and the game starts over again ... only this time, THEY get to be Santa to THEIR kids and watch the magic happen all over again from the other side. They have learned the secret of the trick so now they become the trickster making the magic happen for their children. :)

During the process, hopefully, belief in what Santa MEANS never actually dies. Belief in the ideals of generosity, of showing love by blessing one another (whether with gifts or other good things we give to each other), of kindness, of spreading joy through being a blessing to others, of rewards for good behavior, of all sorts of things humans deem important morally and ethically, get wrapped up in the Santa game. And whether the Santa "device" itself gets used as the expression of these realities OR NOT, the realities DO exist, and transcend the devices used to convey them from generation to generation.

This obviously bes not a perfect analogy for what you bes going through ... but some parts bes fitting. Your faith bes undergoing a transition from being based in taking stories with mythic elements in them LITERALLY to a more mature awareness of how what bes truly valuable in those stories does not need the child's concretized notions of literality in order to survive and stand and be real on a much deeper level. You can now read the stories for their deeper meanings, and make a transition in your faith onto more solid ground where the shifting sands of literalism and concretism will not cause your "house" (faith) to fall (fail) when the storms come, so to speak.

This bes an excellent time for you to be alive and an excellent opportunity to build on firmer foundations than you have ever built before. You bes now in the phase where instead of being awed by the sleight of hand you bes learning how the trick gets done, so you may awe others and draw them into the mystery. This bes how clergy get made, frankly, and not everyone gets the privilege of undergoing these trials. Don't believesy? Looksy round you. Looksy how many in churches in their 40s and 50s -- lifelong Christians, or those converted whats been in the faith for 20 or more years, even -- still require the concretist literalist devices in order to cling to their faith... how many need milksops and cannot chew meat.... Indeed they bes trials by fire, but fire refines and purges and burns off the dross.

When I'm sitting in church listening to the sermon, a lot of things that the pastor says, that I used to believe, just seem plan ridiculous to me now.
Just like when you became able to process learning at an 8th or 9th grade level, sitting in a class of 3rd graders or even Kindergarteners would seem absurd. Just like once you learned about electron shells you could never go back to the "ball and stick" model of molecules again. Just like once you grew teeth and could chew real meat, you lost interest in bottles of milk and jars of pureed fruits.

You need to find a church which does not lean upon literalism or concretism to preach the message, and which serves spiritual meat at the table for men, not spiritual pablum for babes.

I'm afraid this gradual process will eventually lead to atheism, which means giving up what I have believed for so many years, and having to face likely disappointment from my family (and possibly hostility).
IT MOST ASSUREDLY DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY LEAD TO ATHEISM. Moriah cannot emphasize that ENOUGH. :thumbsup: You do NOT need to fear this process and you do NOT need to despair that you will be forcibly dragged somewhere you really don't want to go. Yes, it might lead you to examine atheism more openly, or even consider it as a possibility. It might lead you to questions that don't have easy or readily-available or ready-made answers pressed out for babes. It might make knowing who you bes and what you believe HARD for a time and shake you with a sense of uncertainty and insecurity. In which case? Welcome to the adult world, brother. :hug:

Tbh, I felt fine about this whole process when it seemed to be happening naturally, it alsmost felt like I was an outside observer just wanting the process happen, rather than having an actualy role in it. But this past week or so I've been actively seeking out information atheism, I even bought The God Delusion, and I've been feeling physically sick and depressed about the whole thing.
Remember -- no human being has the final word on any of this, no matter how conclusively they present their views and no matter how compelling their conclusions seem to you at this time. Something will always come along to stir even the most solid brick house -- and brick houses can be made as sturdily of lies as they can of truths. Logic and reason no more serve the cause of Truth inherently or automatically than hammers build Cathedrals rather than bashing in heads. Like hammers, logic and reason (and the materialist POV) bes nought but tools utterly dependent upon the hand wielding them for direction and purpose, and can equally serve the cause of deceit as they can of revelation.

Blessings to you, and again, sorry it did not address your actual post the first time around. :hug:
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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Excellent advice so far, and I think especially so from Moriah. I would just like to add to the suggested reading list: C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton and N.T. Wright aka Tom Wright. Also Brennan Manning and Rob Bell.

P.S.: Almost forgot Rob McAlpine, who posts on CF and blogs as robbymac. His new book, Post-Charismatic? isn't out yet, but is due to be released in North America sometime this spring. It should be well worth the wait. I'm especially interested, as I consider myself something of a post-charismatic.
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Sure wish Alden Thompson bes not an SDA because he wrote an excellent book on the nature of inspiration as pertains to scripture, but being an SDA he wrote it mainly for SDAs and makes reference to things rather insular to their particular faith. Still if you can parse the "adventisms" or just blip over them it would make an excellent read: Alden Thompson, Inspiration.

Elaine Pagels' works bes excellent as well if you bes not afraid of a serious challenge to standard-issue presuppositions.

Just be sure you keep in mind whomever you read, they all bes humans. Every human has biases, every human has blind spots, every human can err. Even the most godly, honorable, honest, clever, and astute among the species.
 
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wblastyn

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Thank you all for your replies.

I'm feeling better about the whole thing today. I think the reason I felt so bad yesterday was because I bought the God Delusion. I felt this intense guilt, not because I thought God would be angry with me, but because I was afraid that my parents would be. I know how strong my parent's beliefs are, so I don't want to upset them, or make them angry, but at the same time I want to be able to make my own decisions as an adult.

Part of the reason for buying the book was to prove to myself that I could make my own decisions, and to help break the indoctrination that taught me to belief questioning the validity of Christianity was wrong, and that doubt was the "Devil" tempting you, etc.

Whatever I do, whether it be remaining a Christian or deconverting, I want to do it because I made the decision, not because I want to please my parents.

Also, I wonder if part of the problem is with my church's beliefs, rather than Christianity as a whole.
 
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desmalia

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Thank you all for your replies.

I'm feeling better about the whole thing today. I think the reason I felt so bad yesterday was because I bought the God Delusion. I felt this intense guilt, not because I thought God would be angry with me, but because I was afraid that my parents would be. I know how strong my parent's beliefs are, so I don't want to upset them, or make them angry, but at the same time I want to be able to make my own decisions as an adult.

Part of the reason for buying the book was to prove to myself that I could make my own decisions, and to help break the indoctrination that taught me to belief questioning the validity of Christianity was wrong, and that doubt was the "Devil" tempting you, etc.

Whatever I do, whether it be remaining a Christian or deconverting, I want to do it because I made the decision, not because I want to please my parents.

Also, I wonder if part of the problem is with my church's beliefs, rather than Christianity as a whole.

I think it's excellent that you're looking into these things for yourself and that you still care what your parents think (though, of course this has to be your walk and your faith, not theirs). You know, I know someone who recently went through this same phase, and she has chosen to totally reject the faith, church, everything. For her honesty, I applaud her. However, she used it as something to throw in her parents faces with anger, and I know it hurt them very deeply. If she had presented her thoughts openly, but without so much malice, they would have been very sad, but also understanding and supportive. They still love her, of course. But for now she has separated herself from them and in a way, burned a bridge. There was no need for that, IMHO. I really believe she will grow to regret her behaviour towards them. I am encouraged that you are more carefully and thoughtfully approaching this situation.
 
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Very interesting and insiteful points, friend. As a fundamentalist, I suppose you could also call me a conservative. And while many conservatives might suggest that liberal Christianity leads to Atheism, I would actually disagree with such a sentiment. Not sure if that separates me from Conservativism or not. Not a problem for me if it does, though. :cool:

Your going to hell for that thought-you know.
 
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