ok gotcha, I only skimmed over the posts regarding logic & reason - I was hoping nobody was dismissing it as something negative to promote faith in it's place -
No worries . . . fa sho.ok gotcha, I only skimmed over the posts regarding logic & reason - I was hoping nobody was dismissing it as something negative to promote faith in it's place -
thanks
(it's hard to post in 3 threads at the same time & give full attn).
The argument, you are making the bible say something that it doesn't say pressuposes your own argument and basically states "you are wrong." What I'm arguing is that supernatural gifts are given only by God to people to establish new revelation, that occurs in the OT as well as in the NT hence why they are not needed any longer. Thats besides the fact that if they were here we would still have people performing miracles which you cannot PROVE.
When did I say it was above the bible? Scripture and reason MUST go hand in hand. Again you lose either one you lose scripture.
Actually it does matter. He denies the only truth there is, so any opinion or guidance he offers regarding finding "truth" becomes invalid, since he discounts the only one there is.
Amen to that. Truth bes not established by the lawyering of words and arguments, as some erroneously believe. People can even mishandle Koine Greek if they happen to know enough of it to translate -- we often mistakenly believe that the one having the Greek wins the argument -- not always true. Greek bes what? A language. Language, any language bes what? Subject to misinterpretation -- particularly by those who do not dwell within the entire cultural and temporal context in which it arose and thrived.
That's an excellent excuse to disbelieve. Unfortunately, it doesn't hold water. Koine Greek is a dead language. It was the language of commerce and business and was spoken throughout the known world at the time of Christ. Within 50 years of the closing of the canon with the Revelation given to John, the language died. It was replaced by Latin. It has not changed in nearly 1,950 years, and we have more than just biblical texts on which to base our interpretations. You can claim it is "mishandled" all you want. Relative to the majority of modern translations in several languages, you won't be correct.
It has nothing to do with excuses to "disbelieve". Seems like you bes readsy your issues into what others say. Moriah bes not even on the track you go with this here.
FAIL.
The saying in its original form bes this:oh I've heard of the concept... but it normally doesn't come from someone -else- whose speaking FOR the person who's saying it
errrr, is it 3rd person?I'm confused~>
Again you invoke the logical fallacy of the "tainted well". How long do you intend to keep trying to play this card thinking if you color it differently it will wash? It does not wash.
Apologies if you felt it bes implying that about you. It did not intend, while making the general statements about the limitations of reason/logic, to imply anything personal about anyone.
You too! By the way, "IisJustMe", the correct word to use instead of "is" would be "am", assuming English bes not your first language. And if it bes your first language, please drop the pretentiousness and change your username.
You are not making a case from scripture though, but reading something it does not say and telling me to disprove something that does not exist being your in-between the lines commentary, which for the serious student of the bible means it probably is in error since not supported by scripture.
You couldnt prove it back then either, otherwise there would have not been naysayer saying that they were drunk at mid-day.
"voices"?....
well that's a whole other thread I think
I sure wouldn't be jealous of others hearing them, I consider it a blessing that I do not.
What are you talking about? Is true what I'm stating or not? Why did the Jewish leaders ask Jesus so much to show them a sign? Because in the OT any man that was speaking from God had to show supernatural signs to prove they were from God. How am I reading between the lines? How is that wrong? You can cut the rhetoric and get the issues. You haven't shown any scriptural support as to the continuity of supernatural gifts. You are assuming that because you want to have some mystical experience. If you want to play games of push and blame there you go.
Like I said, you want to have some mystical experience, have fun. You can make scripture say whatever you want.
